Toyota BEV Announcement.

[wag123]

Toyota needs to show the world what it can do vs make a bunch of claims.

It's all on them to regain their position. In the meantime - they are getting their clock cleaned in the EV market and have ceded their prior #1 position.

I hope they do deliver the breakthrough they've promised.

Negative. Toyota is the number 1 auto manufacturer in the world, and has been for quite some time.
https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-manufacturer.html
Toyota does not have a reputation for making baseless claims. For one thing, the SEC takes a dim view of companies that do this.

 

[alarmguy]

You are missing the fact that Tesla stock split, twice.

Tesla stock is down close to 50% from its high.
I’m not missing any facts and I’m not missing any splits. The company was valued almost 100% higher than it currently is just a few years back.
Here is Tesla stock price, taking into account the stock splits, down close to 50% and needs to go up almost 100% to match the valuation in Nov 2021

The price of the stock means nothing, much like bitcoin, until it establishes a solid footing.
Granted like bitcoin it’s a great stock for short term trades and I wish I did but I didn’t have the guts which would be quite normal for something down, even after its current run up, still close to 50% below it’s high.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yes, but, it is the Tesla worshipers that started the argument by bashing Toyota. They should really be applauding Toyota's solid state battery breakthroughs because it will ultimately benefit the entire BEV industry, Tesla included.

Not so sure about that. No one is bashing Toyota and certainly not me. I own 2 of their vehicles. I applaud their efforts in changing EV strategy. The worst I have seen on this thread is posts correctly stating that to date, Toyota has produced nothing. That's not bashing. Talking is different than producing. To date, there is no breakthrough. Toyota is an amazing company and has earned high praise on this forum. About the worst is calling them boring.

 

[UncleDave]

Negative. Toyota is the number 1 auto manufacturer in the world, and has been for quite some time.
https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-manufacturer.html
Toyota does not have a reputation for making baseless claims. For one thing, the SEC takes a dim view of companies that do this.

Vehicles sold does not value make.

Try again.

 

[alarmguy]

Then you missed out as well. I am still kicking my self for buying the car instead of stock in Dec 2018. TSLA is currently up 10x. But I was like so many other skeptics. We all missed out.

We all missed out on bitcoin too or any ground floor stock for that matter.

I’m just not sure how Toyotas triumph with production plans for a game changing battery got sidetracked in a thread about Toyota

 

[JeffKeryk]

We all missed out on bitcoin too or any ground floor stock for that matter.

I’m just not sure how Toyotas triumph with production plans for a game changing battery got sidetracked in a thread about Toyota

What triumph are you speaking of? Toyota's course correction on EV strategy? The market likes it; see my post #4. Has Toyota produced even 1 of these batteries? That would be cool. If and when they do, I wonder what they will cost?

 

[wag123]

Vehicles sold does not value make.

Try again.

OK, i'll try again. Numbers on a stock market ticker does not value make. How is that?
Value and valuation are two different things. Tesla has a high valuation but lower value, Toyota has a lower valuation but high value.
The bottom line is that you have to sell vehicles to make money in the auto business. Tesla found that out. Look what selling vehicles did to their world ranking and profit from 2020-2022.

 

[UncleDave]

OK, i'll try again. Numbers on a stock market ticker does not value make. How is that?
Value and valuation are two different things. Tesla has a high valuation but low value, Toyota has a lower valuation but high value.
The bottom line is that you have to sell vehicles to make money in the auto business. Tesla found that out. Look what selling vehicles did to their world ranking and profit from 2020-2022.

It's ok to say the words - Tesla is the most valuable car company in the world - and by far.

You liking, not liking, agreeing or not agreeing doesn't change that.

 

[PimTac]

The advantage Toyota has is that they have dealerships everywhere so you can go check out the vehicle you like and even test drive it. If a problem should arise you can take it in to get checked out. Tesla does not use this model of distribution. So if your Tesla displays the Blue Screen of Death what will you do?

 

[JeffKeryk]

OK, i'll try again. Numbers on a stock market ticker does not value make. How is that?
Value and valuation are two different things. Tesla has a high valuation but lower value, Toyota has a lower valuation but high value.
The bottom line is that you have to sell vehicles to make money in the auto business. Tesla found that out. Look what selling vehicles did to their world ranking and profit from 2020-2022.

It is fair and important to distinguish market cap from financial performance in the shorter term. Stock price is a forward looking number, quarterly results reflect period performance.
Toyota sells a lot of vheicles; owners love them and continue to buy and re-buy. There's a reason for it. Tesla is in rapid growth mode and their margins blow Toyota's margins off the map. Toyota's top sellers, Corolla and Camry appeal to many people while the Model Y outsells them and generates far more revenue. The Model 3 is close as well. In some quarters Tesla makes more profit than Toyota even though Toyota sell 8x more vehicles.

Regarding market cap (future performance valuation), Toyota and everybody else are barely in the game vs Tesla. It is fair to say Tesla stock performance struggled for a year vs their peak; it is also far to say they are still far ahead of everybody else in valuation.
That's the numbers.
Don't get me wrong, I think everyone is rooting for Toyota; I am. They have made some good corrections and now they have to produce.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The advantage Toyota has is that they have dealerships everywhere so you can go check out the vehicle you like and even test drive it. If a problem should arise you can take it in to get checked out. Tesla does not use this model of distribution. So if your Tesla displays the Blue Screen of Death what will you do?

I'm not sure Toyota agrees with you. Dealerships add cost with little or no value add. No to mention customers do not trust them...
Regarding test drives, you can schedule one with Tesla anytime.
They do need more service centers, that's for sure. Rapid growth is painful.

 

[PimTac]

I’ll stand by my comment. Thank you.

 

[UncleDave]

The advantage Toyota has is that they have dealerships everywhere so you can go check out the vehicle you like and even test drive it. If a problem should arise you can take it in to get checked out. Tesla does not use this model of distribution. So if your Tesla displays the Blue Screen of Death what will you do?

There are few to no cars at the local dealerships.

Toyotas channel wants to charge me above MSRP for the privilege of driving their cars.

Most Americans don't see any value in this model.

Tesla sends a guy to your house.

 

[wag123]

The advantage Toyota has is that they have dealerships everywhere so you can go check out the vehicle you like and even test drive it. If a problem should arise you can take it in to get checked out. Tesla does not use this model of distribution. So if your Tesla displays the Blue Screen of Death what will you do?

Furthermore, you can get any Toyota product repaired/serviced at virtually any privately owned service facility anywhere, including body shops. You can't do this with a Tesla. Additionally, many towing companies won't touch a Tesla.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Toyota is an amazing company that has had an amazing run. I am not sure many would disagree.
And no, my trusty Tundra is not for sale. Someone did ask if I was interested in selling the Model 3 2 days ago, due to the crazy gas prices...

 

[JeffKeryk]

Accidental double post. Sorry...

 

[JeffKeryk]

Furthermore, you can get any Toyota product repaired/serviced at virtually any privately owned service facility anywhere, including body shops. You can't do this with a Tesla. Additionally, many towing companies won't touch a Tesla.

What Tesla service are you referring to? Warsher fluid is about it for me. And checking the tire pressure...
Do you know anyone who has taken their Tesla in for service? I don't.

 

[Trav]

LOL No Tesla Worshiping in this house.

LOL That is the truth. It is beyond sickening.

 

[wag123]

What Tesla service are you referring to? Warsher fluid is about it for me. And checking the tire pressure...
Do you know anyone who has taken their Tesla in for service? I don't.

Teslas will require service and repairs. Unless you intend to buy a new one every 4 years or 50k miles, things wear-out and things break, and after the warranty expires YOU are going to have to pay for it. Maybe you can afford to buy a new one every 4 years, but most of the rest of us can't. For me 4 years on a vehicle is barely broken-in.
ALL vehicles from ALL manufacturers have components that wear out and break. Teslas have suspension, steering, and braking systems just like any other vehicle. And they have power window regulators, power door lock actuators, safety devices, sensors, etc, etc, etc... hundreds of parts that will eventually wear-out or fail. If you are telling me that Teslas are immune to all of this, you are in for a rude awakening. Then there are the on-the-road "incidents" that are not covered by warranty. Do you know how much the Tesla service facilities charge for customer-pay parts and labor service? They are astronomical.
I have a neighbor that lives across the street from me who has a Model 3. He has had to have his car towed to Tesla service twice in the last year. This is how I know that many towing companies won't touch them. Additionally, other than very minor cosmetic paint work, body shops won't touch them either.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Teslas will require service and repairs. Unless you intend to buy a new one every 4 years or 50k miles, things wear-out and things break, and after the warranty expires YOU are going to have to pay for it. Maybe you can afford to buy a new one every 4 years, but most of the rest of us can't. For me 4 years on a vehicle is barely broken-in.
ALL vehicles from ALL manufacturers have components that wear out and break. Teslas have suspension, steering, and braking systems just like any other vehicle. And they have power window regulators, power door lock actuators, safety devices, sensors, etc, etc, etc... hundreds of parts that will eventually wear-out or fail. If you are telling me that Teslas are immune to all of this, you are in for a rude awakening. Then there are the on-the-road "incidents" that are not covered by warranty. Do you know how much the Tesla service facilities charge for customer-pay parts and labor service? They are astronomical.
I have a neighbor that lives across the street from me who has a Model 3. He has had to have his car towed to Tesla service twice in the last year. This is how I know that many towing companies won't touch them. Additionally, other than very minor cosmetic paint work, body shops won't touch them either.

I was referring to scheduled maintenance service, like oil changes. The reason I ask about your experience is, in many circumstances, Tesla sends a technician out to your home. I wasn't sure if you were aware of that.
What happened to your neighbor's car? Was it under warranty?
So far I haven't had to do anything, knock on wood, as they say. I did rotate the tires and add blue water to the ww reservoir. And there have been numerous OTA updates; perhaps some of those did some TSB stuff, dunno for sure.
Regardless, a lack of service centers and parts issues have been a problem for Tesla, no doubt. I think it is fair to say other makes have had parts issues as well. Some Teslas have been totaled out due to long replacement lead time and, as oyu say, prices.
I am not planning buying a car every 4 years. I have more important, at least to me, things to do.