non-Top Tier fuel + Techron every 5k miles vs. Top Tier all the time?
- Thread starter hotpancakes
- Start date
Yes
Just go to a busy gas station,
Re post #20:
Thanks for the answer. I figured it was on the marketer not the maker of the fuel deliverer to the depot.
Some people own 1 gas station and likely don't designate their additive package and others own 20 to 60 stations and might be able to.
~3 years ago, where I am in No. NJ, the Top Tier sticker appeared on many secondary brand pumps.
Then they disappeared real fast.
I bet the stations involved experienced no increase in sales and their owners stopped making payments to TT.
Reminds me of the time I wrote McCormick Spices, then in Baltimore, to ask what was in "Garlic Powder".
The answer I received was, "We use only the finest ingredients in our products".
Thanks for the answer. I figured it was on the marketer not the maker of the fuel deliverer to the depot.
Some people own 1 gas station and likely don't designate their additive package and others own 20 to 60 stations and might be able to.
~3 years ago, where I am in No. NJ, the Top Tier sticker appeared on many secondary brand pumps.
Then they disappeared real fast.
I bet the stations involved experienced no increase in sales and their owners stopped making payments to TT.
Reminds me of the time I wrote McCormick Spices, then in Baltimore, to ask what was in "Garlic Powder".
The answer I received was, "We use only the finest ingredients in our products".
The spirit of BITOG is not with this one.
Too much sense and not enough OCD.
There is no exact formula though. It's based on performance of the additive at a minimum specified concentration. While many get fixated on PEA or other specific additives, there's no requirement to contain any specific chemical.
He deserves a medal .The spirit of BITOG is not with this one.
There's no way for franchise owners to opt out. Everything is done at the brand level, with a requirement that 100% of all gasoline sold under the brand (in a licensed country) be compliant, whether or not individual station owners opt to advertise it.
Be assured, the performance standard applies to all octane grades sold in each of the retail outlets, even if a TOP TIER™ Approved Gasoline sticker is not found on the pump.
I don't know how it works for a brand like ARCO. Apparently the brand went through several owners after BP sold it, but BP licensed it back for certain regions. Right now ARCO is owned by Marathon Petroleum and they market it outside the territories where BP licenses the rights. I imagine that they both meet the requirements independently. It's pretty easy to just buy an off the shelf additive where the chemical company already has test results.
How are prospective fuel additive packages validated to TOP TIER™ Performance Standards?
Fuel Additive companies continually develop new TOP TIER™ gasoline and diesel additive packages based on their customers’ requirements. The additive companies validate the additive packages to the TOP TIER™ Performance Standards at independent ISO 17025 certified engine test laboratories. Data packages are submitted to the TOP TIER Program Manager at CQA. Upon approval by the TOP TIER™ OEM Sponsors, the additive company is informed in writing the package has been approved for use in licensed TOP TIER™ Approved Fuels.
It does what is required.
It’s not the valve face in the cylinder that carbons up in DI engines but the upper stem and “hat” of the valve. When the intake valve is closed and DI fuel injected…no fuel washes the carboned up area of the valve.
Or, is fuel injected when the intake is valve still open?…..
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Fuel is injected when the valve is open.
It's not a "small fee".
I buy my fuel at a local BP, with invigerate
, station because I'm friends with the owner. They were a Top Tier station for a while. Then they weren't. I contacted BP as to why they dropped TT. They said it didn't show an increase in fuel sales and the fee was outrageous. That's coming from a very large corporation.
Went the same route with our local Parkers station and got the same response.
I buy my fuel at a local BP, with invigerate
, station because I'm friends with the owner. They were a Top Tier station for a while. Then they weren't. I contacted BP as to why they dropped TT. They said it didn't show an increase in fuel sales and the fee was outrageous. That's coming from a very large corporation.Went the same route with our local Parkers station and got the same response.
Patman
Staff member
I would bet that if you took a survey of every single person who buys gas and asked them how important it was that they get Top Tier gas, that less than half of one percent of the people would even care. Most of the drivers out there buy gas based on convenience or the lowest price.It's not a "small fee".
I buy my fuel at a local BP, with invigerate
Went the same route with our local Parkers station and got the same response.
On an interesting note which I failed to mention. BP also stated that their fuel formulation didn't change before or after they dropped TT. Interesting...
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
After two rounds of EC30 - and on 2nd round of VRP - I have only cut and tossed very clean filters on this mill … These heads had over 2000 engineering hours - and perform well …
Fuel formulation changes all the time. Especially with commodity base fuel and/or summer/winter blends. But the additive is another matter. BP's addiitive is probably made by BASF. It's also not just the additive, but the concentration. Many chemical companies sell additives that "scale" where they sell the same additive as meeting minimum EPA requirements to meeting Top Tier requirements depending on concentration.
https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/fuels1/ffars/web-gas.htm
Basf Corporation
100 Park Avenue
Florham Park, NJ 07932
(973) 245-6472
Lana Picone
| Additive Name | Certified Detergent | Fuel Type |
|---|---|---|
| BMW Fuel Additive | ||
| Calco Oil Violet ZIRS | ||
| Cyclohexanol (Technical grade) | ||
| EP-132 | ||
| EP-292 (Light Ends Overhead) | ||
| EP-316 | ||
| FG00025M (National Generic Certification) | ||
| FG00040M (National Generic Certification) | ||
| FG00041A (National Generic Certification) | ||
| IMP-ENERMEX 7++ | ||
| Invigorate 1 (National Generic Certification) | ||
| Invigorate 3.0 (National Generic Certification) |
Costco has the most unique additive system. They take a minimum generic additive at the fuel depot (which is guaranteed to be evenly blended by the time it gets to the gas station), then add their “branded” additive during delivery at the gas station. Not how well mixed it is since I've seen deliveries happen during the day when lots of customers were pumping gas, but at the very least it meets the minimum EPA requirements.
At most gas stations, mixing them together might not be a big deal since it's all thoroughly blended well before arrival. If it's at (hypothetical) concentration 0.5% in the tank and 0.5% in the delivered fuel, it should be a uniform 0.5% regardless of how well blended the delivered fuel is. But at Costco they're blending it on the spot. Apparently that's good enough for Top Tier, even though it's possible to get more or less depending on the chaos of the blending process at the intake to the pump.
But yeah - there are some fuel marketers who might be able to kinda sorta persuade their customers that they meet really high standards without having to pay Top Tier for their licensing fee. Costco was doing that at one time by calling it "Clean Power", but only at specific stations where they had set up their dispensing system. That wouldn't work for Top Tier, which requires every branded station provide the required level of additive. But once Costco had that system set up at every one of their gas stations, the Top Tier signs came up immediately.
I do remember growing up, we got a Murphy USA station in town. There was some rebate at Walmart as well at the time, so the savings was really huge. My dad switched to them from our local BP station. He took good care of the cars, followed maintenance schedules, etc. He had never had to clean a throttle body ever, but within a year or so of switching, he noticed a significant loss in performance and took the cars in, and had to have the throttle bodies cleaned. The guy in the shop said he had noticed it in the people getting the Murphy gas. I know it's just an anecdote and also from a long time ago, but he switched away from them and never had problems again. It stuck with me, and I've never gotten non-Top Tier fuel really since then. But fortunately I have Costco and also a lot of Chevron stations around.
This is interesting to see they deliver it at the pump. I'm sure my driving habits have more to do with it than anything but I do feel like I get more variability with my fuel economy at Costco than at Chevron.
Would be interesting to see what BITOGers think is the best gas for fuel economy. I'm sure someone has done some serious experimentation.
Fuel formulations are highly EPA driven and usually all the stations in a region are getting the same identical fuel from the same refineries. The only difference is the type and amount of additive is getting added to each truck load of fuel. The refinery adds a basic, minimum additive package to meet federal requirements. Then, the Chevron drivers add some Techron in the tank before it's delivered to Chevron stations, 76 drivers add whatever additional additives they use, and the generic quickie-mart stations mostly don't add anything beyond what the refinery provides. They're all the same gasoline product, just more or less additives at the pump.
I use whatever gasoline and add Stabil 360 to every single tank.
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