Toyota BEV Announcement.

[OVERKILL]

Toyota's battery timeline:

NCM = lithium nickel cobalt manganese
LFP = lithium iron phosphate
Ni = high nickel cathode LFP

According to Electrek:

Toyota claimed they would have their first EV powered by a solid-state battery out in 2021, and then in 2017, it moved to 2022 and then 2025. Call me a skeptic, but now they are claiming around 2028.

And, on the solid state battery front, these are (typically) still lithium batteries, but they use a solid rather than liquid electrolyte. Decent little Reuters article here:
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...te-batteries-improve-next-gen-evs-2023-06-13/

Keep in mind, we already have solid state batteries, these aren't something that has never been done. It's doing them affordably, and making them durable enough for automotive use that have been the persistent challenges. The lithium based ones still have the issue of dendrites as well, which is a subject @JHZR2 has touched-on in the past.

This is another, older, interesting article on solid state batteries:
https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a35367888/the-eternal-promise-of-solid-state-batteries/

Of note:

French billionaire Vincent Bolloré was the driving force behind Autolib’, an electric car rental business, in 2011, using approximately 2,500 small vehicles with his company’s own solid-state Lithium-Metal-Polymer (LMP) batteries. It started in Paris and spread to other French cities, eventually opening a branch, BlueIndy, in Indianapolis with the same cars. But the French service closed down in 2018, and BlueIndy in 2019.

The company says its batteries, as seen in the articulated Daimler eCitaro G Bluebus coaches and Autolib’ cars, have covered more than 186 million miles.

*snip*

Tylim pointed out that Bolloré has the world’s only commercially viable solid-state battery packs, and that gives it a lead in developing the next generation of cells, which should be able to function at ambient temperatures. “We’re not there yet, but it’s incremental progress that we need,” he said.

Some of the limits on these solid state batteries, as well as their benefits (25% higher capacity, 10-year warranty) are covered here:
https://www.sustainable-bus.com/ele...d-is-almost-ready-with-solid-state-batteries/

And, while solid state batteries are lower risk of fire, they are not immune.

 

[UncleDave]

Toyota's battery timeline:
View attachment 161486

Always great posts OK.

This chart is really interesting.

Its entire premise is built upon improvements from the 2022 bz4x that (according to them, real world range is closer to half) has 615 KM and can charge from 10-80 30 minute (which is hasn't been show to reliably do))

- but lets say this benchmark data is correct and set that aside -

A 200% increase would be 1845K or 1146 miles, cost 20% more to drive, as well as charge 20% to 80% in 20 min.

Of all guys here I trust you best to check my math.

It would be incredibly awesome if they could deliver this.
I dont think there's a snowballs chance in Hades of this happening.

 

[PandaBear]

"Warren Buffett remains a value investor at heart. His top factor in determining whether or not to buy a stock is valuation. And for the legendary investor, the price simply isn't right with Tesla."
"Buffett won't buy Tesla stock until he's comfortable with its valuation."
https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/05/16/why-warren-buffett-does-not-own-tesla-stock/

As you said Buffett is a value investor instead of a growth investor, and Tesla is a growth company like other tech startup. It is obvious that it is not the kind of company Buffett is interested in yet.

 

[Torrid]

Always great posts OK.

This chart is really interesting.

Its entire premise is built upon improvements from the 2022 bz4x that (according to them, real world range is closer to half) has 615 KM and can charge from 10-80 30 minute (which is hasn't been show to reliably do))

- but lets say this benchmark data is correct and set that aside -

A 200% increase would be 1845K or 1146 miles, cost 20% more to drive, as well as charge 20% to 80% in 20 min.

Of all guys here I trust you best to check my math.

It would be incredibly awesome if they could deliver this.
I dont think there's a snowballs chance in Hades of this happening.

I think the only reason why some EVs don’t perform max charging speeds is charger limitations where some would be faster than Teslas, but a Tesla on a Tesla Supercharger is more repeatable.

 

[UncleDave]

I think the only reason why some EVs don’t perform max charging speeds is charger limitations where some would be faster than Teslas, but a Tesla on a Tesla Supercharger is more repeatable.

Actually I'm going to disagree with that.

Im not saying the charger isnt a main component, but that its secondary to the battery and battery management system in the car.

The chargers can almost always put out more power than the car will actually take for all but a very short amount of time.
It's up to the cars BMS to manage rate of acceptance it manages the thermals and monitors cell to cell variance which is the trick as you cant charge any faster than the hottest cell or pouch in the pack.

 

[wemay]

Just give it a rest please. This endless promotion gets tiring.

So does the endless bashing.

 

[Torrid]

Actually I'm going to disagree with that.

Im not saying the charger isnt a main component, but that its secondary to the battery and battery management system in the car.

The chargers can almost always put out more power than the car will actually take for all but a very short amount of time.
It's up to the cars BMS to manage rate of acceptance it manages the thermals and monitors cell to cell variance which is the trick as you cant charge any faster than the hottest cell or pouch in the pack.

Oh definitely there are many factors at play, all I’m saying is that at least in my area there aren’t many capable of the higher speeds that are quoted. It’s kind of sad but here most are only level 2 in my area. The most powerful CCS in town is only 50kw and there’s only J-1772 and CCS 50kw between here and LaCrosse where I go fairly regularly which is 150 miles one way. There are 3 Superchargers in that run. I can easily do it in a Tesla. If a car doesn’t have a reliable 300+ range and the company doesn’t book me in a hotel(the company approved hotel doesn’t) with EV charging it’s going to take me a long time to get home with anything else. This area isn’t developed enough for it for where I need to get, but Tesla has invested in charging here. There’s supposed to be a 350kw open soon at the halfway point but it’s not online yet from my searching. Maybe that’s changed now but it’s partially why I haven’t bought another EV yet. I am interested in other options if it came available to me.

 

[UncleDave]

Oh definitely there are many factors at play, all I’m saying is that at least in my area there aren’t many capable of the higher speeds that are quoted. It’s kind of sad but here most are only level 2 in my area. The most powerful CCS in town is only 50kw and there’s only J-1772 and CCS 50kw between here and LaCrosse where I go fairly regularly which is 150 miles one way. There are 3 Superchargers in that run. I can easily do it in a Tesla. If a car doesn’t have a reliable 300+ range and the company doesn’t book me in a hotel(the company approved hotel doesn’t) with EV charging it’s going to take me a long time to get home with anything else. This area isn’t developed enough for it for where I need to get, but Tesla has invested in charging here. There’s supposed to be a 350kw open soon at the halfway point but it’s not online yet from my searching. Maybe that’s changed now but it’s partially why I haven’t bought another EV yet. I am interested in other options if it came available to me.

For sure, in a situation where there is an enormous disparity in chargers you'll see an equal or greater effect in the cars uptake.

In the case of an equal arrival at a 350KW CCS and a 250KW V3 there wont be much if any difference after the handshake "ceremony' the CCs charger requires because its all on the car from that point on.

In the case of power being equal which is slicker - not even close. CCS is missing all the data prior to arrival like how many spots are open/ functioning/ what power they might be- or what a wait time might be because there is no communication with the car and the charging network, and you cut the handshake time down drastically to something like 6 seconds.

 

[Ws6]

Seems like big news to me. A 1000km range (621 miles) is impressive.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/13/toy...nnouncing-plans-for-next-gen-battery-evs.html


https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota...tion-and-additional-battery-plant-investment/

Cool, by then I should be a multi-millionaire and retired and can buy the whole Toyota fleet of vehicles. I promise.