Toyota Crown takes 0w8 oil

[kschachn]

You have been repeating those three sentences for the last few years and it appears to be your interpretation of the situation. Can you show us any documentation indicating that the recommended grade does not need to be used?

No owner’s manual or warranty book states that the new-car warranty is predicted on grade. The validity of the warranty is connected to damage. An oil of a somewhat higher HT/HS will not damage an engine, film thickness is what protects an engine from damage not the other way around. The use of thinner oils is only for meeting ever stricter CAFE requirements. There are no technical reasons why a thinner oil is required for engine operation. As long as the oil has a minimum HT/HS to prevent excessive wear then it is acceptable for use, but this in no way precludes the use of an oil that is thicker. The only advantage to a thinner oil is fuel economy, other than that there are no advantages only disadvantages.

How about you? Do you have any documentation that shows a certain thinner grade must be used? If there is then it would be political or procedural since there is no technical requirement. What I stated in my post is correct, the only requirement is that an automaker must strenuously promote the grade that is used to obtain their fuel economy results. This is the only “requirement”.

 

[haggler]

Toyota: "You must use 0w8 motor oil. If 0w8 motor oil is not available, you may use 0w20. At next oil change 0w20 must be replaced with 0w8 "

 

[kschachn]

Toyota: "You must use 0w8 motor oil. If 0w8 motor oil is not available, you may use 0w20. At next oil change 0w20 must be replaced with 0w8 "

And you know why, right? If you don’t then seek out the CAFE award letters that have been posted here and elsewhere. It has zero to do with anything technical. Zero.

 

[UG_Passat]

Toyota: "You must use 0w8 motor oil. If 0w8 motor oil is not available, you may use 0w20. At next oil change 0w20 must be replaced with 0w8 "

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/toyota-crown-takes-0w8-oil.363885/post-6356216

The owner's manual excerpt is posted.

 

[edyvw]

The usual argument is RoW allows for thicker grades.

But the warranty is not administered by RoW

Toyota, as far as I know, has language that allows you to use heavier oils if vehicle is used in heavy duty operations. And they leave those operations for interpretation.

 

[kschachn]

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/toyota-crown-takes-0w8-oil.363885/post-6356216

The owner's manual excerpt is posted.

Yes, complete with the "electric oil pump" nonsense, which... isn't an electric oil pump after all.

Even if it were, and it is so fragile that a -30 grade oil would damage it, imagine all the failures here in the upper Midwest.

 

[UG_Passat]

Toyota, as far as I know, has language that allows you to use heavier oils if vehicle is used in heavy duty operations. And they leave those operations for interpretation.

But Toyota doesn't really define "heavy duty operations". They do define "special Operating Conditions" which means 5,000 OCI instead of 10,000 OCI.

None of those include driving on the unrestricted speed limit sections of the Autobahn, which does not exist in the USA.

 

[UG_Passat]

Yes, complete with the "electric oil pump" nonsense, which... isn't an electric oil pump after all.

Even if it were, and it is so fragile that a -30 grade oil would damage it, imagine all the failures here in the upper Midwest.

It's the electronically controlled oil pump, which does exist on the Dynamic Force engines.

 

[sk_pete]

0W-8

HEAVY BREATHING INTENSIFIES

 

[kschachn]

It's the electronically controlled oil pump, which does exist on the Dynamic Force engines.

Yes.

 

[edyvw]

But Toyota doesn't really define "heavy duty operations". They do define "special Operating Conditions" which means 5,000 OCI instead of 10,000 OCI.

View attachment 145224

None of those include driving on the unrestricted speed limit sections of the Autobahn, which does not exist in the USA.

So new Toyota doesn’t have anymore language about using heavier grade?
Also, I really didn’t know autobahn doesn’t exist here. I guess one always learn something new.

 

[UG_Passat]

Yes.

Oil pressure is controlled electronically.

So, a 8 or 16 weight oil pressure will be different from a 30 or 40 weight oil pressure at engine operating temperature, which is around the 100°C mark. So, if the ECU sees oil pressure from a 30 or 40 weight oil, then it would regulate the pressure and flow thinking it's a 8 or 16, then you better hope the thicker film will protect the engine from being possibly starved of oil.

So, if you bring in the car for warranty claim, according AMD, the procedure is to get a oil sample sent out for a UOA to determine if the proper oil viscosity is used or not. If the UOA viscosity doesn't match the weight of the specified oil.... as we say at VWVortex, you are your own warranty.

 

[edyvw]

Oil pressure is controlled electronically.

So, a 8 or 16 weight oil pressure will be different from a 30 or 40 weight oil pressure at engine operating temperature, which is around the 100°C mark. So, if the ECU sees oil pressure from a 30 or 40 weight oil, then it would regulate the pressure and flow thinking it's a 8 or 16, then you better hope the thicker film will protect the engine from being possibly starved of oil.

So, if you bring in the car for warranty claim, according AMD, the procedure is to get a oil sample sent out for a UOA to determine if the proper oil viscosity is used or not. If the UOA viscosity doesn't match the weight of the specified oil.... as we say at VWVortex, you are your own warranty.

The “simplicity” of Toyota.
But then, most of their drivers are oblivious to it, so they won’t have those issue.

 

[kschachn]

Oil pressure is controlled electronically.

So, a 8 or 16 weight oil pressure will be different from a 30 or 40 weight oil pressure at engine operating temperature, which is around the 100°C mark. So, if the ECU sees oil pressure from a 30 or 40 weight oil, then it would regulate the pressure and flow thinking it's a 8 or 16, then you better hope the thicker film will protect the engine from being possibly starved of oil.

So, if you bring in the car for warranty claim, according AMD, the procedure is to get an oil sample sent out for a UOA to determine if the proper oil viscosity is used or not. If the UOA viscosity doesn't match the weight of the specified oil.... as we say at VWVortex, you are your own warranty.

Wait, is the oil pressure controlled or not? Any oil is very possible to be at a viscosity other than what is labeled as the SAE designation. Here in the upper Midwest there are frequent times when many cars never reach their normal operating temperature. So every one of those cars is a violation of the warranty?

Does the ECU control the oil pressure or not?

 

[UG_Passat]

So new Toyota doesn’t have anymore language about using heavier grade?
Also, I really didn’t know autobahn doesn’t exist here. I guess one always learn something new.

Not in the maintenance manual.

Owner's manual always has something about higher speeds... but for the USA speed limits, it's not applicable for the "higher speeds", as people always refer to what about Germany's Autobahn. As top gear referenced in their Best European sports sedan challenge, just because the Autobahn has their sections of unrestricted speeds, it doesn't mean one can actually max out their european sports sedan due to traffic.

Unlike the maintenance manual, Toyota doesn't specify what it means. (HiHy shown). But TGMO even though it doesn't use anything better than a Group III (possibly III+) basestock, it makes up with with a heavy Moly and good chunk of Boron additive package, that probably only HPL matches. But no one as done a TGMO 0w8 VOA yet.

 

[UG_Passat]

Wait, is the oil pressure controlled or not? Any oil is very possible to be at a viscosity other than what is labeled as the SAE designation. Here in the upper Midwest there are frequent times when many cars never reach their normal operating temperature. So every one of those cars is a violation of the warranty?

Does the ECU control the oil pressure or not?

Yes, the ECU control the oil pressure on the variable discharge pump.

See the Special Operating Conditions part about the maintenance servicing. If you frequently short trips during freezing conditions, Toyota says 5k OCI. And Toyota can easily verify this by pulling data from the ECM vs maintenance records from the dealership, as control module data is part of the determination of a warranty repair coverage.

 

[edyvw]

Not in the maintenance manual.

Owner's manual always has something about higher speeds... but for the USA speed limits, it's not applicable for the "higher speeds", as people always refer to what about Germany's Autobahn. As top gear referenced in their Best European sports sedan challenge, just because the Autobahn has their sections of unrestricted speeds, it doesn't mean one can actually max out their european sports sedan due to traffic.

View attachment 145226

Unlike the maintenance manual, Toyota doesn't specify what it means. (HiHy shown). But TGMO even though it doesn't use anything better than a Group III (possibly III+) basestock, it makes up with with a heavy Moly and good chunk of Boron additive package, that probably only HPL matches. But no one as done a TGMO 0w8 VOA yet.

So manual does give owner flexibility to use heavier oil.
I know very well issues on autobahn, and there is trafficking, and there is opportunity to drive for extended periods of time very fast.

 

[kschachn]

Yes, the ECU control the oil pressure on the variable discharge pump.

See the Special Operating Conditions part about the maintenance servicing. If you frequently short trips during freezing conditions, Toyota says 5k OCI. And Toyota can easily verify this by pulling data from the ECM vs maintenance records from the dealership, as control module data is part of the determination of a warranty repair coverage.

This makes no sense.

And if the ECU controls the pressure, then what does this mean?

if the ECU sees oil pressure from a 30 or 40 weight oil, then it would regulate the pressure and flow thinking it's a 8 or 16, then you better hope the thicker film will protect the engine from being possibly starved of oil.

Is it controlled or not? The scenario you posted is an uncontrolled situation, not controlled. The pump doesn't "think" anything. It measures and responds.

The engine isn't going to be starved of oil, that's nonsensical. Even if it weren't, why would any manufacturer do this? Why sabotage every vehicle with this ticking time bomb of an oil pump?

 

[edyvw]

Yes, the ECU control the oil pressure on the variable discharge pump.

See the Special Operating Conditions part about the maintenance servicing. If you frequently short trips during freezing conditions, Toyota says 5k OCI. And Toyota can easily verify this by pulling data from the ECM vs maintenance records from the dealership, as control module data is part of the determination of a warranty repair coverage.

What exactly is the reason for such, to understate it, dumb solution? If this is the only way to squeeze out bit of mpg, then it will be interesting ride.

 

[edyvw]

This makes no sense.

And if the ECU controls the pressure, then what does this mean?


Is it controlled or not? The scenario you posted is an uncontrolled situation, not controlled. The pump doesn't "think" anything. It measures and responds.

The engine isn't going to be starved of oil, that's nonsensical. Even if it weren't, why would any manufacturer do this? Why sabotage every vehicle with this ticking time bomb of an oil pump?

I am having hard time believing that there was a meeting of bunch of engineers and someone said: excellent idea, let’s do it.