Simple answer...look at what the rental companies use. That is EXACTLY what they are looking for. LOW total cost of ownership. Go to your local car rental companies, and there is your answer.
Top 5 reliable, affordable car makers?
- Thread starter Elkins45
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Honda
Toyota
and maybe Subaru...after that it's a coin flip. There are many very good trouble free cars made however you have to do your homework since
some have only 1 major problem but it can be a big one. Even with Honda and Toyota you have to make sure you buy the right engine and year. I know there have been some problems with the 1.5 turbo engines in the civic and crv. I think most of those problems have been corrected especially on the new ones. The old GM 3.8 engines were really good except for the head gaskets. Some of those proven engine and transmission configurations should have been kept for longer runs however it seems car makers seem to be happy by changing things that were proven to be good. Sometimes the end result is the consumer is the guinea pig after the warranty runs out or the dealerships are unable to correct problems in a timely matter. I could go on forever.........
Toyota
and maybe Subaru...after that it's a coin flip. There are many very good trouble free cars made however you have to do your homework since
some have only 1 major problem but it can be a big one. Even with Honda and Toyota you have to make sure you buy the right engine and year. I know there have been some problems with the 1.5 turbo engines in the civic and crv. I think most of those problems have been corrected especially on the new ones. The old GM 3.8 engines were really good except for the head gaskets. Some of those proven engine and transmission configurations should have been kept for longer runs however it seems car makers seem to be happy by changing things that were proven to be good. Sometimes the end result is the consumer is the guinea pig after the warranty runs out or the dealerships are unable to correct problems in a timely matter. I could go on forever.........
Originally Posted by DriveHard
Simple answer...look at what the rental companies use. That is EXACTLY what they are looking for. LOW total cost of ownership. Go to your local car rental companies, and there is your answer.
Do rental companies keep their cars past warranty? Do many cars have issues in warranty? Would rental cars bother to repair the little things that drive purchasers crazy?
No. No. No.
Rental companies buy what they can get cheap and in bulk, period.
Simple answer...look at what the rental companies use. That is EXACTLY what they are looking for. LOW total cost of ownership. Go to your local car rental companies, and there is your answer.
Do rental companies keep their cars past warranty? Do many cars have issues in warranty? Would rental cars bother to repair the little things that drive purchasers crazy?
No. No. No.
Rental companies buy what they can get cheap and in bulk, period.
I think the Chrysler 3.6 would be a safe bet in a Charger, Challenger, minivan, etc.
GM makes a good front wheel drive transmission in general. GM powertrains are good in general.
I've been impressed with Ford too. The Coyote 5.0 in the Mustang is very good and has crazy power (I actually think they have underestimated it.)
GM makes a good front wheel drive transmission in general. GM powertrains are good in general.
I've been impressed with Ford too. The Coyote 5.0 in the Mustang is very good and has crazy power (I actually think they have underestimated it.)
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by DriveHard
Simple answer...look at what the rental companies use. That is EXACTLY what they are looking for. LOW total cost of ownership. Go to your local car rental companies, and there is your answer.
Do rental companies keep their cars past warranty? Do many cars have issues in warranty? Would rental cars bother to repair the little things that drive purchasers crazy?
No. No. No.
Rental companies buy what they can get cheap and in bulk, period.
That is not what the original question was...reliability and affordability. Rental fleets are made up of cars that have low TCO and keep on going. There is no way a car that had a reputation for leaving folks stranded would be in a rental fleet. I rent cars often, and if I got stranded, might never rent from that company again.
The original question did not mention keeping a car past warranty...so no argument there. If half of a rental fleet were down for warranty issues, the company would be loosing money, so obviously making sure a car is not down for repairs is a HUGE motivator.
The "little things" that drive you mad are different for each of us. I have driven all kinds of makes and models, and the little things that drive me mad differ on the car and performance and experience I am given from that car. Am I willing to put up with a harsh ride in my Fiat for lightening quick reflexes, quick acceleration, and great gas mileage? YUP! Even though I have a driver door squeek and it doesn't go into reverse perfectly. Seriously...these are just machines, and they all have trade-offs.
If you want to know what the MOST cost conscious cars to run and maintain are...look at fleet cars (rentals), there are literally thousands of very intelligent folks answering this question every day as their professional job. Run my fleet as cheaply as possible and keep it going!!!
Originally Posted by DriveHard
Simple answer...look at what the rental companies use. That is EXACTLY what they are looking for. LOW total cost of ownership. Go to your local car rental companies, and there is your answer.
Do rental companies keep their cars past warranty? Do many cars have issues in warranty? Would rental cars bother to repair the little things that drive purchasers crazy?
No. No. No.
Rental companies buy what they can get cheap and in bulk, period.
That is not what the original question was...reliability and affordability. Rental fleets are made up of cars that have low TCO and keep on going. There is no way a car that had a reputation for leaving folks stranded would be in a rental fleet. I rent cars often, and if I got stranded, might never rent from that company again.
The original question did not mention keeping a car past warranty...so no argument there. If half of a rental fleet were down for warranty issues, the company would be loosing money, so obviously making sure a car is not down for repairs is a HUGE motivator.
The "little things" that drive you mad are different for each of us. I have driven all kinds of makes and models, and the little things that drive me mad differ on the car and performance and experience I am given from that car. Am I willing to put up with a harsh ride in my Fiat for lightening quick reflexes, quick acceleration, and great gas mileage? YUP! Even though I have a driver door squeek and it doesn't go into reverse perfectly. Seriously...these are just machines, and they all have trade-offs.
If you want to know what the MOST cost conscious cars to run and maintain are...look at fleet cars (rentals), there are literally thousands of very intelligent folks answering this question every day as their professional job. Run my fleet as cheaply as possible and keep it going!!!
I'm more curious about what is more reliable and affordable outside of warranty--AFAIK vehicles have lower TCO if driven long past warranty so as to drive cost per mile down. But then you worry about when costs will go through the roof as MTBF on every system and component is reached.
Three Hertz HyunKia's in the extended family. All flawless.
Originally Posted by Silverado12
I think the Chrysler 3.6 would be a safe bet in a Charger, Challenger, minivan, etc.
GM makes a good front wheel drive transmission in general. GM powertrains are good in general.
I've been impressed with Ford too. The Coyote 5.0 in the Mustang is very good and has crazy power (I actually think they have underestimated it.)
You are cherry picking out winners. Even VW has some in their lineup(recent Passat) but I would not recommend the entire maker blindly as top reliable under $30k.
I think the Chrysler 3.6 would be a safe bet in a Charger, Challenger, minivan, etc.
GM makes a good front wheel drive transmission in general. GM powertrains are good in general.
I've been impressed with Ford too. The Coyote 5.0 in the Mustang is very good and has crazy power (I actually think they have underestimated it.)
You are cherry picking out winners. Even VW has some in their lineup(recent Passat) but I would not recommend the entire maker blindly as top reliable under $30k.
Originally Posted by dishdude
Buy what you like and roll the dice.
That's far too easy for BITOG; first you need to take some shots at a few brands you've never even sat in and then sanctimoniously proclaim how superior your anodyne transport pod is to any other form of vehicular transportation.
Buy what you like and roll the dice.
That's far too easy for BITOG; first you need to take some shots at a few brands you've never even sat in and then sanctimoniously proclaim how superior your anodyne transport pod is to any other form of vehicular transportation.
Subaru is an oddball that makes pretty reliable vehicles or disaster engines they patch up honestly since the 2000's. They seem so random to me.
Originally Posted by supton
I'm more curious about what is more reliable and affordable outside of warranty--AFAIK vehicles have lower TCO if driven long past warranty so as to drive cost per mile down. But then you worry about when costs will go through the roof as MTBF on every system and component is reached.
What I find so frustrating is that you can't really find any data on long-term (i.e. 5 yrs+) ownership. There is a group in Germany (maybe TUV) which literally disassembles vehicles with about 50k miles on them but of course a majority of those vehicles aren't sold in the US.
If you look ad the JD Power VDS (3 yr) study I posted you'll see VW/Hyundai ranked above and sometimes well above Honda, Nissan, Mazda, as well as a bunch of the domestics yet owners of these brands claim their vehicles have been very reliable post warranty.
I'm more curious about what is more reliable and affordable outside of warranty--AFAIK vehicles have lower TCO if driven long past warranty so as to drive cost per mile down. But then you worry about when costs will go through the roof as MTBF on every system and component is reached.
What I find so frustrating is that you can't really find any data on long-term (i.e. 5 yrs+) ownership. There is a group in Germany (maybe TUV) which literally disassembles vehicles with about 50k miles on them but of course a majority of those vehicles aren't sold in the US.
If you look ad the JD Power VDS (3 yr) study I posted you'll see VW/Hyundai ranked above and sometimes well above Honda, Nissan, Mazda, as well as a bunch of the domestics yet owners of these brands claim their vehicles have been very reliable post warranty.
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by supton
I'm more curious about what is more reliable and affordable outside of warranty--AFAIK vehicles have lower TCO if driven long past warranty so as to drive cost per mile down. But then you worry about when costs will go through the roof as MTBF on every system and component is reached.
What I find so frustrating is that you can't really find any data on long-term (i.e. 5 yrs+) ownership. There is a group in Germany (maybe TUV) which literally disassembles vehicles with about 50k miles on them but of course a majority of those vehicles aren't sold in the US.
If you look ad the JD Power VDS (3 yr) study I posted you'll see VW/Hyundai ranked above and sometimes well above Honda, Nissan, Mazda, as well as a bunch of the domestics yet owners of these brands claim their vehicles have been very reliable post warranty.
We hit 50k in about 2 year's driving, aim for about 10 years ownership. Well, more if we can, but a vehicle worth it's salt should be under 10c/m depreciation inside that timeframe if we buy new.
I'm guessing I'm just not a "normal" owner and these threads probably aren't useful to me. With 200k being the new 100k I think any repair before 200k is the new metric. Maybe brake pads and rotors are ok repairs, wipers tires fluids, but other than that... That's why I probably won't buy another Toyota, so far 2 out of 3 have failed that test, and the third still has a ways to go to prove itself.
Originally Posted by supton
I'm more curious about what is more reliable and affordable outside of warranty--AFAIK vehicles have lower TCO if driven long past warranty so as to drive cost per mile down. But then you worry about when costs will go through the roof as MTBF on every system and component is reached.
What I find so frustrating is that you can't really find any data on long-term (i.e. 5 yrs+) ownership. There is a group in Germany (maybe TUV) which literally disassembles vehicles with about 50k miles on them but of course a majority of those vehicles aren't sold in the US.
If you look ad the JD Power VDS (3 yr) study I posted you'll see VW/Hyundai ranked above and sometimes well above Honda, Nissan, Mazda, as well as a bunch of the domestics yet owners of these brands claim their vehicles have been very reliable post warranty.
We hit 50k in about 2 year's driving, aim for about 10 years ownership. Well, more if we can, but a vehicle worth it's salt should be under 10c/m depreciation inside that timeframe if we buy new.
I'm guessing I'm just not a "normal" owner and these threads probably aren't useful to me. With 200k being the new 100k I think any repair before 200k is the new metric. Maybe brake pads and rotors are ok repairs, wipers tires fluids, but other than that... That's why I probably won't buy another Toyota, so far 2 out of 3 have failed that test, and the third still has a ways to go to prove itself.
Originally Posted by csandste
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Something I've noticed. I've never seen a broken down Hyundai or Kia on the side of the road.
Had four Kia's and a Hyundai. Never any trouble. However pics of burning engines can be disconcerting. When they blow they do so spectacularly.
Well, if it's gonna happen might as well put on a show ...‚
Ok, serious now... I'm on my second Hyundai-Kia. The first was an Elantra and I now have a Sedona. Each has had a minor repair issue that the dealership resolved. Neither has left me broken down on the side of the road and both went over 100k with my Sedona currently at 165k and it runs like the day I bought it new. I really believe I owe my good luck to adhering to the maintenance schedule and using quality, name brand fluids specd for the vehicles.
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Something I've noticed. I've never seen a broken down Hyundai or Kia on the side of the road.
Had four Kia's and a Hyundai. Never any trouble. However pics of burning engines can be disconcerting. When they blow they do so spectacularly.
Well, if it's gonna happen might as well put on a show ...‚
Ok, serious now... I'm on my second Hyundai-Kia. The first was an Elantra and I now have a Sedona. Each has had a minor repair issue that the dealership resolved. Neither has left me broken down on the side of the road and both went over 100k with my Sedona currently at 165k and it runs like the day I bought it new. I really believe I owe my good luck to adhering to the maintenance schedule and using quality, name brand fluids specd for the vehicles.
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by dishdude
Buy what you like and roll the dice.
That's far too easy for BITOG; first you need to take some shots at a few brands you've never even sat in and then sanctimoniously proclaim how superior your anodyne transport pod is to any other form of vehicular transportation.
This is moment of ZEN today.
Originally Posted by dishdude
Buy what you like and roll the dice.
That's far too easy for BITOG; first you need to take some shots at a few brands you've never even sat in and then sanctimoniously proclaim how superior your anodyne transport pod is to any other form of vehicular transportation.
Originally Posted by csandste
Toyota
Honda
HyunKia
Mazda
Subaru
Yep!
Every other brand, you can expect it to be unreliable.
Toyota
Honda
HyunKia
Mazda
Subaru
Yep!
Every other brand, you can expect it to be unreliable.
Or just not as reliable. Whether or not that matters to someone is a different question.
When I bought my VW I knew wouldn't be as reliable as whatever was top of the list back then, but I was fine with that, I wanted the VW and was willing to compromise on reliability. Over 11 years it only needed towing twice, and while that was a hard summer to bear under ($4k in repairs plus the two tows), it was what it was--it was still the car that I wanted and liked.
When I bought my VW I knew wouldn't be as reliable as whatever was top of the list back then, but I was fine with that, I wanted the VW and was willing to compromise on reliability. Over 11 years it only needed towing twice, and while that was a hard summer to bear under ($4k in repairs plus the two tows), it was what it was--it was still the car that I wanted and liked.
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
![[Linked Image]](https://d1arsn5g9mfrlq.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/slide1_64.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Wow..Honda really fell quite badly according to JD Power....below industry average even.
Wow..Honda really fell quite badly according to JD Power....below industry average even.
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