Thoughts on Subaru H3.6 Engine

[BISCUT]

I picked up a 17 Subby Outback with a CVT and 3.6H engine first week of January. I have 8k miles on it now. I drained the FF at 2200 miles and then another oil change after 5k miles. Using Mobil 1 and Fram ultra filter. I will do a UOA at the next drain/fill (6k OCI).

First I wanted to say it's not quick but its smooth and i like the 3.6. CVT is something special. No lag like a former Maxima had and it just feels really tight and responsive.

Anything come too mind on the 3.6? Anything to watch out for? PCV system info? Google doesn't return a lot on the 3.6. Barring accident my now 11 year old will be getting this in 5 and a half years and probably 170k miles on it.

 

[SatinSilver]

Wow, you traded off all the beaters for two nice cars. Very nice!

 

[Brigadier]

I'd be more worried about the CVT. My mechanic says they are failing at an alarming rate.

If your manual says it is a sealed/lifetime trans and to never service it, ignore that and find a good mechanic that will change fluid for you. Your dealer probably will refuse to do it.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: Brigadier
I'd be more worried about the CVT. My mechanic says they are failing at an alarming rate.

If your manual says it is a sealed/lifetime trans and to never service it, ignore that and find a good mechanic that will change fluid for you. Your dealer probably will refuse to do it.


Or just keep the fluid in there till the warranty is up. If it lasts through the warranty then change the fluid as soon as the warranty expires.

 

[RedOakRanch]

I have the 2.5 but I can tell you that's is is really cool that you can change all the fluids at home if you want to. Both diffs and trans have drain and fill holes that are accessable! I had the dealer do the front diff and CVT at 24k just because it won't be back for a long time. I added the Fumoto on the last oil change, no leaks yet...

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Or just keep the fluid in there till the warranty is up. If it lasts through the warranty then change the fluid as soon as the warranty expires.


This is probably what I would so. Otherwise I would tend to avoid any car with a CVT or Dual Clutch, at least for the foreseeable future. I know some are better then others, and you can maybe sometimes do OK by avoiding Jatco CVT's (mostly used in Nissan/Infinity/Mitsubishi/Suzuki/Dodge/Jeep) and Ford DCT's, but I'd prefer not to be the proverbial guinei pig.

 

[NateDN10]

Originally Posted By: Brigadier
I'd be more worried about the CVT. My mechanic says they are failing at an alarming rate.

If your manual says it is a sealed/lifetime trans and to never service it, ignore that and find a good mechanic that will change fluid for you. Your dealer probably will refuse to do it.

My in-laws just had the CVT fail on their Outback at about 150K miles. Fluid had never been changed and was reportedly black and thick!

 

[Brigadier]

Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
I'd be more worried about the CVT. My mechanic says they are failing at an alarming rate.

If your manual says it is a sealed/lifetime trans and to never service it, ignore that and find a good mechanic that will change fluid for you. Your dealer probably will refuse to do it.

My in-laws just had the CVT fail on their Outback at about 150K miles. Fluid had never been changed and was reportedly black and thick!


What does the manual say about servicing it?

 

[tojo1968]

Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
I'd be more worried about the CVT. My mechanic says they are failing at an alarming rate.

If your manual says it is a sealed/lifetime trans and to never service it, ignore that and find a good mechanic that will change fluid for you. Your dealer probably will refuse to do it.

My in-laws just had the CVT fail on their Outback at about 150K miles. Fluid had never been changed and was reportedly black and thick!


What does the manual say about servicing it?

This:
There is no fluid level gauge. It is
unnecessary to check the continuously
variable transmission fluid level. However,
if necessary, consult your SUBARU dealer
for inspection.

And this:
At all requested
service intervals from 0 to 137,500 miles...Inspect CVT fluid

 

[JTK]

That engine has been around for a long time and you rarely, if ever hear of issues with them. The Lineartronic CVT has been around in the Legacy and (I believe) Outback since 2010 on the 4cyl models. I've been following Subaru CVTs since 2011 when I got my 2012 Legacy and the only "failures" I've read of are reported on BITOG. There's a few good Subaru boards with lots of DIY info.

 

[gathermewool]

Like my Forester, I believe his outback comes with a high torque CVT or HTCVT. It really fits he 2.0DIT well, and I'm sure it's just as pleasant in your Outback, even with a different engine. For reference, I traded my 08 STI for the Foz and was pleasantly surprised by how nice the aforementioned drive-train was/is.

I plan to change out the diff fluids at 50k and also have someone drain and refill the CVT around the same time. I'm hoping to keep the Foz for a long time.

 

[BISCUT]

Thats odd. CVT's as I know em are basically made in 2 places. 1 is owned by Nissan and they have had some serious issues dating back to my 07 Nissan. From a few different boards, Subby CVT's have a pretty good reputation. Guess I'll have to see.

I will drain and fill every 30k. It's so easy on Subby your crazy not too. Use Subby fluid and have at it.

 

[BISCUT]

Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
I'd be more worried about the CVT. My mechanic says they are failing at an alarming rate.

If your manual says it is a sealed/lifetime trans and to never service it, ignore that and find a good mechanic that will change fluid for you. Your dealer probably will refuse to do it.

My in-laws just had the CVT fail on their Outback at about 150K miles. Fluid had never been changed and was reportedly black and thick!


Sounds like that is the typical AT senario. I'm not saying any one is better than the other. But no service and it makes it to 150k.

 

[BISCUT]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Or just keep the fluid in there till the warranty is up. If it lasts through the warranty then change the fluid as soon as the warranty expires.


This is probably what I would so. Otherwise I would tend to avoid any car with a CVT or Dual Clutch, at least for the foreseeable future. I know some are better then others, and you can maybe sometimes do OK by avoiding Jatco CVT's (mostly used in Nissan/Infinity/Mitsubishi/Suzuki/Dodge/Jeep) and Ford DCT's, but I'd prefer not to be the proverbial guinei pig.


I'm no CVT seeker....but they arent new. I had one of the "bad" ones in my mothers 2007 Maxima. bad enough Nissan gave it a 120k warranty. Mine was strong and never failed. That Nissan was a great vehicle...until post 120k and it had ring issues. Only other issue ever was rear hubs...which made it seem a CVT issue...but it was hubs. The issue cased activation of traction control which felt like CVT problems.

All I did was drain and fill CVT a few times at 90k or so.

 

[BISCUT]

I'm with you bro. It's a car...kinda. Changing oil on the Subby is even easier than the F150...and that's pretty easy. [censored], the CVT drain is like right there too.

 

[PimTac]

The CVTs out of Jatco had their problems a few years ago, especially around 2014. Since then they have improved and the new ones are much more durable. CVTs get a bad reputation due to the early problems plus American drivers are used to the automatic and how it shifts.

I used to be leary of CVTs but recently I have come to appreciate them versus today's modern automatics which shift up quickly and hold higher gears longer. I almost sense the engine is lugging sometimes and it requires me to push the throttle down just to get the transmission to shift to a lower gear. The CAFE rules have pushed the automakers to do everything possible to increase fuel economy sometimes at the sake of poorly responding transmissions.

As mentioned above, changing the fluid will go a long ways to give your cvt a long life. No fluid lasts a lifetime.

 

[bbhero]

My Altima has 184k miles on the original CVT fluid. Going to drain and refill two times coming up soon.

 

[BufordTJustice]

I have a 2011 Outback 3.6R with the 5EAT transmission. Currently 98k miles and running like a sewing machine. Excellent vehicle and excellent engine.

Keys to the kingdom:

5,000 mile oil change intervals. I use PP Ultra Plat 5w30 from Walmart online and Fram Ultra 3593A filters.

Drain and refill the diffs at 50k miles. They take Mobil-1 75w-90 LS gear lube. I add the proscribed amount of Lubeguard HD Gear Protectant as a safety buffer; diffs are now silent and coast down tests seem to lead me to think that friction has been reduced over only using Mobil-1 75w-90.

Do a drain and fill on the CVT at 30k, 60k, 90k, and then again at 120k (you'll get roughly 3-5 quarts out). You can do this yourself.

I installed GoldPlug neodymium drain plugs in the engine and trans as neither had a magnet from the factory.

Subaru CVT fluid is actually very good quality, but expensive. I use Amsoil Signature ATF in my 5 speed auto and have been very pleased with it. I'd contact Amsoil about their CVT fluid (which basically fixed my 2013 Altima 3.5's CVT and allowed me to trade it in on my Outback). Very good CVT fluid coming from Amsoil. Very good.

Also, use a turkey baster or equivalent to drain and refill the power steering reservoir every 25k miles. I add some Lubeguard Red into mine in the proscribed proportion. Took the pump from quiet to completely silent. Thicker ATF seems to be preferred by the PS pump (Amsoil Signature or Mobil 1 Dex III over a lighter fluid like Valv MaxLife Dex/Merc).

When you change your air filter, go to youtube. Save some headache.


My actual fill on my 98k Subaru for this last oil change was 1.5 quarts of Pennzoil Ultra 0w-40 (from autozone clearance), 5 quarts of Pennzoil Ultra Plat 5w30, and one 300ml container of LiquiMoly Ceratec. Engine takes nearly 7 quarts of oil (6.98 or some ridiculously odd number like that). Great for hot climates. I live in Central Florida, and it gets stupid hot and humid down here (with humidity also decreasing cooling effectiveness).

If you tow, get an auxiliary ATF cooler kit from B&M. CVTs hate heat.

 

[BufordTJustice]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
The CVTs out of Jatco had their problems a few years ago, especially around 2014. Since then they have improved and the new ones are much more durable. CVTs get a bad reputation due to the early problems plus American drivers are used to the automatic and how it shifts.

I used to be leary of CVTs but recently I have come to appreciate them versus today's modern automatics which shift up quickly and hold higher gears longer. I almost sense the engine is lugging sometimes and it requires me to push the throttle down just to get the transmission to shift to a lower gear. The CAFE rules have pushed the automakers to do everything possible to increase fuel economy sometimes at the sake of poorly responding transmissions.

As mentioned above, changing the fluid will go a long ways to give your cvt a long life. No fluid lasts a lifetime.



Good info and correct. Speaking specifically to the 2013+ JATCO/Nissan X-tronic CVTs, with the wider ratio spread, a couple things were traded for better EPA numbers.

1) They reduced the overall fluid level in the transmission and reduced "pumping losses". So, fewer parts at the bottom were immersed in fluid during operation (which hampers heat transfer to the fluid)

2) They reduced the overall fluid capacity of the transmission. From between 12 and 14 quarts to between 7 & 9 quarts.

3) They transitioned to NS-3 ultra low viscosity CVT fluid. It makes 0w-20 engine oil feel like 20w-50. It, pardon the analogy, feels like slippery water in your fingers.


These three things brought my 2013 Altima the death shudder at 22k miles in Sunny Florida. Unacceptable.

Several drain and refills with Amsoil fixed my problem and the Amsoil is slightly thicker than the Nissan NS-3 fluid (and cheaper).


The CVT in my 2013 3.5S was very well suited to the big V6, and returned shocking mileage when driven moderately, in traffic. My wife averaged over 28mpg, in the heat, AC blasting, with 50/50 stop/go traffic and congested-highway. This was an average over ~10k miles. Only had a K&N drop-in filter. Just stunningly good.

But our outback returns 25+ on the same loop with all Amsoil in the 5EAT trans, Mobil-1 + Lubeguard in the diffs, and good engine oil.

 

[bluesubie]

I wouldn't even bother with "synthetic" in the 3.6 since it is not "required". I'm sure a 6k mile OCI would be no problem for a good conventional oil these days. Of course, stick with Mobil 1 if it helps you sleep better at night.

Subaru replaces the CVT if it fails and does not repair them. I see no benefit in changing the fluid while you're under the 5 yr/60k Powertrain warranty. Or maybe just one change at 30k miles. Doesn't the maintenance guide recommend replacing every 30k if driven in severe conditions?

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/maintenance-2017.html