Top Tier gas unavailable at Kwik Trip - what additive to use instead?

[Silver]

If you've already ran that horrid stuff in your vehicle, I'd go ahead and trade it in. No sense in waiting on the carnage.

 

[GoldDot40]

The guy I talked to says the ethanol goes in first and then the gasoline. He says there is a step or 2 in the middle of the process where the additives get mixed in.

It all depends on the loading terminal. Some terminals such as Kinder-Morgan, the ethanol is added 1st, then the CBOB is added behind it.

However, next door at TransMontaigne, the ethanol is "splash blended", meaning the plumbing at the loading rack has injectors that add ethanol in tiny increments during the loading process.

The downside to adding all the ethanol 1st is the possibility of having what we call a busted blend. This is a driver error 99% of the time. How does it happen? Tanker trailers have multiple compartments that vary in size. Ex, my tanker trailer has 5 compartments. 3000, 1500, 1100, 1000, 2600 gallon sizes. Lets say I load 4 compartments...and when I hook up my last compartment...I'm working distracted and accidentally punch in 3000 gallons...but I have the loading arm on my 1500 gallon compartment.

The loading system is automatically going to load 300 gallons of ethanol when I punch 3000 gal. When the product gets to the top of the trailer and hits the overflow protection probe...it shuts the loading process down. I cannot load an ounce more product if I have product touching that probe. So now I have 300 gallons of ethanol mixed with just 1200 gallons of CBOB. That's a 20% ratio = 1500 gallons of busted blend product.

The manifest will have a big red stamp on it that says "OUT OF SPEC". All of our stations advertise 10% ethanol...most of which can/will refuse the entire load. There's only 2 places in this region that will take out of spec or contaminated product...both in a totally different state.

On the flip side, splash blending....it's impossible to have a busted blend in the same scenario due to it being loaded simultaneously.

At all the terminals where I've ever loaded, the additives are splash blended in tiny increments as the product goes on. It may be different in other parts of the country.

 

[volk06]

At Kwik Trip today in Burnsville and the Top Tier stickers are gone off the pumps...

Same in the Des Moines metro area. Top Tier signs have stickers over them. Sent them an inqury and said due to supply chain issues. I asked if this is temporary or the new normal moving forward, they responded that this is the new normal for now . They were the most readily available TT fuel here now. There a sporadic QT, BP here with cenex and sinclair popular in the rural areas. Sad this is my parents in rural Iowa have a better selection of TT fuel than I do in the metro area.

 

[Hoot_r]

While traveling through NC at the end of October, I noticed QT pumps with black tape covering up their TT stickers. At least in that part of the country, QT was apparently experiencing difficulties sourcing TT fuel as far back as last fall.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Top tier won't ever clean as much as people would like it too. In fact there were calls for more detergents at a time no long ago. Find a additive that has PEA and it will surely do the job just fine. I too have noticed at Cenex in Olathe,KS that they weren't able to bring the material to provide the top tier labeled fuels and the notification is one the pumps.

 

[volk06]

Top tier won't ever clean as much as people would like it too. In fact there were calls for more detergents at a time no long ago. Find a additive that has PEA and it will surely do the job just fine. I too have noticed at Cenex in Olathe,KS that they weren't able to bring the material to provide the top tier labeled fuels and the notification is one the pumps.

Probably but it would be nice to not have to use an additive and just fill up with top tier. I take CR with a grain of salt but this article states there is a difference, AAA is the reference for the test. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-maintenance/study-shows-top-tier-gasoline-worth-extra-price/

https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/Fuel-Quality-Full-Report.pdf

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

I'm on my way to get a bottle of SI-1 right now.

If they have it.

 

[Lrobby99]

Thanks to all for this discussion of Top Tier rated fuels, and the lack thereof. Personally, I don't know what those detergents are, but I sure liked using them as opposed to not. I hope this is not another of the "New Normals" we have now.

 

[y_p_w]

Thanks to all for this discussion of Top Tier rated fuels, and the lack thereof. Personally, I don't know what those detergents are, but I sure liked using them as opposed to not. I hope this is not another of the "New Normals" we have now.

The game changer was supposed to be the EPA's mandated minimum performance level, although several automakers didn't think it was enough. I know there are some who obsess of what the detergents are, but frankly the only thing that really matters is performance. The Top Tier requirements are based on performance and don't really care about what's being used other than it works.

 

[Donald]

Chevron is smart to sell to their competitors because it has been the rare weird place I have been that I've ever even seen Chevron. And when I do.. I see the price and I laugh.

20% or so of my income goes to fuel. I could get a smaller car or one better on gas but.. I don't want to, I'm not prepared for a whole new vehicle, I may have the two I have now until I die, I don't particularly like either one of them but, I've grown to respect the one aside from a few small nitpicks I can probably find on ANY car, and the other one.. well 2022 will dictate how that will go, it is being given a chance at reliable service in a way that will save a friend of mine money. Neither one is as fast as a built Corvette (the silly stupid fast ones, with Magnusson blowers) and neither one is perfect but they are mine. Next car, I dont know.. anyways. About the gas. Yeah, buying the cheapest I know exactly where it is, I take such good care of the car anyway I appreciate whatever savings I can get, I don't think "they" are quite through with us yet if you know what I'm saying, somewhere, a group of people that are not us decided we cant be happy and simple things we have come to take for granted need to be challenged.. I'll leave that at that. I predict two more years. Or less.

Anyways, yes I agree the packaging is just ridiculous and I use a funnel and I will give it about 5 seconds.

I always hear people with money talk about Exxon, BP, Shell goes come up a lot and... I just think to myself, Yup. Okay. Fools.... I cant see the price justification on fuel.

Kirkland gas is top tier but if you can find it. Again, I shop by price. I no longer live where the cheapest gas is also the best gas, and I'm somewhat glad because you want to see a circus, go to the zoo.

20% of your income goes to fuel? That is a crazy high percentage.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

20% of your income goes to fuel? That is a crazy high percentage.

I've been driving some pretty serious miles, at least lately.

Probably between 100 and $200 in gasoline for trip so I'd have to calculate percentage in my case.

I would never put Chevron gas in my car.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Top Tier does not make detergents. Top Tier lists a minimum quantity of most EPA certified gasoline detergents, all in excess of the EPA minimum quantity. The fuel depot obviously has the detergents else they could not ship any fuel. And possibly that is the crux of the matter, the depot won't sell any but the minimum of independent detergents for fear of not being able to sell gasoline when they run out.

Is my understanding Shell, Chevron/Texaco, brands with proprietary additives own their additives stored at the fuel depot. The depot can not use those for any other customer.

In decades past a delivery driver may have topped off a Shell station and have 300 gallons remaining. Then he would call Mom&Pop stations nearby and ask, "I have 300 gallons of Shell 87. You want it? Cash,"

 

[Donald]

I've been driving some pretty serious miles, at least lately.

Probably between 100 and $200 in gasoline for trip so I'd have to calculate percentage in my case.

I would never put Chevron gas in my car.

I am glad since we finally moved to no longer put the 6 hour trips from NY to DE on my truck. Filling my pickup with diesel could cost $75. And a lot in tolls.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

I am glad since we finally moved to no longer put the 6 hour trips from NY to DE on my truck. Filling my pickup with diesel could cost $75. And a lot in tolls.

I always try to minimize tolls.

But yes.. the gas adds up. Wowza.

This why I look for cheapo gas and just use additive once in awhile.

Every once in awhile, Sunoco or BP or something will be across the street from a no-name at same price so I'll go to the name not the no name but. That happens about once every.. not often.

 

[IndyFan]

What difference does it make? Can you even tell it drives different?

My Jeep 3.8 can tell fuel quality within 2 tanks. It'll develop slight pinging on cheap gas from Kroger or Speedway. It won't on Shell, Costco, Sunoco or other Top Tier gas. Once it starts I have to run a tank of V-Power and do a few Italian Tune-ups to eliminate it. On the flip side, if I keep running Top Tier, no ping develops, even with no spriited throttle. None of my other engines are sensitive like that, but if you lived with it for a bit you'd be a believer. I'm coming up on 170k miles and 14.5 years with this engine, so its pattern is very well established.

Top Tier gasoline additives have improved, too. It used to develop the ping even after about 8 or 10 tanks of regular 87 Top Tier fuel. Not anymore. Only cheap brands cause it nowadays.

 

[TDW1954]

In the grand scheme of thing, it probably will not make a difference.
So, the lifetime of your vehicle will reduce by 0.00001%.

Looking at the gas quality viewpoint, there should be a minimum standard spec to be followed.
They are not even exactly the same from batch to batch.
Do you believe that the gasoline have exactly the same every time?
You are dreaming of a veeeeeerrrrrrry idealistic scenario.

I guess the same could be said of engine oil.

 

[TDW1954]

Gas is gas.

But oil is not oil?

 

[aquariuscsm]

But oil is not oil?

For the most part it is.