Top Tier gas unavailable at Kwik Trip - what additive to use instead?

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

Depends. One rationale is that prevention is better than a cure. Is it better to allow it to get to a certain level of deposits and then rely on a concentrated additive to get it back to a lower deposit level. But for me, the absolutely cheapest fuel can be had at Arco and Costco, which both meet Top Tier certification.

And certainly SI-1 can be used as a preventative, but as someone who used small amount before, it's a huge pain to measure it out and properly mix it in the tank.

I agree with everything you have said here.

As someone whose last three ounces will last them until March 2022... I take a Sharpie, mark 15 approximately even spaced lines across the very small visible area, and open my gas cap and tip in once a month.

The hardest part is walking back in before I leave, since I need the key and that IS wasted motion but okay.

And yes also, Top Tier gas was also the lowest price, now I get gas from Murphy's (which honestly I'm not worried about it since it meets the minimum detergent of gas) but yeah, Top Tier will still be the better gas, just no way I'm going to a station of $3.04, $3.09, I've seen $3.14 and $3.19 when I can get it for less than $3.

I was around Toledo Ohio the other day and was not familiar with the area and decided to get some cheaper gas before I entered a state where I have always felt it costs more and had to take a guess at stations and fueled up for $3.04 a gallon or so. The very next exit, after I fueled up, gas was $2.89. I added 7 gallons so I literally missed on saving $1.05.. it did not bother me, as this was the day I was headed to Mantego Illinois however it is a bit of a toss up and you can hedge what you have to spend against amount of gas in your tank, I shop by price not whether it is Top Tier or not.

And yes, I am aware people have the right to overpay. I have one of my trips mapped out so there is only one Gotcha point. Otherwise, yes, an ounce of preventative maintenance is worth...

I'm old.

 

[Donald]

If I wanted to use an additive I would use Techtron.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

If I wanted to use an additive I would use Techtron.

I am attracted to the PEA cleaners (Gumout with Regane and Redline are my only two go-tos, one is easy to get one requires preparation to get) more than the Seafoam type cleaners (B12, Seafoam, Techron.)

Techron seems a solvent? Yes I know it is in Chevron gas and is a favorite but I have gotten away from it, same with Seafoam for gas..

 

[Donald]

I am attracted to the PEA cleaners (Gumout with Regane and Redline are my only two go-tos, one is easy to get one requires preparation to get) more than the Seafoam type cleaners (B12, Seafoam, Techron.)

Techron seems a solvent? Yes I know it is in Chevron gas and is a favorite but I have gotten away from it, same with Seafoam for gas..

Techtron is a PEA. Probably the first one.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

Techtron is a PEA. Probably the first one.

Oh!

Well, in that case...

 

[y_p_w]

I agree with everything you have said here.

As someone whose last three ounces will last them until March 2022... I take a Sharpie, mark 15 approximately even spaced lines across the very small visible area, and open my gas cap and tip in once a month.

The hardest part is walking back in before I leave, since I need the key and that IS wasted motion but okay.

And yes also, Top Tier gas was also the lowest price, now I get gas from Murphy's (which honestly I'm not worried about it since it meets the minimum detergent of gas) but yeah, Top Tier will still be the better gas, just no way I'm going to a station of $3.04, $3.09, I've seen $3.14 and $3.19 when I can get it for less than $3.

I was around Toledo Ohio the other day and was not familiar with the area and decided to get some cheaper gas before I entered a state where I have always felt it costs more and had to take a guess at stations and fueled up for $3.04 a gallon or so. The very next exit, after I fueled up, gas was $2.89. I added 7 gallons so I literally missed on saving $1.05.. it did not bother me, as this was the day I was headed to Mantego Illinois however it is a bit of a toss up and you can hedge what you have to spend against amount of gas in your tank, I shop by price not whether it is Top Tier or not.

And yes, I am aware people have the right to overpay. I have one of my trips mapped out so there is only one Gotcha point. Otherwise, yes, an ounce of preventative maintenance is worth...

I'm old.

I get that many times people here tend to overthink everything. I've even heard some insist that there is no alternative to Shell, Chevron, etc. and a lot of it seems to be based more on marketing and thinking that a premium price must buy something. But the truth is that the cost of the Top Tier certified additive is only a few pennies and that it's not that much of a marketing expense. I'm pretty darn sure that I'm not getting anything special with the 60 cents more per gallon at a Shell station compared to the Arco station across the street.

The truth is that fuel is a commodity and pump fuel additives are easy for any fuel marketer to add. Any fuel marketer can buy from Afton, BASF, Lubrizol, or Chevron Oronite and get a pretty darn good additive fairly cheap. It's even odder that Chevron Oronite will sell to Chevron's competitors.

The biggest PITA with Redline is their bottle shape. I had this place that sold SI-1 for less than $4 a bottle in the late 90s, and I was at a point where I took this way too seriously and was using it all the time. I'd carefully measure it according to the lines that used to be on the bottle and have it ready. But the hard part was getting the last little bit out of the bottle because of that weird neck.

 

[y_p_w]

I am attracted to the PEA cleaners (Gumout with Regane and Redline are my only two go-tos, one is easy to get one requires preparation to get) more than the Seafoam type cleaners (B12, Seafoam, Techron.)

Techron seems a solvent? Yes I know it is in Chevron gas and is a favorite but I have gotten away from it, same with Seafoam for gas..

Chevron doesn't really make PEA, but their researchers were the first to determine that it was a superior detergent additive compared to the other additives used in the 80s. Still - there's nothing specific about PEA where it's the only thing. It's not absolutely needed for good results.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

I get that many times people here tend to overthink everything. I've even heard some insist that there is no alternative to Shell, Chevron, etc. and a lot of it seems to be based more on marketing and thinking that a premium price must buy something. But the truth is that the cost of the Top Tier certified additive is only a few pennies and that it's not that much of a marketing expense. I'm pretty darn sure that I'm not getting anything special with the 60 cents more per gallon at a Shell station compared to the Arco station across the street.

The truth is that fuel is a commodity and pump fuel additives are easy for any fuel marketer to add. Any fuel marketer can buy from Afton, BASF, Lubrizol, or Chevron Oronite and get a pretty darn good additive fairly cheap. It's even odder that Chevron Oronite will sell to Chevron's competitors.

The biggest PITA with Redline is their bottle shape. I had this place that sold SI-1 for less than $4 a bottle in the late 90s, and I was at a point where I took this way too seriously and was using it all the time. I'd carefully measure it according to the lines that used to be on the bottle and have it ready. But the hard part was getting the last little bit out of the bottle because of that weird neck.

Chevron is smart to sell to their competitors because it has been the rare weird place I have been that I've ever even seen Chevron. And when I do.. I see the price and I laugh.

20% or so of my income goes to fuel. I could get a smaller car or one better on gas but.. I don't want to, I'm not prepared for a whole new vehicle, I may have the two I have now until I die, I don't particularly like either one of them but, I've grown to respect the one aside from a few small nitpicks I can probably find on ANY car, and the other one.. well 2022 will dictate how that will go, it is being given a chance at reliable service in a way that will save a friend of mine money. Neither one is as fast as a built Corvette (the silly stupid fast ones, with Magnusson blowers) and neither one is perfect but they are mine. Next car, I dont know.. anyways. About the gas. Yeah, buying the cheapest I know exactly where it is, I take such good care of the car anyway I appreciate whatever savings I can get, I don't think "they" are quite through with us yet if you know what I'm saying, somewhere, a group of people that are not us decided we cant be happy and simple things we have come to take for granted need to be challenged.. I'll leave that at that. I predict two more years. Or less.

Anyways, yes I agree the packaging is just ridiculous and I use a funnel and I will give it about 5 seconds.

I always hear people with money talk about Exxon, BP, Shell goes come up a lot and... I just think to myself, Yup. Okay. Fools.... I cant see the price justification on fuel.

Kirkland gas is top tier but if you can find it. Again, I shop by price. I no longer live where the cheapest gas is also the best gas, and I'm somewhat glad because you want to see a circus, go to the zoo.

 

[MNgopher]

In regards to the Kwik Trip TT, I saw the same thing that they are listed on the TT website as normal, but interestingly make zero mention of it on their own website. Pretty sure they used to make a big deal about being TT.

And the question about it being a regional issue has some merit to it - TT hauls out of terminals all over. May be an issue at only some of them at the moment...

 

[y_p_w]

Chevron is smart to sell to their competitors because it has been the rare weird place I have been that I've ever even seen Chevron. And when I do.. I see the price and I laugh.

20% or so of my income goes to fuel. I could get a smaller car or one better on gas but.. I don't want to, I'm not prepared for a whole new vehicle, I may have the two I have now until I die, I don't particularly like either one of them but, I've grown to respect the one aside from a few small nitpicks I can probably find on ANY car, and the other one.. well 2022 will dictate how that will go, it is being given a chance at reliable service in a way that will save a friend of mine money. Neither one is as fast as a built Corvette (the silly stupid fast ones, with Magnusson blowers) and neither one is perfect but they are mine. Next car, I dont know.. anyways. About the gas. Yeah, buying the cheapest I know exactly where it is, I take such good care of the car anyway I appreciate whatever savings I can get, I don't think "they" are quite through with us yet if you know what I'm saying, somewhere, a group of people that are not us decided we cant be happy and simple things we have come to take for granted need to be challenged.. I'll leave that at that. I predict two more years. Or less.

Anyways, yes I agree the packaging is just ridiculous and I use a funnel and I will give it about 5 seconds.

I always hear people with money talk about Exxon, BP, Shell goes come up a lot and... I just think to myself, Yup. Okay. Fools.... I cant see the price justification on fuel.

Kirkland gas is top tier but if you can find it. Again, I shop by price. I no longer live where the cheapest gas is also the best gas, and I'm somewhat glad because you want to see a circus, go to the zoo.

It’s going to be tough figuring out who makes what though. It's certainly easy enough for a company to just pick an off the shelf additive and use it, but what they use is generally considered proprietary. I'm sure there are some fuel retailers that use the same exact additive as another, but we'll likely never know about it. I am sure that Chevron uses its own Techron additive. Sunoco makes their own additive. There's been somewhat public information that Costco had Lubrizol make a custom additive (Lubrizol 9888 with several variations) for them. The name that BP uses (Invigorate) is listed as an additive made by BASF.

List of Certified Detergent Additives | List of Registered Fuels and Fuel Additives | Fuels and Fuel Additives | US EPA

I guess the point of Top Tier is knowing that the standard is met, but apparently not that we know what they use to meet the standard. I get that some feel that it's PEA or nothing, but at this point I don't really care because PEA isn't the only thing out there that works. Some of these additives also "scale" where they can be used at a "lowest additive concentration" level to meet EPA minimums or at a higher concentration to meet Top Tier or higher requirements.

And it's not really all that unusual to sell additives to competitors. Chevron Oronite does it for motor oil additives. I know that Chevron motor oils aren't necessarily thought of as the greatest, but there's nothing wrong with them and I wouldn't be surprised if Chevron's additive packages weren't used by competitors that more consumers would think of as making a premium product.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

It’s going to be tough figuring out who makes what though. It's certainly easy enough for a company to just pick an off the shelf additive and use it, but what they use is generally considered proprietary. I'm sure there are some fuel retailers that use the same exact additive as another, but we'll likely never know about it. I am sure that Chevron uses its own Techron additive. Sunoco makes their own additive. There's been somewhat public information that Costco had Lubrizol make a custom additive (Lubrizol 9888 with several variations) for them. The name that BP uses (Invigorate) is listed as an additive made by BASF.

List of Certified Detergent Additives | List of Registered Fuels and Fuel Additives | Fuels and Fuel Additives | US EPA

I guess the point of Top Tier is knowing that the standard is met, but apparently not that we know what they use to meet the standard. I get that some feel that it's PEA or nothing, but at this point I don't really care because PEA isn't the only thing out there that works. Some of these additives also "scale" where they can be used at a "lowest additive concentration" level to meet EPA minimums or at a higher concentration to meet Top Tier or higher requirements.

And it's not really all that unusual to sell additives to competitors. Chevron Oronite does it for motor oil additives. I know that Chevron motor oils aren't necessarily thought of as the greatest, but there's nothing wrong with them and I wouldn't be surprised if Chevron's additive packages weren't used by competitors that more consumers would think of as making a premium product.

Having previously worked for Sunoco, I know it is good gas, but again I feel you're paying for a name.

Additives get sprayed in at the last second loaded onto tanker, otherwise it's all gas..

 

[y_p_w]

Having previously worked for Sunoco, I know it is good gas, but again I feel you're paying for a name.

Additives get sprayed in at the last second loaded onto tanker, otherwise it's all gas..

Of course it's a commodity. I think most consumers don't seem to realize that the vast majority of fuel sold is a commodity where the name at the pump may not mean squat because there's just so much commodity trading going on via exchange agreements and pipeline pipeline operators. The real kicker is that one oil company might pay Kinder Morgan to get fuel from point A to point B, while another pays them to get equivalent fuel from point B to point A. So they won't actually transport it to the extent that they can because all these are fungible commodities.

I thought that additives went into the tanker first, because then the sloshing of the fuel will mix it.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

Of course it's a commodity. I think most consumers don't seem to realize that the vast majority of fuel sold is a commodity where the name at the pump may not mean squat because there's just so much commodity trading going on via exchange agreements and pipeline pipeline operators. The real kicker is that one oil company might pay Kinder Morgan to get fuel from point A to point B, while another pays them to get equivalent fuel from point B to point A. So they won't actually transport it to the extent that they can because all these are fungible commodities.

I thought that additives went into the tanker first, because then the sloshing of the fuel will mix it.

I thought it got sprayed into the stream of fuel as it went into the tanker? .. Good question!

I've heard of Kinder Morgan. Happy New Year too!

 

[y_p_w]

I thought it got sprayed into the stream of fuel as it went into the tanker? .. Good question!

I've heard of Kinder Morgan. Happy New Year too!

I was thinking it wasn’t likely at the end of the load. That wouldn’t blend it well. It’s got to be near the start.

Pipeline operations can get rather convoluted. It’s possible to pay for a delivery of specific fuel from point A to point B, but that’s rare since most fuel is a commodity and the costs are higher. The marketing of fuel makes it seem like there’s something special about the fuel, but distribution often mixes commodity fuels from different sources.

 

[TmanP]

In regards to the Kwik Trip TT, I saw the same thing that they are listed on the TT website as normal, but interestingly make zero mention of it on their own website. Pretty sure they used to make a big deal about being TT.

And the question about it being a regional issue has some merit to it - TT hauls out of terminals all over. May be an issue at only some of them at the moment...

Agreed about it likely being regional. I just passed a KT fuel tanker on the freeway yesterday and it still had TT markings all over it; they certainly promoted that heavily until the disruption. It’ll be interesting to see if they continue participating in the program after the disruption is over.

 

[Ignatius]

I just filled up at Kwik Trip and put 8 ounces of MMO in the tank before pumping gas. Afterwards the engine power was beastly jumping back on the interstate.

 

[tmorris1]

I was thinking it wasn’t likely at the end of the load. That wouldn’t blend it well. It’s got to be near the start.

The guy I talked to says the ethanol goes in first and then the gasoline. He says there is a step or 2 in the middle of the process where the additives get mixed in.

 

[kschachn]

I just filled up at Kwik Trip and put 8 ounces of MMO in the tank before pumping gas. Afterwards the engine power was beastly jumping back on the interstate.

Right.

 

[MNgopher]

Agreed about it likely being regional. I just passed a KT fuel tanker on the freeway yesterday and it still had TT markings all over it; they certainly promoted that heavily until the disruption. It’ll be interesting to see if they continue participating in the program after the disruption is over.

At Kwik Trip today in Burnsville and the Top Tier stickers are gone off the pumps...

 

[tmorris1]

At Kwik Trip today in Burnsville and the Top Tier stickers are gone off the pumps...

I don't think the ones down by me have ever been on the pumps since they built the place a few years ago.