cheapest 91 octane + techron bottle vs 91 octane from top tier station for regular fills?

[apollo18]

hey all i know something similar to this has been discussed but wondering what you would think of this exact scenario

btw i usually fill 91 octane in my vehicle as long as the price spread isn't too much vs 87 octane.

today i was in a pickle was low on gas and usually fill top tier 91 always but i had to pull over at a no name / not well known gas station. as far as i understand it used to be a shell/chevron etc but i guess they rebranded.

i checked the price for premium 91 and it was pretty cheap, like 50 cents cheaper then what i would pay at any top tier 91. i remembered i had a bottle of techron in my trunk so i thought why not make a makeshift top tier premium 91

i usually get my techron on the BOGO deals so it probably only costed me like $6 each.

if i do the math my 12 gallon tank today on this no name 91 octane was like $6 cheaper then what i would pay at a top tier 91 but i added the techron bottle which makes it even. however that is the math based on running a full bottle of techron which isnt the case for maintenance dosing as far as i understand. i forgot the exact dosing for maintenance techron but lets assume its 1/3 of the bottle at the maximum. that would mean $2 of techron each fill into my 12 gallon tank.

which would mean i can make makeshift 91 octane thats top tier for a few $ cheaper then what top tier stations are running for

i know no one will probably have the exact answer to this cuz we will never actually know the diff between how much detergents are at a top tier 91 pump vs in a techron bottle and how bad non top tier gas really is but what do you guys think of this experiment?

thanks!

 

[Olds394]

I run Shell V power and forget it. Final straw is the FM I believe the V power has. Cost is mostly a wash isn’t it?

 

[y_p_w]

hey all i know something similar to this has been discussed but wondering what you would think of this exact scenario

btw i usually fill 91 octane in my vehicle as long as the price spread isn't too much vs 87 octane.

today i was in a pickle was low on gas and usually fill top tier 91 always but i had to pull over at a no name / not well known gas station. as far as i understand it used to be a shell/chevron etc but i guess they rebranded.

i checked the price for premium 91 and it was pretty cheap, like 50 cents cheaper then what i would pay at any top tier 91. i remembered i had a bottle of techron in my trunk so i thought why not make a makeshift top tier premium 91

i usually get my techron on the BOGO deals so it probably only costed me like $6 each.

if i do the math my 12 gallon tank today on this no name 91 octane was like $6 cheaper then what i would pay at a top tier 91 but i added the techron bottle which makes it even. however that is the math based on running a full bottle of techron which isnt the case for maintenance dosing as far as i understand. i forgot the exact dosing for maintenance techron but lets assume its 1/3 of the bottle at the maximum. that would mean $2 of techron each fill into my 12 gallon tank.

which would mean i can make makeshift 91 octane thats top tier for a few $ cheaper then what top tier stations are running for

i know no one will probably have the exact answer to this cuz we will never actually know the diff between how much detergents are at a top tier 91 pump vs in a techron bottle and how bad non top tier gas really is but what do you guys think of this experiment?

thanks!

They don't really claim any kind of equivalence. In any case, there's probably some differences when the pour in additive is used. And obviously some people dump different concentrations depending on the tank size.

I do remember way before Costco had its branded additive, they were suggesting that customers could just add Chevron Pro-Gard additive which Costco sold. Don't recall which version, but it wasn't as concentrated as Techron Concentrate and the version I bought came in a 20 oz bottle. No doubt that it was mostly adding about 1/6 a gallon of Stoddard solvent to every tank.

 

[samven]

I have often wondered the same thing. If I have to go south from where I live there is no Top Tier station within 15 miles and none in the area I usually visit. North of me there is a shell station 9 miles away so I try and get gas their when ever possible but the price difference for the Premium or mid grade is about the same as you, .50/gal. I never really worried about it much until I bought a new car with GDI and read that Top Tier gas can help prevent intake valve deposits even though the fuel does not wash them the engine does leave the intake open as the injector fires.

 

[y_p_w]

I have often wondered the same thing. If I have to go south from where I live there is no Top Tier station within 15 miles and none in the area I usually visit. North of me there is a shell station 9 miles away so I try and get gas their when ever possible but the price difference for the Premium or mid grade is about the same as you, .50/gal. I never really worried about it much until I bought a new car with GDI and read that Top Tier gas can help prevent intake valve deposits even though the fuel does not wash them the engine does leave the intake open as the injector fires.

It's probably not that big a deal if minimum EPA required additive gas is used occasionally. I've certainly been out in the middle on nowhere where I couldn't find a name brand or the price of some independent was just so incredibly cheap that I didn't care.

I've heard that a lot of fleets use fairly generic brands and don't worry about it.

When I get gas these days, it's almost always at Costco so I guess that's a pretty good balance between cost and quality/concentration of the fuel additive.

 

[Jetronic]

a bottle of decent pea additive contains much more than top tier fuel does. You could use the bottle over several fill-ups to get the same concentration of pea in the fuel.

 

[GrumpyCat]

hey all i know something similar to this has been discussed but wondering what you would think of this exact scenario

btw i usually fill 91 octane in my vehicle as long as the price spread isn't too much vs 87 octane.

today i was in a pickle was low on gas and usually fill top tier 91 always but i had to pull over at a no name / not well known gas station. as far as i understand it used to be a shell/chevron etc but i guess they rebranded.

i checked the price for premium 91 and it was pretty cheap, like 50 cents cheaper then what i would pay at any top tier 91. i remembered i had a bottle of techron in my trunk so i thought why not make a makeshift top tier premium 91

i usually get my techron on the BOGO deals so it probably only costed me like $6 each.

if i do the math my 12 gallon tank today on this no name 91 octane was like $6 cheaper then what i would pay at a top tier 91 but i added the techron bottle which makes it even. however that is the math based on running a full bottle of techron which isnt the case for maintenance dosing as far as i understand. i forgot the exact dosing for maintenance techron but lets assume its 1/3 of the bottle at the maximum. that would mean $2 of techron each fill into my 12 gallon tank.

which would mean i can make makeshift 91 octane thats top tier for a few $ cheaper then what top tier stations are running for

i know no one will probably have the exact answer to this cuz we will never actually know the diff between how much detergents are at a top tier 91 pump vs in a techron bottle and how bad non top tier gas really is but what do you guys think of this experiment?

thanks!

As for me, I have seen no need for Top Tier in my past 50 years of driving. No injector issues. No deposits in combustion chambers.

Once Upon A Time I found a list of approved EPA approved additives and TT's mix ratios vs the EPA mix ratio. If one could find that data once again then one could compare an over the counter bottle of Techron to Genuine TT pump gas.

My dirtbike needs 91 AKI. My Ford EcoBoost is said to be able to benefit from AKIs greater than 87 but after several tanks of 93 I noticed no difference, no change in MPG, so that was the end of that. Might make a difference with a 5000 pound trailer in tow.

 

[ecotourist]

If your vehicle runs well on 87 octane why bother? I'd just use a top tier 87.

Probably even cheaper without all the fuss and angst.

 

[y_p_w]

As for me, I have seen no need for Top Tier in my past 50 years of driving. No injector issues. No deposits in combustion chambers.

Once Upon A Time I found a list of approved EPA approved additives and TT's mix ratios vs the EPA mix ratio. If one could find that data once again then one could compare an over the counter bottle of Techron to Genuine TT pump gas.

My dirtbike needs 91 AKI. My Ford EcoBoost is said to be able to benefit from AKIs greater than 87 but after several tanks of 93 I noticed no difference, no change in MPG, so that was the end of that. Might make a difference with a 5000 pound trailer in tow.

Very often it's just a matter of concentration in whether or not a fuel additive will meet the Top Tier requirement. More cleans better, which is pretty easy to understand. I think in the industry they refer to it as "scalable" between minimum regulations and meeting higher standards.

https://www.aftonchemical.com/Afton/media/AftonSBU/Fuel/PDS/HiTEC-6590/HiTEC-6590_PDS.pdf?ext=.pdf​

HiTEC® 6590’s patented technology was designed to meet the challenges of direct injection engine technology, while continuing to deliver excellent performance in the traditional port fuel injection platform. A fully scalable additive with EPA and TOP TIERTM certification, HiTEC® 6590 delivers powerful keep-clean and clean-up performance at cost effective treat rates.​

Top Tier testing requirements are for a specific target concentration that meets the maximum deposit amount in testing. How that scales with the EPA minimum requirement (which is also for a higher maximum deposit amount) is not something that's predictable for different additives. But as far as I can tell, Top Tier says concentrations higher than in the submitted tests are OK.

That being said, Costco claims that their additive is in concentrations that are 5x EPA minimum, although that's probably for their specific additives. The only worry I have at Costco is proper mixture, as their additive is added during delivery, and people are still pumping gas during delivery. I'm thinking the mixture is still agitating. That's not a problem when the additive is mixed in at the fuel depot, and it should be well mixed in the time it takes to transport it to the gas station. However, they probably get at least an EPA minimum generic additive at the fuel depot (this is a legal requirement) and what they add at the Costco gas station is on top of that.

The Phillps 66 brands (Phillips, Conoco, 76) have some claim that Top Tier is met with about 2.5x the minimum EPA requirement, but that they use about 3x. I would think that applies to their own additive and wouldn't necessarily apply to a different one.

 

[y_p_w]

If your vehicle runs well on 87 octane why bother? I'd just use a top tier 87.

Probably even cheaper without all the fuss and angst.

A lot of angst seems to be in filling up somewhere where it isn't Top Tier and worrying about the effect on the engine. It's not going to be super gunky after one tank unless there's something seriously wrong with the fuel. It should be fine if going back to a higher additive fuel later.

There are quite a few companies that went off Top Tier temporarily while they claimed they maintained the same level of additive. Sunoco and BP come to mind. Sunoco was temporary, and BP apparently doesn't want to pay the fees any more.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Very often it's just a matter of concentration in whether or not a fuel additive will meet the Top Tier requirement. More cleans better, which is pretty easy to understand. I think in the industry they refer to it as "scalable" between minimum regulations and meeting higher standards.

Which is the Top Tier hook. "Go to automobile manufacturer and ask for a free recommendation for your branding in owner's manuals in exchange for FUDing your customers into buying a product which will lessen warranty claims on products you have failed to design to operate their full life with the specified EPA formulation."

The Top Tier ratio vs EPA differs with every detergent/additive.

Top Tier ratios are not a secret within the industry no matter I have failed to find online after an exhaustive 5 minute search. There is nothing preventing gas stations and distributors from following the Top Tier formula, is just that they can't advertise as such. They can say, "We use 5x the additives the EPA requires!"

For some reason the EPA thinks they have required sufficient detergent additives. Have you ever known a government agency to not exert their authority at every opportunity?

Top Tier testing requirements are for a specific target concentration that meets the maximum deposit amount in testing. How that scales with the EPA minimum requirement (which is also for a higher maximum deposit amount) is not something that's predictable for different additives. But as far as I can tell, Top Tier says concentrations higher than in the submitted tests are OK.

Thats what I have been saying, the OP needs to find the Top Tier mix ratio for Techron to know what it will cost to homebrew his own Top Tier.

That being said, Costco claims that their additive is in concentrations that are 5x EPA minimum, although that's probably for their specific additives.

Well big whoopee for Costco! They would like to FUD you into believing their gasoline is 5x better than minimum EPA spec but as you have so verbosely stated one can not simply double the additive to get double the cleaning. Tests are required to document performance vs concentration.

The only worry I have at Costco is proper mixture, as their additive is added during delivery, and people are still pumping gas during delivery. I'm thinking the mixture is still agitating. That's not a problem when the additive is mixed in at the fuel depot, and it should be well mixed in the time it takes to transport it to the gas station. However, they probably get at least an EPA minimum generic additive at the fuel depot (this is a legal requirement) and what they add at the Costco gas station is on top of that.

The Phillps 66 brands (Phillips, Conoco, 76) have some claim that Top Tier is met with about 2.5x the minimum EPA requirement, but that they use about 3x. I would think that applies to their own additive and wouldn't necessarily apply to a different one.

The whole point of Top Tier is to convince you that Costco, HiTest, Cowboy, Stop-N-Go, and Jimmy Bob's Greasy Deli gasoline is just as good as Shell and Texaco/Chevron. As such I seriously doubt Shell or Texaco/Chevron pay Top Tier and have almost never seen a Top Tier sticker at either.

 

[GrumpyCat]

A lot of angst seems to be in filling up somewhere where it isn't Top Tier and worrying about the effect on the engine. It's not going to be super gunky after one tank unless there's something seriously wrong with the fuel. It should be fine if going back to a higher additive fuel later.

There are quite a few companies that went off Top Tier temporarily while they claimed they maintained the same level of additive. Sunoco and BP come to mind. Sunoco was temporary, and BP apparently doesn't want to pay the fees any more.

The whole point of Top Tier is to convince you that no-name brands are just as good as the top names such as BP. Then why would BP want to pay Top Tier for the privilege of being lumped in with the no-name brands?

Rode 85,000 miles in 5 years mostly 100-200 mile days round trip from home and back using 87 AKI Walmart swill. Not Murphy but plain old "we are too cheap to pay Top Tier or even post a sign claiming superior properties." 4 cylinder fuel injected, runs great!

 

[ecotourist]

The only worry I have at Costco is proper mixture, as their additive is added during delivery, and people are still pumping gas during delivery. I'm thinking the mixture is still agitating. That's not a problem when the additive is mixed in at the fuel depot, and it should be well mixed in the time it takes to transport it to the gas station. However, they probably get at least an EPA minimum generic additive at the fuel depot (this is a legal requirement) and what they add at the Costco gas station is on top of that.

I have no personal knowledge of this but I understand that adding the additive at the time of delivery is the routine approach. The same fuel delivery truck will stop at several different brands of stations and deliver the right stuff to each one. And they do that by supplying each one's specified additive as it's being delivered.

You may be right about there being an industry minimum added at the fuel depot and then extra additives added for only some deliveries.

 

[kschachn]

I’m confused as to why you’re including the octane rating in this discussion about detergents.

 

[y_p_w]

I have no personal knowledge of this but I understand that adding the additive at the time of delivery is the routine approach. The same fuel delivery truck will stop at several different brands of stations and deliver the right stuff to each one. And they do that by supplying each one's specified additive as it's being delivered.

You may be right about there being an industry minimum added at the fuel depot and then extra additives added for only some deliveries.

A few fuel delivery drivers (TiredTrucker and GoldDot40) on BITOG have described that nearly big marketers have their branded additive in tanks at fuel depots where everything is automated. Driver comes in and swipes an ID card where their scheduled load and the additive is metered. I believe the additive is deposited first, where the delivered fuel "splash blends". By the time the delivery gets to the gas station, the additive is going to be a uniform concentration. So if it's a uniform concentration in the gas station tank and a uniform concentration beling delivered, there isn't going to be any chance that one spot in the tank has a lower concentration of additive.

Costco's system adds while fuel is being delivered, so there's a good chance it's still kind of blending, like food dye being added to water. But since there's an EPA minimum additive in the tanker truck, it's guaranteed to have at least a uniform concentration of additive as required by EPA regulations.

Once they've added a basic amount of additive at the fuel depot, they've met the EPA regs for fuel additives. Anything on top of that is up to the fuel marketer. There's also apparently a requirement that the total volume of additives must be less than 1%. I guess at a certain point that's reducing the amount of actual fuel.

 

[apollo18]

I’m confused as to why you’re including the octane rating in this discussion about detergents.

i included because i assumed 91 had more additives at the pump compared to 87, i could be wrong but i thought i read something about that

 

[Patman]

i included because i assumed 91 had more additives at the pump compared to 87, i could be wrong but i thought i read something about that

That’s not wrong when it comes to Shell as they claim that their 93 octane has the highest amount of detergents of all their grades

 

[kschachn]

That’s not wrong when it comes to Shell as they claim that their 93 octane has the highest amount of detergents of all their grades

Yes some brands do advertise that.

 

[ChrisD46]

a bottle of decent pea additive contains much more than top tier fuel does. You could use the bottle over several fill-ups to get the same concentration of pea in the fuel.

I agree - you could also use small doses of Redline Sl-1 at 1oz. per 10 gal of gas ratio.

 

[Titan]

Yes some brands do advertise that.

Which is confounding in it's own way. Detergents are not fuel. So, wouldn't too much detergent decrease the energy available per unit volume, and if so, at what concentration?

Octane, detergency, and a play on words muddies the selection process. Labeling the highest Octane as "Premium" is a Marketing 101 trick to dupe some people. Use it if your engine requires 93 Octane, and many boosted engines do require it...if you drive it while utilizing the higher boost pressures. But don't use "premium" because you think it means "superior to the other choices", because it's not necessarily true for your engine.