Top Tier fuels, I think they work

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TT, It's good until you get phase separated fuel. That can happen with any E10 gasoline. You will end up pumping either alcohol and water only - or a very low octane pure gasoline, the former being worse case.
I was doing good on Irving for a couple years but lately, got junk. Maybe shady owners getting midnight dumps or suspicious fluids.

Very prevalent Bad fuel around here for some reason. Even with new poly tanks installed after the
MTBE fiasco.
 
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Mahzurrah!
I've used top tier for a long time without any fuel related issue. One convenience store here that is on every corner is well known for garbage gas but people buy it anyway despite it seeming to be priced about the same.

I'd also heard BP simply opted out of TT. Supposedly their Ultimate premium is supposed to be a competitor to Shell's Nitro Plus and will easily pass top tier but they just don't get it certified for whatever reason. I've used a good bit of the Ultimate without any complaint.

Another large vendor here (Quik Trip) has taken top tier off their pumps due to shortage of additives. :oops:
 
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One convenience store here that is on every corner is well known for garbage gas but people buy it anyway despite it seeming to be priced about the same.
Have to remember that (I'll bet) 9 out of 10 people have no clue, nor do they care, what "Top Tier" is.
 
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Have to remember that (I'll bet) 9 out of 10 people have no clue, nor do they care, what "Top Tier" is.

Perhaps. But there are still people who follow the marketing of the big companies and are convinced that they're somehow better, whether it's Chevron, Shell, BP, Phillips, Sunoco, etc. At the very least they all purport to have higher standards for detergent additives than EPA minimum.
 

FZ1

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Perhaps. But there are still people who follow the marketing of the big companies and are convinced that they're somehow better, whether it's Chevron, Shell, BP, Phillips, Sunoco, etc. At the very least they all purport to have higher standards for detergent additives than EPA minimum.
Not following the marketing. Following experience. Quick Trip and Sam's gas don't run as well in my Camry as does Chevron with Techron. I think Techron has independently been proven a detergent that works. Seems smoother and a slight improvement in my mpg. Ymmv
 
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Not following the marketing. Following experience. Quick Trip and Sam's gas don't run as well in my Camry as does Chevron with Techron. I think Techron has independently been proven a detergent that works. Seems smoother and a slight improvement in my mpg. Ymmv

All EPA certified detergents have to go through a test to prove a certain effectiveness at a specified "treat rate". Top Tier requires running similar tests, but the amount of deposits allowed are lower.


Here's the EPA requirement in the Code of Federal Regulations.

 

FZ1

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All EPA certified detergents have to go through a test to prove a certain effectiveness at a specified "treat rate". Top Tier requires running similar tests, but the amount of deposits allowed are lower.


Here's the EPA requirement in the Code of Federal Regulations.

Thanks for the info. I'm not making a scientific claim, Just observing that my car "seems" to run better on the Chevron gas. Too many variables station to station. Just my experience.
 
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Thanks for the info. I'm not making a scientific claim, Just observing that my car "seems" to run better on the Chevron gas. Too many variables station to station. Just my experience.

However, many seem to attribute differences to base fuel, which is just way too inconsistent given the way the fuel marketing industry works. For instance, Chevron has five refineries. They may put gasoline into a pipeline, but the way the fuel transportation industry works, commodity fuel is fed in and commodity fuel is drawn out. Possibly mixed. I'm darn sure that any Chevron station in east coast is getting something that's not likely to be purely Chevron.

Now I live near the Chevron Richmond refinery. I'm thinking that given logistical considerations, it's probably supplying the base fuel for most of my immediate area, whether it's just moving a mile to the Kinder Morgan terminals just across town or being withdrawn from Chevron's own terminal. But even then, I'm under no allusion that Chevron makes better base fuel than Valero, Phillips, or Marathon, which are all in the same two counties.
 

FZ1

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However, many seem to attribute differences to base fuel, which is just way too inconsistent given the way the fuel marketing industry works. For instance, Chevron has five refineries. They may put gasoline into a pipeline, but the way the fuel transportation industry works, commodity fuel is fed in and commodity fuel is drawn out. Possibly mixed. I'm darn sure that any Chevron station in east coast is getting something that's not likely to be purely Chevron.

Now I live near the Chevron Richmond refinery. I'm thinking that given logistical considerations, it's probably supplying the base fuel for most of my immediate area, whether it's just moving a mile to the Kinder Morgan terminals just across town or being withdrawn from Chevron's own terminal. But even then, I'm under no allusion that Chevron makes better base fuel than Valero, Phillips, or Marathon, which are all in the same two counties.
Thanks for the details. Perhaps, it's just station to station variable.
 
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I stay almost entirely with TT fuel on my 2 more modern FI cars. A tank or two of non-TT results in a decrease in throttle response. Returning to TT after that results in good running in fairly short order. I also do a Techron dosing once a year.

I'm fairly certain that the whole TT thing came about after BMW decreed fuel standards after eating the cost of walnut media cleaning of cylinder heads many years ago.

I recently noticed that the one and only Marathon station in this area (had been a Speedway) has just removed the TT stickers from their pumps. No explanation signage.
 
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Several of the TT brands in my area also offer E0 at some of their stations. I don't know if that assures that their E0 is also TT. Most often the higher pipeline CBOB octane of 90. Occasionally 89. Sunoco, Valero and Rutters.
 
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Yep. Most of the time when you ask people where they fuel up, they'll reply, "whatever's cheapest."

Depends. There's got to be those who buy the marketing where I see lines at Chevron or Shell stations even though they have the highest prices. Then there are those who go for cheap, such as whatever independent.

That being said, there's cheap along with meeting high detergent standards such as Costco.
 
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As far as I know, that would be required to have the EPA minimum. However, the places where I've seen e85 it was specifically noted as being "unbranded" or of a specific brand. For example, there's a Valero station near me, but the E85 pumps are separate and note that they're marketed by a company called Propel Fuels.

Not sure what happens with some places that sell branded E85 like Shell where the company is considered Top Tier. However, E85 isn't marketed as "gasoline" so that might not require anything beyond the EPA minimum.

why would you run e85. it takes 1.5 gallons of ethanol to equate to 1 gallon of gas. Your gas milage suffer tremendously. You need a major price difference to be cost neutral.
 
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Clogged up the single point fuel injection of my late 90’s car by religiously using the cheapest of the cheap.

In my neighborhood a discount brand, Valero is now TT. So it’s an easy choice.

Don’t know why PEA should be so expensive if bought as an additive. Should be a buck and a half for a bottle of Techron.
 
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I use Shell exclusively. Top Tier. The VW manual recommends it, but I've been using Shell long before the VW's were parked in our driveway.
 
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why would you run e85. it takes 1.5 gallons of ethanol to equate to 1 gallon of gas. Your gas milage suffer tremendously. You need a major price difference to be cost neutral.
Depends on the vehicle, but for our grand caravan if E85 is over 30% cheaper than regular, it’s cheaper for us to run E85.
 
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why would you run e85. it takes 1.5 gallons of ethanol to equate to 1 gallon of gas. Your gas milage suffer tremendously. You need a major price difference to be cost neutral.

That's the energy content, but with that extremely high octane rating it's actually more efficient via timing advance. The mileage might be highest for E85 with the minimal ethanol content (51%) but even at the max ethanol content (which also means the highest performance) typical mileage is higher relative to the energy content. Also - higher ethanol tends to cool down the intake, which leads to higher efficiency.
 
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