Toyota BEV Announcement.

[UncleDave]

Cant wait to see the real world numbers, and what they deliver per dollar spent.

When and if it actually exists it will only be relevant if it's part of the supercharger network.

They need to start spending billions and until we see that begin this project hasn't started.

 

[Cujet]

Solid State batteries represent the holy grail of energy density. Unfortunately, the manufacturing process is very time consuming, requires very specialized equipment and remains expensive. Billions have been thrown at the problem. The technology is now very well understood, and has been for quite some time.

Reading between the lines, this technology will be reserved for very high end, exceedingly expensive vehicles. The average consumer will not see it.

 

[demarpaint]

Writing on the wall? Stepping up? Gaining Experience? This didnt happen overnight to pull ahead of everyone on Solid State Battery announcement. With less than or equal to 1% of vehicles on the road being EVs maybe it's Toyota ahead of everyone else doing things the correct way by taking the long term view. Solid state batteries will leave everyone in the dust, more so companies exposed to only EV manufacturing like Tesla.
With that said I guess everyone else will be copying them ...

• The new unit, named BEV Factory, is aiming to produce electric vehicles with a range of 1,000 kilometers.
• BEV Factory will introduce a full lineup of battery electric vehicles with “next generation” batteries from 2026.

Maybe in the next 5-10 years Toyota will be #1 in EV sales world wide too. I'm sure they might be exploring other battery technology too with the cost conscience consumer in mind.

 

[PimTac]

Toyota Teases Crown Electric Sedan

CLICK HERE
View attachment 161197
And in aerodynamics, the company promises to take advantage of boundary layer control knowledge—from the hypersonic aerodynamic work of rockets—to “reduce aerodynamic drag without being restricted by the shape of the car.”

The company also noted technology it’s developing with supplier Denso that incorporates silicon carbide wafers for 50% less power loss—boosting efficiency by 10%.

The shape of the Crown looks pretty aerodynamic already. The hybrid gets over 40mpg which is not shabby for a mid-sized sedan.

It will be interesting to see how the Crown develops.

 

[Trav]

It's good to see Toyota is finally seeing the writing on the wall and stepping up their EV or BEV development. However I remain quite skeptical of their claim for range. And while solid state batteries are a nice concept we are probably another decade away from seeing them developed to the point of practicality and cost-effectiveness. That being said, a decade can pass rather quickly.

But, it is smart for Toyota to be gaining experience and capturing some market share over the coming years. I sure hope though that their new vehicle doesn't have the kind of technical and mechanical issues that their Tundra truck has. You'd think they were farming them out to GM or Ford.

Move this to the humor section. Tesla has nowhere near the engineering or technical expertise that Toyota, BMW, VW, MB, etc has in automobile building.
Farming them out to Ford or GM. You cant be serious, that is like resurrecting a couple of dead horses and putting them in the Kentucky derby.

 

[UncleDave]

Move this to the humor section. Tesla has nowhere near the engineering or technical expertise that Toyota, BMW, VW, MB, etc has in automobile building.
Farming them out to Ford or GM. You cant be serious, that is like resurrecting a couple of dead horses and putting them in the Kentucky derby.

Not according to Toyotas own admission - they were absolutely blown away by the telsa model Y

“Taking the skin off the (Tesla) Model Y, it was truly a work of art,” a Toyota executive told Automotive News. “It's unbelievable.”

https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-tesla-model-y-work-of-art-report/

 

[Trav]

Meaningless, it may be a work of art using the Italian made IDRA gigpress that Toyota and many others also have but that does not mean the cant built it to the same standard or do they even want to given the price point.

 

[UncleDave]

Meaningless, it may be a work of art using the Italian made IDRA gigpress that Toyota and many others also have but that does not mean the cant built it to the same standard or do they even want to given the price point.

Its pretty high praise from a competitor and very rare so I'll disagree politely its meaningless.

Burden of proof is on Toyota to build it, sell it, and find a way to make it profitable.

Right now Toyota cannot make as much profit per car as Tesla so they have a long way to go to beat them.

 

[Trav]

Time will tell. The burden of proof is on Tesla that they can continue selling a mediocre vehicle at an overly inflated price while the others put their enormous resources into a more affordable vehicle that surpasses Tesla in build quality which is not very difficult to do.
Normal working people do not like taking in the shorts for a companies excess profit.

 

[wemay]

Not only is Tesla making money on their vehicles, they're making billions selling CAFE Credits. Truly ingenious no matter how i feel about Elon.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/20...oes-tesla-make-money-in-2022/?sh=369007c932c7

"It’s worth noting that Tesla generated about $344 million in automotive regulatory credits revenue during the second quarter of 2022. Zoom out further and we see that Tesla generated $1.46 billion from regulatory credits in 2021."

 

[UncleDave]

Time will tell. The burden of proof is on Tesla that they can continue selling a mediocre vehicle at an overly inflated price while the others put their enormous resources into a more affordable vehicle that surpasses Tesla in build quality which is not very difficult to do.
Normal working people do not like taking in the shorts for a companies excess profit.

Build quality alone doenst make the best selling or performing EV. A perfect example of this is the BZ4X

Burden of proof of performance is on the new guy not the incumbent.

 

[Trav]

The others will improve to the same level in the not too distant future.

Not only is Tesla making money on their vehicles, they're making billions selling CAFE Credits. Truly ingenious no matter how i feel about Elon.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/20...oes-tesla-make-money-in-2022/?sh=369007c932c7

"It’s worth noting that Tesla generated about $344 million in automotive regulatory credits revenue during the second quarter of 2022. Zoom out further and we see that Tesla generated $1.46 billion from regulatory credits in 2021."

This company or any other should not be allowed to sell carbon credits.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The others will improve to the same level in the not too distant future.

"Wait till the big boys get in." Still waiting.

According to Munro and Associates, who do engineering consultation for a living, Teslas are very well engineered vehicles, especially the drivetrain. Teslas are designed as electric vehicles from the ground up.

I love my Toyotas, especially my old Tundra. Toyota makes the best hybrids; one day they will make a decent EV but they haven't done so yet. They kicked CEO Toyoda upstairs to kick start their EV development. Sato-san will get them going in a better direction.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Time will tell. The burden of proof is on Tesla that they can continue selling a mediocre vehicle at an overly inflated price while the others put their enormous resources into a more affordable vehicle that surpasses Tesla in build quality which is not very difficult to do.
Normal working people do not like taking in the shorts for a companies excess profit.

The Tesla Model Y is the top selling car of any kind; the Corolla is #2. The Corolla is a low margin inexpensive vehicle vs the Model Y expensive high margin vehicle. The Model Y is by far #1 by revenue. Yes, time will tell if they can keep it up. But so far they continue to ramp production. The Monterrey plant will be in production in a year. Another plant is expected to be announced by the end of the year. Canada, France, Spain and India are vying for the new plant. Austin will be the most productive car plant in America; right now Fremont is. With 20,000 employees, the Fremont plant (ex-GM and ex-NUMMI) is the most productive auto plant in America.

Not sure what you mean by the "Normal people" comment. Teslas have the highest customer satisfaction rating of any car company; only the mighty Porsche is in their territory. You may not like them but others sure do.

 

[AuthorEditor]

Doesn't it seem like there is always a Holy Grail battery technology just around the corner? I'll not hold my breath, but I think the focus needs to be on fast charging more than range. Three or 400 miles of range is plenty, but being able to charge faster would be a game changer.

 

[PimTac]

Doesn't it seem like there is always a Holy Grail battery technology just around the corner? I'll not hold my breath, but I think the focus needs to be on fast charging more than range. Three or 400 miles of range is plenty, but being able to charge faster would be a game changer.

The best of both woukd be longer range with quick recharging. Just as fuel economy is important to many for cost savings, so will be battery range. As demand picks up for electricity plus the lag in energy production, electricity rates will go up.

Efficiency will be the key.

 

[Trav]

The Tesla Model Y is the top selling car of any kind; the Corolla is #2. The Corolla is a low margin inexpensive vehicle vs the Model Y expensive high margin vehicle. The Model Y is by far #1 by revenue. Yes, time will tell if they can keep it up. But so far they continue to ramp production. The Monterrey plant will be in production in a year. Another plant is expected to be announced by the end of the year. Canada, France, Spain and India are vying for the new plant. Austin will be the most productive car plant in America; right now Fremont is. With 20,000 employees, the Fremont plant (ex-GM and ex-NUMMI) is the most productive auto plant in America.

Not sure what you mean by the "Normal people" comment. Teslas have the highest customer satisfaction rating of any car company; only the mighty Porsche is in their territory. You may not like them but others sure do.

Just give it a rest please. This endless promotion gets tiring.

 

[Torrid]

Just give it a rest please. This endless promotion gets tiring.

Quoting numbers hardly promoting when all the talk that EVs aren't ready for prime time.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Just give it a rest please. This endless promotion gets tiring.

I am not sure why you call it promotion. I am providing facts. I am not sure why you dislike Tesla (maybe EVs) but that's your business. It's fine. But you are posting opinion, not facts.
Your vehicle knowledge is as good as it gets; I am in awe. Regarding Tesla as a car company and as a business, the reality is what it is, regardless of your or my opinion.

If I am posting something wrong, please point it out with data. I have no problem learning; in fact I like it.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Here's a deeper dive from Reuters. It appears they align with the points I have made about Toyota. Additionally, Toyota sounds like Tesla now.
A few points from the article:

• Engineers at the automaker have been considering a reboot of its EV strategy since last year to better compete.
• "What we want to achieve is to change the future with BEVs," Takero Kato, president of new Toyota EV unit BEV Factory, said
• Toyota said it was developing a dedicated EV platform to reduce the cost of new models and a heavily automated assembly line
• It also said it would use Giga casting to cut production costs, adopting an innovation pioneered by Tesla using massive, aluminium casting machines to reduce vehicle complexity.
• Koji Endo, senior analyst at SBI Securities, said he was surprised by Toyota's move to counter Tesla's lead in production efficiency.
• Toyota sold almost 10.5 million vehicles in 2022, and has a market value of about $254 billion. By contrast, Tesla sold one-eighth as many vehicles yet is valued at around $791 billion, a premium reflecting investor belief in Tesla's growth potential.

Toyota will get there, especially with CEO Sato's leadership. Prior CEO Toyoda's corporate strategy missed the target.
It's just business, people. The new dog is teaching the old dog some new tricks. It's called technology.