Too little too late (CAFE)

[eljefino]

This might not be rocket science but if they cut 15 cents of tax off the first 7 gallons of gas you bought per week, then all further gas had the existing tax plus another 15 cents, that would send a message to people:

Buy 14 gallons a week, break even.

Buy less, save.

Buy more, pay.

And one would think about it before going over the seven gallon mark.

Could be handled through the credit card companies and rebates.

The new car Monroney stickers would say how many miles you can go per week before the higher tax kicked in.

Some reform on registration fees, excise tax, and insurance, to promote having a 2nd efficient vehicle, would be helpful as well. Simply tax the most expensive vehicle as present and make the next car cheap. Same with insurance: One can only drive one car at a time anyway so set the rate on the most dangerous vehicle liability-wise.

 

[bob_ninja]

Yesterday I was listening radio. They were talkin about Singapore and their efforts to limit congestion on roads by imposing all sorts of restrictions and taxes. I forget all the details, but heard things like 100% tax on car, etc. really prohibitive stuff.

Anyway, Jett Rink brings up an important point of wider ramifications of oil prices. Sure, we have free markets and people are free to spend money as they see fit, so on. However, things are different for necessities. Medicine is regulated even in the USA. Consider that a much higher price doesn't affect just us when filling our cars. The ambulance and fire fighters also have to pay more for gas and they are paid from taxes, so out taxes go up. Even the mailmen and newspaper delivery end up having to increase their fees. So even if you can handle a much higher price and drive Durango or whatever other beast, all of us will end up having to pay much more for all sort of services, public and private. The economy would quickly go into recession at best, maybe even depression if oil prices and wars get any worse (Iran?).
The danger is if domino effect is triggered where oil price is the 1st piece, the initial spark. It can trigger all sorts of secondary and tertiary effects which would likely be out of control.

As Jett mentioned, the sad part in all this is that many technologies that augment and/or replace oil are here today, already exist. Prius and ethanol are just the 1st steps. It is easy to cover a Prius with solar panels so it charges itself while parked at work. And so on.

Unfortunatelly the car industry is lazy and has a huge inertia. Yes, government can play a role by giving them a little nudge (such as CAFE) to push them to move sooner rather than later. At the end of the day, most wells will become dry and then ....

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Hey Thunder? Your Quote:

quote:

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I like driving my SUV. I Like Driving Trucks! I don't like small cars and will continue to drive my truck. Being an American means that you have the right to choose!

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True. And we little-car folks that are being reasonable about our fuel consumption in a time of war over the oil fields, are of course, free to belittle YOU over YOUR "free" (hardly free, gauging from the reaction of you guys at the pump) choice decision to drive a gas-hogg.

Working folks with a real need to drive these things are of course, excepted from my disdain, for all anyone cares. This gas-stuff is sensitive for me, we have some folks in the family over there, and the war IS about the oil, at its roots.

And there are a great many peeps back here, safe and sound, burning up the gas as fast as they can with "I Want" vehicles, instead of driving a "This is adequate" vehicle. These sport-utes are all about vanity and the display of grandeur, wealth, and compensation, with few exceptions, and don't say me different. And spare me the "safety" issue, these trucks kill their occupants, too.

I don't for a minute advocate a governed solution, but owner-embarrasment and the economic consequences resulting from said choices will probably turn the tide in due time.

My 2 cents.

 

[Ray H]

I agree entirely with the "I'll-continue-to-drive-whatever-I-please-so-screw-you" sentiment so elegantly expressed by several posters. The answer as mid-east crude deliveries dwindle (and it'll happen for obvious geopolitical reasons) is rationing. Ten gallons per week for vehicles weighing in excess of 6,000 lbs ought to just about equalize things for everyone's personal transportation needs. Legitimate business uses would be exempt.

 

[road_rascal]

Here's an idea: how about reducing the number of gasoline blends in the US (to lower costs) and get rid of ethanol to increase mpg.

 

[greenjp]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kestas:
I don't like the idea of my tax dollars being used to subsidize your preference.

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Careful. Almost all of us have at least one or more "preferences" subsidized by tax dollars. Own your home? - mortgage interest deduction on the backs of renters. Have kids? - child tax credit. Student loans? - Federal subsidies. Live far from your office? - Road construction & maintenance. Take the subway? - I think you get my drift

jeff

 

[brianl703]

See for yourself what State Farm thinks about how safe various vehicles are:

http://www.statefarm.com/insuranc/auto/veh_rating/ratings.htm

The LRI is a measure of how likely it is that the typical driver of that particular vehicle is going to cause an accident and how much damage they will do. (I suggest noting the vehicles with an "E" rating and staying far, far away from them).

The VSD is how much the medical insurance/personal injury premiums are discounted for that vehicle. In other words, it is a measure of how well the vehicle protects the occupants in an accident.

 

[thunderchild]

Our tax dollars are subsidizing alot. I spend MY money on MY choices. I don't tell you what to drive and I **** sure not going to let you tell me what I can drive. Your choices are yours and mine are mine. Live and let live I say. I will continue to do my thing and you do yours.

 

[pajim17057]

Kestas, I used to drive a dodge ram witch gets about 18 mpg. Due to these outragous gas prices. I parked it and now drive a beat up nissan sentra. It gets about 35 mpg. It costs me about the same as I could fill my truck up just a few years ago. So now you want me to pay what it
costs to fill my truck now? You liberals are never happy. 5 dollar per gallon gas will destroy the economy. I think thats what some liberals want.

 

[thunderchild]

Whoa boy's! Let's not go to the political arena. Much blood will be spilled.

 

[Winston]

I think it is a good thing. They gave the mfg's a performance target instead of demanding certain technologies on specific vehicles. This new requirement can be met many ways by the mfg's. This requirement stimulates research to extract more mpg. (5W20) The trucks/SUV's would not have the mpg that they have now without these CAFE requirements.

Flame suit on.

 

[mechtech]

Kestas - We don't get any oil from Iraq.

 

[thunderchild]

Toocrazy:

As I have said before, "Live and let live". And I WON'T be suffering from any "owner-embarrasment". I like trucks, period. I will continue to drive trucks, period. Others can disagree but it doesn't bother me. Put diesels in trucks and they will get 20 mpg or more. That is my deepest wish. Make only 2 type of gasoline instead of the hundreds of different types they make now for all the different state and county requirements. It is easy to do. It will take a little time but I would bet you my left... arm, that one day we will have the high mileage that we are looking for and I and others will still be driving... trucks. "High mileage trucks, albeit. And, by the way I do enjoy an occassional romp in my little Audi. But for daily , everyday, DC metro "beatemup" streets, I will be driving my truck.

 

[q2bruiser]

I am one of those folks who wishes the government would stay out of our lives but they are only doing what we have allowed/told them to do. We, the public, want to watch TV and play with our toys and let "someone else" handle all that nitty gritty stuff like, say, running a country.

With that said, something I have found over and over in my career is constraints always bring innovation. Want an SUV that gets 30mpg? Put some restraint in place which forces the issue and one day soon you will have it. This is a paradigm which is repeated in all industries.

But, I don't want $5/gal fuel. Find another constraint ... maybe CAFE?

 

[Kestas]

quote:

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Originally posted by mechtech:
Kestas - We don't get any oil from Iraq.

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I know... so what are we doing there?

Anyhow my proposal to raise the price of gas mirrors what Lee Iacocca suggested back in the early 80's. Back then the price of gas was doing a roller coaster ride, and the auto manufacturers couldn't meet demand of the car-buying public. When I say "meet demand" I don't mean quantity, but I mean the type of cars.

Back then it took five years to bring concept to market. That means the auto manufacturers had to guess five years ahead whether the price of gas will be high or low, and whether they had to design econoboxes or big sedans (now, SUVs).

After the first oil embargo, auto manufacturers geared up to build the small cars people were demanding (and paying unholy prices for), only to later have the prices fall and find people were flocking to buy the big V8 sedans. To say the least, this can be extremely frustrating to the auto manufacturer. Anybody who manages a company knows how important it is to plan for the future, especially an industry with such huge lead times. I believe lead times are now three years. (The record is 24 months for the new Mustang.)

Lee Iacocca was proposing a way to even out this roller coaster ride for the good health of American manufacturing.

We experienced this with Katrita (Katrina/Rita). As soon as prices spiked last August and September, sales of trucks and SUVs went down to pre-1990 levels. Why??.... Because the buying public only looks one month into the future of gasoline prices when considering a purchase. Remember all the discussion back then of small car availability and how we're going to pay for the high cost of gas during Katrita? As I said, the manufacturers need to look 3-5 years into the future. The manufacturers can't yo-yo between products this quickly. This shows how vulnerable the public is to the availability of affordable cars.

On the other hand - just for discussion - I've heard thought from some people we should simply burn up all the cheap petroleum available to us as quickly as possible and save future generations from the pain of conservation. This'll put the whole world on a level playing field and eliminate the political tensions related to oil availability.

 

[LTVibe]

1. I'm in favor of people having free choice in what they drive.

2. My choice is dictated mainly by my finances. (I'm not rich

)

3. Larger vehicles are more expensive in ways other than gas:

Article:
Cost of Driving

 

[LarryL]

Just make the speed limit 55 for all those vehicles that are classified as large enough to skip CAFE regulations. Let the rice rockets and corn poppers in the Car Pool lanes and block those same CAFE exempt vehicles.

You can't add taxes because the politicians will just steal the money and waste it. If politicans really believed anything they say, they might offer a tax exemption for buying really small cars, but taking money out of their pockets will never happen. What we really need to do is start pouring more concrete for highways and start drilling our own oil. Anyone that votes against this should park their cars and ride a bicycle. Thre's no middle ground.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Just make the speed limit 55 for all those vehicles that are classified as large enough to skip CAFE regulations.

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If you've ever driven more than a couple of hours on a highway with dual speed limits (55MPH for trucks, 65MPH for cars) you would probably question the wisdom of that.

Ohio finally dumped their dual speed limits and for that I am glad.

 

[bob_ninja]

thunderchild,
If there is plenty of oil and many more reserves available then why do we have Oil Wars every 10-20 years?!?! And don't bother with the democracy and other nonsense. For Canada oil sands I know that it is much more expensive to extract than the more conventional oil fields. Current estimates are in the $20-$30 range per barrel and that doesn't ignores environmental impact costs (can't just leave a massive gaping hole in the ground). That means that future oil will be more expensive, so while supply may remain plentiful, prices will keep going higher.

I don't see what diesel fuel solves. While the efficiency is little better, overall consumption remains the same. We need much more significant improvements (such as 50%+ mpg improvements) to make a difference. Moreover, alternative fuelds such as ethanol could relieve the pressure from oil.

How would you like a 260 hp machine at 30 mpg that doesn't use any gasoline?

Saab Unveils E100 Hybrid

 

[OriginHacker21]

I agree there are tons of oil reserves... Just price will go up because it is getting harder to take out of the ground.

bob_ninja - I would seriously consider buying that car if there were some E100 stations around (Pure ethanol).

As it is, my 140HP Sunfire gets 35mpg on 10% Ethanol @ 70mph.