When I bought it
and currently @
Those with 150,000 miles or more, check in
- Thread starter Patman
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When I bought it
and currently @sfasts03, Thank you for the details you provided. It's quite informative.
So your oil consumption seems due to dirty oil control rings on the pistons, possibly caused by the repetitive short trips.
Sounds like you did everything right: Using full synthetic oil and changing when the maintenance minder reached 15%. 208,000 / 50 oil changes would be an average OCI of 4,160 miles and it sounded like you were doing oil changes every 4 to 5 months.
I hope it's ok if I ask a few more questions, as it is helping me to understand these vehicles better.
[1] Out of the 50 oil changes you did, how many of them were with 30 weight oils,
and did the van see 20 weight oils exclusively up until the point where it started consuming a lot of oil?
[2] Was the 1st pcv valve change after the car started consuming large amounts of oil?
[3] Knowing what you know now, if you had it to do all over again, what oil change interval in miles/months, and what oil viscosity from day 1 would you choose? In your opinion,would that have made a difference to prevent the sludge/varnish/oil consumption.
Thanks
I mostly try to run the 5w-30 and recently the 0w-30 in the warmer months, and the 0w-20 and 5w-20 in the colder months.
At the beginning I just ran 5w-20 for the 1st couple of years. Varnish and sludge and moisture under the fill cap all started very on in the vans life.
I recognized the moisture under the fill cap and the beginning of trouble and changed the PCV very early on. Probably around 25,000 miles.
So what is interesting is my brother in-law had the same exact van, just different color. He did 2 things different. He did not short trip his and he ran Mobil1 5w-20 and Mobil1 5w-20 EP its whole life following the OLM and the inside of the oil fill hole was spotless.
He traded his 2006 EXL in w/ 180,000 miles on a new `18 Odyssey. HIs `06 was giving him trouble with 1 or 2 rear cylinders giving him a misfire code that plugs and swapping coils didn't resolve. He never did the valve adjustment. My guess is he was getting a burnt valve or a valve hanging up.
I think the reality is the duty (short trip) stuff is what made the engine a mess inside.
The moisture emulsifies with the oil causing sludge.
The extreme heat of the front bank running in VCM oxidizes the oil causing varnish.
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Thanks zfast03. You're providing such great info. Thanks. I have four 2006/2007 Honda Odysseys with VCM enabled so the info you are providing is very helpful. .In your first 25,000 .miles when the sludge / varnish accumulation happened early were you getting the oil changed at the dealership with their bulk oil as many new car buyers do? I assume dealer would be using conventional 5W-20.
Also do you think the oil consumption is due to dirty piston rings or due to the sludge limiting oil pressure so not enough lubrication to moving parts hence engine wear allowing more oil to be burned?
All oil changes were done by myself. Full Synthetic, mid grade and high end filters. Consumption probably from wear and deposits with the rings. When I saw the deposits early on, I began slightly more frequent oil changes.
So at the beginning I was trying for that 5,6, 7000 mile change interval and quickly found out it wasn't working for this engine and the usage. So 5,000 max or OLM at 15% for me.
When I did the valve adjustment at 168,000. The sludge was mostly accumulated on the top of the rocker arms and the underside of the front valve cover. Time did not permit for me to do a tedious cleanup of the sludge, so back together it went.
If the valve cover are ever off again, I will allocate the necessary time and access to a parts washer.
I don't believe there is or was ever an oil pressure issue. The parts that have high flow, seem to be the cleanest. The parts like the underside of the covers and where the oil doesn't have much movement is where it looked the worst. The underside of the front valve cover is real bad probably impairing some PCV operation.
There is a lot of hours on this engine. We have even ran it for 2 hours at a time idling just for AC for the pets, when eating in a restaurant and ran it for heat in the winter for 1-2 hours at a time in the winter. Lots of stop and go city driving. Like I said it has been through a lot.
One more thing to note:
I sent an oil sample out about 7 years ago for analysis to CAT. They said iron content was high. Particles were attracted to magnet.
The engine runs great, so I keep it topped off an keep running it.
2007 Mazda 3, 215k miles and still strong. Amsoil at 7k oil change intervals.
Great info. Thanks.
Do you think most of the sludge/varnish happened in the beginning when you were doing 6k or 7k OCI's, or did the sludge/varnish also accumulate during your 5k OCI's also during the rest of the life of the vehicle?
I have a clean engine now, but am trying to figure out if I do 5k / 6 month OCI's for the next 100k miles, would I still have a clean engine. Usage is short trips combined with long daily commutes of 70+ miles a day at highway speeds. Problem with the highway driving is VCM and eco light on dashboard are on nearly all the time as I set the cruise control at the speed limit (either 55 MPH or 65 MPH).
So it would only be running on 3 cylinders most of the time with the front cylinder heads at high temperatures, cooking the oil during the highway driving.
Would a 5k/6 month OCI with a Dexos 1 Gen 3 full synthetic oil (with Noack volitility still keep the engine clean in your opinion?
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Probably be fine with 5k/6. The longer drives will burn off moisture. Select an oil that hold up to heat well. I was impressed with my BIL's with Mobil 1.
Might want to look into a VCM muzzler. https://www.odyclub.com/ has endless discussion on this and the pros and cons of each.
Probably the engine is prone to sludge etc. you’re doing everything you could. Just topping up and drive and until the end of car. My friend mechanic live to say” don’t do anything with 20 years car - drive and change oil 1 year or 10k kilometres”
I have Toyota Corolla 2004 not using oil mileage unknown (practice in Europe when you re buying second hand car- the odometer is always 156 k kilometres), so l tried different grades 5w30, 5w40 and now 0w40 Mobil fs , I make a few kilometres probably 4-5 k per year, mostly highway and in the mountains trips. The engine is running find, but the rust, paint , scratches from other vehicles are present and are expensive to repair. My changes are 1 year or 1 year and a half with Mann or wix, fram silver filters. The oil are different acea a3/b4 mostly or a5/b5, the engine doesn’t care, easy on oil at this forgiving regime. Of course I changed several times coolant every 3 or 4 years.
Thanks zfasts03 for all the info. Sorry, what does BIL's stand for.
brother in law
93' C1500 w right around 150k- haven't driven it in awhile can't remember exactly. 04 Expedition at 204k and Element at 223k. Just sold my 92 Olds Cutlass Supreme that had 232k
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This thing is now at 179,000 miles. Still no issues. Valves are loud, but no check engine lights ever. Exhaust formed a leak, since repaired, and this winter new tires will be needed. Paint looks like it’s hit everything but the lottery, but other than that this thing is still going strong!
Skipping the valve adjustment comes with risk.
It was every 90,000 on my 4Runner. At 90 and 180 it was all in spec.
At 270,000, an exhaust valve was out of spec and had to be re-shimmed.
One of the reasons that engine made it to 370,000+ (last I heard) was ensuring that valve clearance stayed in spec.
The million mile Accord owner skipped a valve clearance check and burnt a valve at about 900,000. Ran it to a million on five cylinders.
If he had only done the check, he would’ve hit a million with an engine running well, not limping.
Technically true, but there is a way to get an idea of your valve adjustment without disassembly.
Insufficient valve clearance due to valve seat recession can cause misfires and that was an issue during that era of J-series engines. Not so much nowadays.
