thin perhaps not as good as i thought

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Originally Posted By: Trav
Desert tested absolutely fail safe cooling system.


So your advice to demarpaint before he goes on his boat towing trip is to check his coolant system, not to put in 30 weight?

And what did taxi testing in Minnesota prove? That the heating system worked?

You don't think that they tore down the engines to analyze the results of their torture testing before they asserted that in some cases 20 weight peformed better? You don't think they would have taken the opportunity to look at the physical results to learn more about engine design?

In your world, they couldn't wait to go party with their CAFE & EPA buddies, right?
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4

Perhaps, I am not seeing the big picture here...


Well, the "chest pounding" on my part has to do with what I view as a ridiculous assertion: that the government, via CAFE standards, is forcing people to run sub-optimal oil in their cars. I've seen zero evidence to support it, yet it gets thrown around non-stop. In the end of the day, as long has you have enough in there and you change it every now and then, most engines will be just fine...


No, to keep it short it was about no longer having the choice of which oil grade to use. Some of us don't like the one size fits all mentality, and feel we can make the choice for ourselves based on how a vehicle is used.
 
Quote:
In your world, they couldn't wait to go party with their CAFE & EPA buddies, right?

No offense Mark but if thats all you concluded from my postings it says your pretty much done and finished.

Its a ridiculous question not even worthy of a thoughtful reply. Now its just getting silly.
I guess its time to call it a day and move on.
I'm done.
 
Originally Posted By: MarkStock
Originally Posted By: Trav
Desert tested absolutely fail safe cooling system.


So your advice to demarpaint before he goes on his boat towing trip is to check his coolant system, not to put in 30 weight?

And what did taxi testing in Minnesota prove? That the heating system worked?

You don't think that they tore down the engines to analyze the results of their torture testing before they asserted that in some cases 20 weight peformed better? You don't think they would have taken the opportunity to look at the physical results to learn more about engine design?

In your world, they couldn't wait to go party with their CAFE & EPA buddies, right?


No he doesn't have to tell me how to check my Jeep, I can do that and tune it up too.
 
I agree with MarkStock.

I would also add there are many high mileage Corvettes and Mustangs that have used nothing but 20 grade and low 30 grade (Mobil 1 5w30) oil.

Ford's 5w20 outperformed their 5w30 in their testing.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
In your world, they couldn't wait to go party with their CAFE & EPA buddies, right?

No offense Mark but if thats all you concluded from my postings it says your pretty much done and finished.

Its a ridiculous question not even worthy of a thoughtful reply. Now its just getting silly.
I guess its time to call it a day and move on.
I'm done.


Before you go, was that 2004 4.0 Ford engine the one with the problem timing chain at the back of the engine? Didn't the engine have to be pulled to change that chain? They use 5W30 in that beast didn't they?
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
In your world, they couldn't wait to go party with their CAFE & EPA buddies, right?

No offense Mark but if thats all you concluded from my postings it says your pretty much done and finished.

Its a ridiculous question not even worthy of a thoughtful reply. Now its just getting silly.
I guess its time to call it a day and move on.
I'm done.


You do realize it was a rhetorical question don't you? (No need to answer this non-rhetorical question)
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
It's also been covered many times that a 5W-30 tends to shear rather quickly, so after about 1000 miles you would pretty much have a 5W-20 anyway. If you are running 5W-30 and 5K OCIs, you're pretty much running 5W-20 about 80% of the time.

Its also been posted many times that 20w doesn't shear much.
This brings me back to a question i had.
If 30w shears so easily and 20w doesn't why not spec 20w in the first place?

Ford wouldn't dare try 20w in the 2004 4.0 even though every other engine they offered that year was spec for 20w.
Its not like they didn't have time to make "improvements" to the oiling system but according to you it shouldn't matter because it was running 20w 80% of the time anyway.

Why does Ford spec 5w30 today in many more engines than they did in 04?
Almost 9 years has gone by since then for 20w to be even more improved but no, they spec 30w and even 50w in some engines.



Obviously they must have some reason to spec 5W-30 for the 4.0, but apparently many Ford dealers have been ignoring that spec and putting 5W-20 in them anyway.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: MarkStock
Originally Posted By: Trav
Desert tested absolutely fail safe cooling system.


So your advice to demarpaint before he goes on his boat towing trip is to check his coolant system, not to put in 30 weight?

And what did taxi testing in Minnesota prove? That the heating system worked?

You don't think that they tore down the engines to analyze the results of their torture testing before they asserted that in some cases 20 weight peformed better? You don't think they would have taken the opportunity to look at the physical results to learn more about engine design?

In your world, they couldn't wait to go party with their CAFE & EPA buddies, right?


No he doesn't have to tell me how to check my Jeep, I can do that and tune it up too.


With a bit of luck your 5w20 will have thickened up to a 5w30 and you'll be saved.
 
Originally Posted By: MarkStock
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: MarkStock
Originally Posted By: Trav
Desert tested absolutely fail safe cooling system.


So your advice to demarpaint before he goes on his boat towing trip is to check his coolant system, not to put in 30 weight?

And what did taxi testing in Minnesota prove? That the heating system worked?

You don't think that they tore down the engines to analyze the results of their torture testing before they asserted that in some cases 20 weight peformed better? You don't think they would have taken the opportunity to look at the physical results to learn more about engine design?

In your world, they couldn't wait to go party with their CAFE & EPA buddies, right?


No he doesn't have to tell me how to check my Jeep, I can do that and tune it up too.


With a bit of luck your 5w20 will have thickened up to a 5w30 and you'll be saved.


If its as good as you claim it is it should stay in grade shouldn't it?
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
If its as good as you claim it is it should stay in grade shouldn't it?


In your case, I would be worried about what Jeep & the EPA have planned for you. There's a conspiracy, haven't you heard?
 
Originally Posted By: MarkStock
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
If its as good as you claim it is it should stay in grade shouldn't it?


In your case, I would be worried about what Jeep & the EPA have planned for you. There's a conspiracy, haven't you heard?


I'll pass, at the risk of getting a time out. You seem think you can read minds, take a guess at what I'm thinking. I bet you'll get it right too.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

No, to keep it short it was about no longer having the choice of which oil grade to use. Some of us don't like the one size fits all mentality, and feel we can make the choice for ourselves based on how a vehicle is used.


?? Frank, you do have a choice: A)put in whatever oil you want, or B) take advantage of the LIFETIME WARRANTY offered on your car's engine and use the specified lubricant.

How are your options limited? The mfg is assuming 100% of the risk for the entire time you own the car. Alternatively, you can take the "I know better" route and make your own choice.

In my case, I plan on keeping my car well past the warranty, so if I thought the warranty requirements were sub-optimal, I'd use something else--but I wouldn't view this as a "lack of choice", just a reasoned decision on my part.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

No, to keep it short it was about no longer having the choice of which oil grade to use. Some of us don't like the one size fits all mentality, and feel we can make the choice for ourselves based on how a vehicle is used.


?? Frank, you do have a choice: A)put in whatever oil you want, or B) take advantage of the LIFETIME WARRANTY offered on your car's engine and use the specified lubricant.

How are your options limited? The mfg is assuming 100% of the risk for the entire time you own the car. Alternatively, you can take the "I know better" route and make your own choice.

In my case, I plan on keeping my car well past the warranty, so if I thought the warranty requirements were sub-optimal, I'd use something else--but I wouldn't view this as a "lack of choice", just a reasoned decision on my part.


How's this JOD. I can use whatever oil I want, and still retain the warranty, its really quite simple. I can have my cake and eat it too.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint


How's this JOD. I can use whatever oil I want, and still retain the warranty, its really quite simple. I can have my cake and eat it too.


That seems completely unreasonable to me. The mfg is supplying you with the warranty, it seems they should be able to specify what lubricant is used. You can't use whatever brake fluid, power steering fluid, trans. fluid etc.

If you feel you know better than they do, it seems to me you should be the one assuming the risk. It's cool if you disagree, that's just the way I see it.
 
Same Honda who are reducing their bearing radial clearances, and increasing the projected surface areas to improve the safety margin running 20 (and lower) oils ?

Both actions increase the drag of these energy conserving oils.

As to the linked puff piece, note that the back spec is to reduce greenhouse emissions - the new CAFE
 
From the slides

Honda has used 0W-20 as factory- and service-fill oil in various vehicles for over 10 years. These vehicles were certified with higher viscosity grades, due to the lack of 0W-20 oils in the US market

The transition to lower viscosity oils reflects advancements in engine technology, and also Honda’s commitment to lowering the CO2 footprint of our vehicles

Honda already applied 0W-20 oil to the Japan and EU markets from the 2001 model year

Beginning in that model year, many US Honda and Acura models were designed to operate on 0W-20 viscosity grade (or below!), but this grade was not widely available in the market.
 
Originally Posted By: MarkStock
Here's a great read that gives some insight on Honda's move to 0w20.

http://www.infineum.com/sitecollectiondocuments/notebooks/gf5/J Jetter Honda 042109.pdf

Looking forward to seeing how this gets twisted.

Ok I'm impressed. That's gotta be the second biggest 1.5% I've ever seen.
wink.gif


333bwhi.png
 
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