Tires Roaring

[DuckRyder]

So 2-3 rotations in 23000 miles is 7500 -10,000 mile rotations. Couple with no crossing of the non-drive tires. I suspect there isn't anything much wrong with he alignment.

I'd up the rotation schedule and start crossing the non-drive wheels.

 

[MParr]

So 2-3 rotations in 23000 miles is 7500 -10,000 mile rotations. Couple with no crossing of the non-drive tires. I suspect there isn't anything much wrong with he alignment.

I'd up the rotation schedule and start crossing the non-drive wheels.

I agree with upping the rotation and rotating in a crossing pattern. I do believe that something is a little off on the left rear. Too much negative camber or toed out just a bit. That left rear corner seems to be the problem. The right hand side has even tire wear from shoulder to shoulder. I need to get it right first. Then come new tires.

 

[Cujet]

The answer to the noise is tread block wear due to braking.

The leading edge of the braking tread block wears fastest. Rotating side to side can help. However, it's good to know that once tires get noisy, they don't often go back to fully quiet before they wear out.

Here is a pic of a motorcycle tire with pronounced wear due to braking:

 

[MParr]

The answer to the noise is tread block wear due to braking.

The leading edge of the braking tread block wears fastest. Rotating side to side can help. However, it's good to know that once tires get noisy, they don't often go back to fully quiet before they wear out.

Here is a pic of a motorcycle tire with pronounced wear due to braking:

Yeah, I should have rotated in a crisscross pattern. However, braking isn’t the problem with our Tiguan. It needs an alignment. The left rear corner is out just a bit.

 

[DuckRyder]

I was an alignment tech in a former life… Ive aligned cars with old fashioned gauges as well as Hunter racks and gotten them close on frame racks / measurement systems. Been to both Hunter School and Chief school as well as GMTC.

Unless you bought some specialized brackets/mounts/jigs I’d be surprised if you checking with a level is very accurate, also you would have to have been on dead level ground.

IME camber is going to have to be over a degree before it’s going to wear tires.

Do let us know the before and after,,, also any conditions on the specs? (Full tank of gas? 100 pounds in each seating position floorboard etc?)

 

[mightymousetech]

Looking forward to before and after.

 

[MParr]

Looking forward to before and after.

I’ll ask for print outs. This place is first come, first serve. So, I’m going to have to get up with the chickens. The tires are aired up to manufacturers recommendations and the gas tank is 3/4 full. I’ll know something tomorrow.

 

[Cujet]

Yeah, I should have rotated in a crisscross pattern. However, braking isn’t the problem with our Tiguan. It needs an alignment. The left rear corner is out just a bit.

I apologize for not being more clear. I'm not indicating that you have braking problems. You may have alignment issues that can cause uneven wear and that may contribute. But even if you don't have alignment issues,,,,

A vehicle can 1) accelerate, corner and brake. All at differing "G" forces. With normal driving, braking typically being the most powerful of the 3 forces by a large margin. We tend to stop fairly hard, whether we realize it or not.

Even with good sports cars, braking is the most powerful. Acceleration might be 0.2G, Cornering at the limit will be between 0.8 and 1G and braking can be as much as 1.4G, even from very high speeds.

What happens with modern cars is also quite interesting. Engineers apply MORE braking force to the rear wheels during light brake applications, to give both good feel and manage stability. (as no single tire is carrying more load and therefore less likely to skid)

This puts the "leading edge" of the tire's tread blocks under higher loads and wears the leading edge out faster. Run your hand over the tread blocks front to rear, then rear to front. You will likely feel the issue. This can cause a lot of tire noise.

 

[pcoxe]

I suspect the rubber gets harder as the tread wears and ages. Roads with coarse paving are noisier too.

 

[Eddie]

As I said before, once the tire treads are feathered due to improper rotation, then you can't correct this easily. Ed

 

[MParr]

Alright, the alignment is done. The printout is attached. Now, to find some new tires.

 

[MParr]

The replacement tires have been ordered. I’m going with Michelin Defender T&H. A set of four came in $60 lower than a set of Yokohama Geolandar CV G058. Tires are in short supply.
I cannot take the noisy Bridgestones any longer.

 

[BLND1]

The replacement tires have been ordered. I’m going with Michelin Defender T&H. A set of four came in $60 lower than a set of Yokohama Geolandar CV G058. Tires are in short supply.
I cannot take the noisy Bridgestones any longer.

Hard to go wrong with Michelin.

 

[mightymousetech]

Alright, the alignment is done. The printout is attached. Now, to find some new tires.

Looks good!

Nice tire choice too.

 

[MParr]

Hard to go wrong with Michelin.

You are correct. There isn’t a big selection of all season tires in the 215/65/17 size. On top of that, those in 99H gets even smaller. The supply is thin as well. The Yokohama Avid Ascend CV G508 were what I really wanted. The Michelin were actually second on the list. My rotation schedule will be at 6,000 miles and they will be crossed. I got the best price at my local Ford dealership. They were only $2 more each than what Tire Rack sells them for.

 

[MParr]

Alright, the alignment is done. The printout is attached. Now, to find some new tires.

I was hoping a few more of our experts would give me some feedback.

 

[DuckRyder]

I was hoping a few more of our experts would give me some feedback.

Well it does look like the LR had greater than ideal camber... and it looks like the Tech adjusted it to minimize cross camber and zero thrust angle.

I'm kinda surprised the front was not wearing the outside edges.

Should be be fine now and the Defender is a good choice IMO...

OH, I do my rotation at 5000 (half the OCI) just to make it easier to remember, and I only cross the non-drive wheels so in the case of a FWD car the fronts go straight back, the rears cross and go to the front. I use the spare to help make it easier.

 

[MParr]

Well it does look like the LR hd greater than ideal camber... and it looks like the Tech adjusted it to minimize cross camber and zero thrust angle.

I'm kinda surprised the front was not wearing the outside edges.

Should be be fine now and the Defender is a good choice IMO...

Yeah, the left side wear is pretty obvious. Heck, all four tires are roaring on smooth pavement. It’s just more pronounced on the left. I can’t wait to get the Bridgestone tires replaced. The rotation pattern that you described will be the one I will be using.

 

[930.engineering]

This Tiguan should have felt a bit odd before alignment. Let's see point for point:

front:
camber as expected within range
caster as expected within range although not ideally symmetrical
toe in has been clearly at the upper limit (both left and total)

rear:
camber not symmetrical, but we already expected it on LR slighly elevated
toe in near the lower limit (RR even toe out instead of toe in) ....

.... which along with high front toe (in) translates to the odd feeling (not stable) I
mentioned at the beginning. The lack of rear toe in along with some camber did
also cause the uneven tire wear. It's not camber alone. With the correct amount
of toe in it woudn't have been that much of an issue, if any at all.
'After' values are certainly much better than 'before' though. Your new Michelins
should wear pretty fine.

 

[MParr]

@930.engineering
Thanks for your reply. I really hope the new tires and alignment will do the trick. I have never experienced this problem with a fairly new vehicle with OEM tires. I’ve had quite a few new cars. I’ve had OEM tires wear down to 4/32” tread wear with 25,000 to 30,000 miles. The VW is my wife’s car. If I drove it more, I may have caught it earlier.