Am i wasting perfectly good oil ?

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Maricopa Arizona
Originally Posted by nascarnation
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
85% ethanol does, yes.
Does using E85 change the vehicle OLM life calculation?
It should because fuel used is a factor in calculating oil life.
 
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33
Location
United States
I think 10k miles is OK if you're running 229.5 spec 5W40 and with your driving style. The concern regarding the E85 is about it diluting the oil, but if you're not driving short distances in the cold, then it should not be an issue (such as Honda 1.5T driving long vs short distance and the oil dilution issue it faces). You appear to be doing plenty of highway for the gas to evaporate out of the crankcase. With certs such as 229.5, Mercedes-benz approves that it lubes their engines sufficiently and for how long they spec oil change intervals, ie GM wouldn't have Dexos certification/approve an oil as "dexos approved" and think it wouldn't work fine for the intervals they spec. Plus you said your engine is clean, so 10k shouldn't be a problem imo. Source: work at a MB dealer. I have never seen an oil related failure from 10,000 OCIs (also specified for your vehicle). Even the twin turbo DI engines of these days still specify 229.5 at 10,000 intervals, and they are perfectly fine with 10,000 miles oil changes.
 
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2,107
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South Carolina
I think his continued use of E85 changes my thinking of his OCI. He is wanting to run and keep these vehicles for a long time. In that case I would reconsider the use of E85 and justify the extra cost of straight petrol as an investment for the life of the vehicle. Cannot have it both ways.
 

M119

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322
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Brittany, France
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
I think his continued use of E85 changes my thinking of his OCI. He is wanting to run and keep these vehicles for a long time. In that case I would reconsider the use of E85 and justify the extra cost of straight petrol as an investment for the life of the vehicle. Cannot have it both ways.
Good comment. I've done a lot of research about wear and E85 and i did not find anything convincing showing more wear with E85 but i'm still very interested if someone has anything to say about that.
 
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Carson City
You can thank the powerful farm lobby and DC swamp for the entire ethanol fiasco to the detriment of car owners. Ethanol is not good for anything but one thing. It raises the octane level in gas by about 2 points that's it. It has over 30% less energy content of gasoline so it also affects MPG. Been lucky here in Northern Nevada where ethanol free gas is plentiful and cost about the same as supreme. And that's what I've been using in my Golf since I bought it. My Aver. MPG between 47-49 feels great too according to my Google Sheets gas fill data.
 
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8,023
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Michigan
I would normally say 8000 miles easily for an oil change. But given the steady use of E85, 6000 sounds safe. It's too bad that oil analysis is so expensive over there, or I would recommend UOA's to guide setting an OCI based on data.
 
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1,269
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Brittany / Canada
Are you in Lanester, by any chance? As other suggested, I would do a UOA and see from there, as it's hard to tell with E85. The Total 229.5 oil is I think an excellent choice. As for oil analysis, if you find a container thinner than 3cm with the enveloppe (I used hotel shampoo bottles...no shame!) you can keep shipping to the US under 10€ And total cost of UOA under 40€.
 

M119

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Originally Posted by Popsy
Are you in Lanester, by any chance? As other suggested, I would do a UOA and see from there, as it's hard to tell with E85. The Total 229.5 oil is I think an excellent choice. As for oil analysis, if you find a container thinner than 3cm with the enveloppe (I used hotel shampoo bottles...no shame!) you can keep shipping to the US under 10€ And total cost of UOA under 40€.
I've been reading a lot of your posts here ! Sounds like an option Indeed. I'm from Rennes by the way. Do you have an opinion on Total Quartz 10W50 ? If fuel dilution is a concern it might be an option over the regular Quartz 9000 5W40.
 
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1,269
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Brittany / Canada
I used it in my Barchetta, it seems like a thicker version of the 5W40. Maybe in your diesel, haha ? I'm not sure that would be a good idea to go that thick, the Quartz 9000 5w40 Energy is already on the thick side...and fuel dilution shouldn't be a problem for port injected a daily driver, if everything is running as it should! That said I have a friend using that Total 10w50 (it's on the thin side of 50, if that makes sense) in his oil burning Alfa 147 with good success, his car has more than 320000Km wink
 
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Originally Posted by js1956
You can thank the powerful farm lobby and DC swamp for the entire ethanol fiasco to the detriment of car owners.
Really? You're blaming "DC swamp" for E85 in France?
 

M119

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Originally Posted by circuitsmith
Originally Posted by js1956
You can thank the powerful farm lobby and DC swamp for the entire ethanol fiasco to the detriment of car owners.
Really? You're blaming "DC swamp" for E85 in France?
I was asking myself the same question. To answer you Popsy, i was just curious about the 10W-50 but can't justify anything that thick. Considering my driving style and the fact i have a 1.8 engine with a 6L sump, a 5W-30 might just be good enough if you think about it (owner's manual says i can use anything from 0W-30 to 20W-50) but i will stick to xW-40. Does the ratio between my engine's displacement and the fairly large sump could justify longer OCI ?
 
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35,250
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NY
Originally Posted by Gebo
I would stay at 5K max. Look at how well your cars are lasting. Seems you have been doing something right.
I agree.
 
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Gulf Coast
Bingo! Yet not a single other reply. Thank you for a breath of fresh air! By the time you've spent the money to establish trend you've spent far more than the cost of a single oil and filter change. That is, as long as your sump doesn't hold 12 or 15 gallons.
 
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49
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Gulf Coast
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Let me give you the correct answer so you can make the best "risk based" and "business based" decision as fits your circumstances. This is the same question I get asked by every client I do a lubrication program for and the answer is universal whether its a gearbox at a mine in Grasberg or your car in your garage. Assuming you have a quality oil that meets the needs of your application...……. The oil will last (last being defined as serviceable for the application) until either the base oil and/or the additive package is depleted to the point that it no longer meets a requirement or contamination rises to the level where it can cause damage. That's it. That's he only correct definition of "bad" oil that needs changing. In an ICE there is no direct correlation between "miles" and oil life because there are too many variables. ( driving habits, fuel selection, engine wear, environmentals etc.)- even air filter choice. The only way to know is via oil sample and even then you have to have all the right tests done to get a full spectrum analysis as it pertains to your application. Once you have that then it needs to be trended in order to match with changing patterns and progressive wear of the vehicle because all that will have a direct affect on oil life. Then comes the value based decision ( where lubrication management ends and machine health begins)- how far toward end of life ( where a parameter is "acceptable" or "marginal" rather than optimum) do you want to go? This is where a slight trade off of "changing an older serviceable oil" with "newer serviceable oil" favoring higher asset protection over cost of oil versus taking an oil closer to "end of life" at the risk of a fraction of potential (not an absolute guarantee) of wear to the asset has to be made. Its not as much about guts as it is about making the informed choice with the proper supporting data in your personal vehicle maintenance plan and budget. If you think an extended change frequency is best for the wallet- you are right If you think a reduced change frequency is best for the vehicle- you are right The question is what's best for you in your overall plan?
Bingo! Yet not a single other reply. Thank you for the breath of fresh air. By the time you've spent the money to establish trend you've spent far more than the cost of a single oil and filter change. That is, as long as your sump doesn't hold 12 or 15 gallons. Since the manufacturer has already done the hard work simply following their recommendations results in the best results.
 
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1,390
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Indiana
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by nascarnation
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
85% ethanol does, yes.
Does using E85 change the vehicle OLM life calculation?
It should because fuel used is a factor in calculating oil life.
Is that a statement of fact, or opinion? I was hoping someone familiar with the OEM algorithms could inform us on the effect of E85 as viewed by the folks who actually design and develop and validate engines.
 

M119

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322
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Brittany, France
Originally Posted by nascarnation
Is that a statement of fact, or opinion? I was hoping someone familiar with the OEM algorithms could inform us on the effect of E85 as viewed by the folks who actually design and develop and validate engines.
That's exactly what i'm looking for too.
 
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4,028
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Ca.
Originally Posted by nascarnation
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by nascarnation
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
85% ethanol does, yes.
Does using E85 change the vehicle OLM life calculation?
It should because fuel used is a factor in calculating oil life.
Is that a statement of fact, or opinion? I was hoping someone familiar with the OEM algorithms could inform us on the effect of E85 as viewed by the folks who actually design and develop and validate engines.
I can only proffer that Ive done more than the average guys research on OLM systems and have never seen an E85 modifier in any of the algorithms posted here or elsewhere. Doesn't mean Im current however. The GM system is similar to Hondas in that they both use a branched penalty table based on a variety of variables - haven't seen e85 or any fuel modifier in those. You can get a pretty good idea by this older honda OLM doc. On the software side it looks like everyones analysis tables are pretty similar. I know Hondas has had close to a decade of refinement and that the 17 ridgeleine was one of the vehicles with the new recalcs. UD
 

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1,967
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Originally Posted by nascarnation
Is that a statement of fact, or opinion? I was hoping someone familiar with the OEM algorithms could inform us on the effect of E85 as viewed by the folks who actually design and develop and validate engines.
Not engines per se but other types and have provided data for the programmers who write this software so call it a detailed working familiarity with the process. The answer would be its not a factual claim but I wont address the intent of the poster because plenty of people "claim" it in error. All of these algorithms are complex formulae based on laboratory decay rates provided from various sources ( machine design, oil developer, OEM performance requirements and so forth) They are based on constants ( pressure, shear, tolerances, speed, temperature and so forth) over a time Any type of dilution can never be mathematically calculated because of the complexity of all the elements and the effects For example- the grade of gas and % ethanol versus the metering volume into the oil referencing the volume divided by everything else. Something like that would be a severe challenge to even create and then you would have to "recreate" it for every type of car, base oil, various wear rates and everything else. Let those who 'claim" it produce even a test model ( even an invalid one)- the deafening sound of the silence should answer the question then. I would love to see that calculation and I know others would too.
 
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