Toyota set to recall Prius hybrid

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Toyota set to recall Prius hybrid over brake failure

In a further humiliation for the company, the owners of 300,000 cars will be told that their brakes may fail on icy surfaces
Leo Lewis, Robert Lea and David Robertson

Toyota is to order a humiliating global recall of the Prius the hybrid electric car which has become the leader of the green motoring revolution.

In a deepening of the crisis at the worlds largest car manufacturer, Toyota will this week warn 300,000 Prius owners 3,500 of them in the UK that the brakes on their car may fail in icy conditions or on bumpy surfaces.

The news follows hard on last months recall of 8 million Toyotas over fears of accelerator pedal defects in several models. In Britain, the owners of 180,000 Toyotas have been told that their cars may have problems which lawyers in the US claim have led to 19 deaths.

Sources close to the company told The Times that the recall of the third generation Prius, launched last year, will happen within the next 72 hours.

A spokesman for Toyota Europe said: We have been told any action would be global and the question is what we can do to reassure our customers. At the moment we are following the correct processes.

Prius drivers in Britain are already aware of potential braking faults. Green Tomato Cars, a London taxi firm that operates a Prius-only fleet, runs 27 of the Mark 3 Toyota Prius.

It said it is yet to have any problems but is meeting with Toyota GB today to discuss the issue. A company statement said: All of our Mk3 driving avoiding and managing the issues and reporting to us should it occur.

The new Prius is an eco-model which is sold for between £19,500 and £22,600. Its celebrity devotees include Brad Pitt, Leonardo DiCaprio, Jennifer Lopez and Cameron Diaz, but its brakes have been the subject of complaints in Japan and America.

Since last May around 170,000 of the new model have been sold in Japan, a further 100,000 in the US and nearly another 30,000 in Europe. The car has also been the subject of a big sales push in the Middle East.

The Prius scare may not end with the high-profile hybrid. Toyota is still investigating whether the same braking issues apply to other cars in its hybrid range, including several Lexus models that use the same energy saving technology.

Toyota insists that reported braking problems with the Prius are a phenomenon rather than a defect

Under Japanese law, Toyota is expected to register the domestic recall of the Prius with the Government before announcing it to the public.

Not only does the latest scare puncture Toyotas green credentials but it is also likely to heap further financial misery on the company that has seen its share price collapse. The recall over the accelerator pedal is already expected to cost $2 billion (£1.28 billion).

In some countries, such as the US, a full recall is likely. In other countries it is believed Toyota will present the initiative to customers as part of a safety campaign

Toyota president Akio Toyoda was forced into a public apology last week after Yukio Hatoyama, Japans Prime Minister, offered Mr Toyoda harsh advice as to how Toyotas protracted problems were dragging down the reputation of Japanese manufacturing generally and Japan itself.

Dealerships across Japan have been told to prepare for a deluge of Prius owners bringing their cars in for free repair. Across the world, Toyota technicians have been advised that they will have to work round the clock to assist owners of cars with potentially defective accelerator pedals.

The Prius braking problem, it is understood, can be fixed via a software upgrade that may take around an hour per car.

The fault lies in the computer system that links the Priuss two braking systems one conventional, the other part of the energy-storage technology.

Toyota is believed to have identified the braking problems in the Prius late last year. It has already made changes on its Japanese production line.

Prius models built since January have received the necessary software upgrades.
 
Originally Posted By: Troy_Built
the more technology in the cars the more to go wrong.



As I posted in another thread there NEEDS to be a moratorium on any further emissions and safety regs for the next 5 years or so. The amount of increasing complexity is making realiable and affordable cars impossible to produce!!!!!!
 
Originally Posted By: Vizzy
I always had a disgust for the Prius and the typical owner who drives them. SMUG is the word that seems to describe both....

I love seeing the smug being wiped off BOTH faces in this case..

I never will understand the popularity of this hybrid nonsense. I think it is ALL related to the power of marketing and PR folks and the stupidity of the consumers...

Diesel cars car be just as clean (all sold in the USA ARE as clean as the hybrid models today), require only ONE engine, and actually during normal driving get superior MPGs to any hybrid, as you have to drive the hybrid in a very specific way to get the maximal MPG and most of the time most drivers will get much less MPG out of the hybrid.


I say those folks should go out and test drive a new VW Golf TDI or even the Jetta TDI while you'll pay about the same but you get much more car for the money and much better MPG!


I have to agree with you.

While I respect the prius & similar hybrid vehicles as marvels of technology, and not ALL owners of them are smug, I fail to see how, overall, they are any "greener" than a small traditional econobox. They save gas for their size, but the complexity of them, amount of extra energy and pollution put into making them and disposing of them in a "green" way at the end of their lifespans (only time will tell how long that is) makes them a break-even at best in terms of environmental impact.

I'm no tree hugger, but my 15 year old Tercel beats that mileage, even on the highway where hybrids lose their advantage, took a lot less to make and a lot less to dispose of when I'm done with it. Yes, its smaller and less comfortable.

I shake my head seeing people drive their Prius or equivalent up to their enormous house that takes more electricity than 2 of mine and scoff at my "old polluting klunker" as they turn up the AC and sit in front of the 52" Plasma TV. Great way for folks with $$$ to jump into the "green" fad and feel superior without actually having to sacrifice any of their comforts.
 
Troy Built - Is that you dad? Funny- my dad still will not get a car with power windows because "its just one more thing to go wrong and pay $500 to fix"

And Vizzy- I recently saw a Prius trucking down the highway at 90 MPH spewing black smoke. I thought to myself - way to save the world - moron
 
Originally Posted By: Troy_Built
the more technology in the cars the more to go wrong.


True dat. I'll take my good ol hydraulic brakes, a single drivetrain, and manual transmission ANYDAY. You couldn't give me a Prius for free if I had to maintain it.
 
well, if someone gives you the Prius I'll take it. I won't like it, but I'll take it. And I agree with your analysis which is why my Mustang is a 5 speed. Love the simplicity
 
Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
Troy Built - Is that you dad? Funny- my dad still will not get a car with power windows because "its just one more thing to go wrong and pay $500 to fix"



It's not just an old [censored] thing, I'm in my twenties and I don't want power windows, locks, seats, etc. either. If they could be made to last 20 years then yes, but they aren't. If I can't afford to replace an 8 or 10 year old car then replacing power windows will probably sting. And I don't know how much money I'll have down the road.

Options are getting more and more bundled as well. It's hard to get a car with A/C without power locks/windows. I've looked at recent Toyota Matrix models (just one of many such examples) and you cannot get 4WD with a manual trans! There are only 2 major options I value in a car, A/C and 4WD. I prefer a manual trans and manual everything else. 4WD rocks in the snow and I'm just a wimp in summer heat (real Canadian eh?) but other than that I want as much simplicity as possible and total control of the car. It's almost as if the automakers look at lack of these options as purely financial and not preference. How many stickshift drivers do you know that switch to auto just because they got a raise? Or vice versa when times are tough? I don't like ABS or traction control either because I'm not in control and can't always tell exactly what the car will do when they kick in. Sometimes sliding a little on purpose will avoid a collision, especially in winter driving.

Over-computerization of cars is exactly what caused both of Toyota's recent issues, maybe on a car like the Prius its unavoidable, but on base model Corollas and Camrys what does a fly-by-wire throttle really accomplish? It takes away yet more driver-car and driver-road feel and puts you at the mercy of another electronic part.

Maybe if drivers were taught in simple cars to enjoy shifting gears, feeling the road and the bumps, and just listening to their engines rev they would be captivated enough by the experience to put the blackberry, the burger and the makeup down, and enjoy the experience of DRIVING. Too many people view cars as an appliance rather than a pastime and driving as a boring chore rather than a thrill and how can you blame them when most modern cars are designed to isolate the driver from all road noise, bumps & other feedback and take care of all the shifting, skid control and thinking for them? They've never tried the real thing.

MAJOR rant there and I apologize if getting offtopic, but I'm sure many of you will agree with me 100%.
 
Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
well, if someone gives you the Prius I'll take it. I won't like it, but I'll take it.


I'll take it and the next day take it to Ford and trade it in.
 
Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
well, if someone gives you the Prius I'll take it. I won't like it, but I'll take it. And I agree with your analysis which is why my Mustang is a 5 speed. Love the simplicity


If someone gives you their Prius, will you give me your mustang?

I'll even throw in a Tercel. It's a 5-speed :)
 
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I think there is increasing backlash against this over reaching computerization and complexity by many consumers and the maufacturers are starting to realize it, but unfortunately instead of desiring to respond to the consumers demands they seem determined to FORCE this nonsense on ALL of us. I think that is why when we post comments against it certain folks here and on other forums seem determined to attack those people as " Luddites" ..interestingly I see this approach used everywhere on all sorts of forums.

My ultimate practical, yet entertaining car with a number of modern improvements would be the 1990's MKII VW Golf GTI 8v.
 
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Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
well, if someone gives you the Prius I'll take it. I won't like it, but I'll take it.


Ha ha.

One more: My throttle is actuated by a simple CABLE! Not a sensor that feeds into my ECU where some whiz-bang algorithm tries to decipher "what my pedal input REALLY means."
 
Originally Posted By: pidster

While I respect the prius & similar hybrid vehicles as marvels of technology, and not ALL owners of them are smug, I fail to see how, overall, they are any "greener" than a small traditional econobox.


That's cuz they aren't! I get 42 mpg in 96 civic averaged out over the past 130k consecutive miles without missing a single record (200k total). As good as most drivers in a brand new hybrid that they'll probably keep for 5 yrs tops.

Originally Posted By: pidster


I shake my head seeing people drive their Prius or equivalent up to their enormous house that takes more electricity than 2 of mine and scoff at my "old polluting klunker" as they turn up the AC and sit in front of the 52" Plasma TV. Great way for folks with $$$ to jump into the "green" fad and feel superior without actually having to sacrifice any of their comforts.


Hey that 52" plasma is energy star! Ha Ha Ha.
 
Is it me.... or is it that most hybrid drivers are snobs (I'm better than you mentality) ?

The same goes for VW drivers down here.
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I'm staying out of this one. I'll only say that for me and my use of a car...ie yearly mileage and daily commute. There is no way that a hybrid could ever make economic sense.
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Is it me.... or is it that most hybrid drivers are snobs ?

The same goes for VW drivers down here.



I think that VW owner's are a different group down south of the Mason Dixon line...Anywhere up north especially east coast, and west coast VW community is friendly and VERY approachable they will talk and are interested in all different makes of cars.
 
Nothing absolutely nothing to do with the brakes actually it's a software issue where the transition from electric (regenerative braking) and the hydralic braking when your going between 15 and 35 miles an hour. It's unrelated to any other issues and isnt considered a safety hazard..
 
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