Keep using A3/B4 or?

[mdocod]

I've been running A3/B4 oils in our XC70 and H3 for years at 5K intervals. I took a liking to A3/B4's years ago when frequenting this forum around the time of the green German Castrol 0W30 "craze." I recently added a 2012 S60 T6 to our fleet of oddball cars and fed it the same for its first oil change from me.

I remember going out and searching for and hoarding GC bottles back in the day. These days, I don't discriminate as much on oil selection and just pick up whatever A3/B4 in 0W30, 0W40, 5W30, or 5w40 that I can find at Walmart in 5qt jugs.. I've found A3/B4's from Castrol, Mobile, and Pensoil at WM. Whatever is available and/or best price I use. I usually try to avoid the 5w40 when going into winter or thin it down with some 0W20 (~2:5 ratio of 0w20 to 5w40).

The 05 XC70 and H3 both call for modernish API 5W30 here in the states, but overseas the XC70 with the same engine calls for A5/B5.
The 12 S60 calls for A5/B5.

I've always sort of liked the idea of the "headroom" afforded by A3/B4 in terms of TBN and HTHS, even though I really don't utilize the available TBN at ~5K intervals.

I've begun to notice less A3/B4's and more A5/B5's available at WM. Beginning to wonder if these cars would be better served by A5/B5 oil?

What oil would you run in a pair of high mileage turbocharged volvo's and a 3.7L H3?

Thanks

 

[fantastic]

5w-40 Rotella T6

 

[Bailes1992]

Stick with A3/B4 oils. Look at M1 0w40 and stop diluting your oil with *w20's.

 

[ka9mnx]

I'm using QS Euro 5w-40 for the price. The other 0w-40/5w-40 options are fine (on sale).

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Plenty of A3/B4 Euro oils on the market at places other than WM.

TBN is even less of an issue today due to ULSG.

 

[demarpaint]

Castrol Edge Euro 0W40 A3/B4 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil is a great choice imo. It's easy to find and reasonably priced. I'm running with that in my 88 E-150 next oil change possibly with a quart of HPL30 Engine cleaner.

​

 

[OVERKILL]

Stick with A3/B4 oils. Look at M1 0w40 and stop diluting your oil with *w20's.

This. Just use M1 FS 0W-40 year round and forget about it.

 

[JavierH19]

I wouldn't dilute it with any 20 grade, I guess you could try 0w-30 for the winter. Walmart sells 0w-30 afe but 0w-40 should be fine unless you get another cold snap. But the oil would be the least of your problems then.

 

[OVERKILL]

I wouldn't dilute it with any 20 grade, I guess you could try 0w-30 for the winter. Walmart sells 0w-30 afe but 0w-40 should be fine unless you get another cold snap. But the oil would be the least of your problems then.

0W-40 is good to -40C, why would a cold snap be a problem?

 

[Olinskis]

The Tundra and Odyssey like M1 0w40, so did the avalon and the outback. So does the generator, mower, and snow thrower. We get a lot of single digit morning temps, and hot hot [to us] 90+ degree summer days.

 

[mdocod]

Stick with A3/B4 oils. Look at M1 0w40 and stop diluting your oil with *w20's.

This. Just use M1 FS 0W-40 year round and forget about it.

I wouldn't dilute it with any 20 grade, I guess you could try 0w-30 for the winter. Walmart sells 0w-30 afe but 0w-40 should be fine unless you get another cold snap. But the oil would be the least of your problems then.

I like the M1 0W40 product just fine and do seek out 0W30 for winter when I can find it. Very often there is no 0W30 or 0W40 in stock, and I'm no longer the type to pay double at a parts store or drive around looking for it. When I find a 0W40 or 0W30 A3/B4 in stock I usually buy about 20qts of it all at once.

I only ever dilute in winter if I could only find a 5w40 A3/B4. A 70/30 blend with a well made 0w20 should produce a ~5w30 A5/B5 like product so should be alright.

With that said.. perhaps I should have looked at the product specs more closely... It looks like the castrol 5w40 A3/B4 has very similar cold-temp characteristics as M1 0W40 anyway, and oddly.. the Castrol 5W30 A3/B4 is actually thicker cold than the 5w40. Maybe I'm thinning the wrong stuff! haha...

-----------

Thoughts on A5/B5? Is A3/B4 all these years later still the "preferred" oil among oil enthusiasts here?

 

[OVERKILL]

I like the M1 0W40 product just fine and do seek out 0W30 for winter when I can find it.

That's surprising, Walmart should pretty much always have it in stock.

It looks like the castrol 5w40 A3/B4 has very similar cold-temp characteristics as M1 0W40 anyway, and oddly.. t

Look carefully at the temperatures, a 0W-40 is measured at -40C and -35C (MRV/CCS) while a 5W-40 is measured at -35C and -30C (MRV/CCS). If the 5W-40 was similar to the 0W-40, it would be a 0W-40.

Thoughts on A5/B5? Is A3/B4 all these years later still the "preferred" oil among oil enthusiasts here?

If you are running into a situation where you've run out of M1 0W-40, and you can't find it, it sounds like you should just be hoarding more of it.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I've been running A3/B4 oils in our XC70 and H3 for years at 5K intervals. I took a liking to A3/B4's years ago when frequenting this forum around the time of the green German Castrol 0W30 "craze." I recently added a 2012 S60 T6 to our fleet of oddball cars and fed it the same for its first oil change from me.

I remember going out and searching for and hoarding GC bottles back in the day. These days, I don't discriminate as much on oil selection and just pick up whatever A3/B4 in 0W30, 0W40, 5W30, or 5w40 that I can find at Walmart in 5qt jugs.. I've found A3/B4's from Castrol, Mobile, and Pensoil at WM. Whatever is available and/or best price I use. I usually try to avoid the 5w40 when going into winter or thin it down with some 0W20 (~2:5 ratio of 0w20 to 5w40).

The 05 XC70 and H3 both call for modernish API 5W30 here in the states, but overseas the XC70 with the same engine calls for A5/B5.
The 12 S60 calls for A5/B5.

I've always sort of liked the idea of the "headroom" afforded by A3/B4 in terms of TBN and HTHS, even though I really don't utilize the available TBN at ~5K intervals.

I've begun to notice less A3/B4's and more A5/B5's available at WM. Beginning to wonder if these cars would be better served by A5/B5 oil?

What oil would you run in a pair of high mileage turbocharged volvo's and a 3.7L H3?

Thanks

With low sulfur gasoline, TBN depletion being a condemnation point has pretty much gone the way of the dodo bird unless you’re seriously extending OCIs. There are several oils in the UOA section with starting TBNs in the low 7s that have gone 6-10k miles and are still above the 2.0 condemnation level.

I had PUP 5w20 in my ‘11 Fusion that went 17.1k and still had a 2.0 TBN with zero makeup oil. Chasing TBNs >10 is only needed if you’ve established that your engine can go 20k+ without having some other oil spec go out of tolerance (grade, fuel %, Fe ppm, etc).

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

The other misconception you need to remember is that even if you had 5 quarts of 0w30, then you pour in 1 quart of 5w40, your entire sump now is at best a 5w-whatever. You can thin an oil into a lower viscosity, but winter ratings do not work like that. The only way to maintain a 0w rating is by using all 0w-same grade.

TL;DR: pick an oil that meets the coldest temperature your vehicle will see, and fill the sump to the required level using all the same oil, no mixing. It’s the only way to know the real properties of what’s in your engine.

 

[mdocod]

That's surprising, Walmart should pretty much always have it in stock.

Look carefully at the temperatures, a 0W-40 is measured at -40C and -35C (MRV/CCS) while a 5W-40 is measured at -35C and -30C (MRV/CCS). If the 5W-40 was similar to the 0W-40, it would be a 0W-40.

If you are running into a situation where you've run out of M1 0W-40, and you can't find it, it sounds like you should just be hoarding more of it.

Both have the same -42C poor point while most other 0W40 products seem to poor down closer to -50 and 0w30's often even lower (castrol 0w30 poor point of -60). .... M1 doesn't bother to list publish viscosity in the cold temp test so I can only compare the poor point. I wouldn't go out of my way to hoard an oil whose published specifications PDF is missing the most important measured viscosity specification for the "0W" claim on the bottle. Nothing against the oil itself, I'm sure its a fine product...

With low sulfur gasoline, TBN depletion being a condemnation point has pretty much gone the way of the dodo bird unless you’re seriously extending OCIs. There are several oils in the UOA section with starting TBNs in the low 7s that have gone 6-10k miles and are still above the 2.0 condemnation level.

I had PUP 5w20 in my ‘11 Fusion that went 17.1k and still had a 2.0 TBN with zero makeup oil. Chasing TBNs >10 is only needed if you’ve established that your engine can go 20k+ without having some other oil spec go out of tolerance (grade, fuel %, Fe ppm, etc).

^^^^

Great info here!

I've tried some extended OCI's with some analysis back in the day to get a feel for things, and yea, 8-10K on A3/B4 was doable but I seem to recall other issues cropping up before TBN depletion so decided on 5K intervals to keep it simple. Perhaps that's a reason to consider an A5/B5.

 

[mdocod]

The other misconception you need to remember is that even if you had 5 quarts of 0w30, then you pour in 1 quart of 5w40, your entire sump now is at best a 5w-whatever. You can thin an oil into a lower viscosity, but winter ratings do not work like that. The only way to maintain a 0w rating is by using all 0w-same grade.

TL;DR: pick an oil that meets the coldest temperature your vehicle will see, and fill the sump to the required level using all the same oil, no mixing. It’s the only way to know the real properties of what’s in your engine.

You're offering a reversed example of what I'm doing to make a case against a point that was never claimed.

I'm starting with a bunch of 5w40, adding some 0w20, and expecting a 5w30 like result. Is that not the result you would expect?

 

[OVERKILL]

Both have the same -42C poor point while most other 0W40 products seem to poor down closer to -50 and 0w30's often even lower (castrol 0w30 poor point of -60). .... M1 doesn't bother to list publish viscosity in the cold temp test so I can only compare the poor point. I wouldn't go out of my way to hoard an oil whose published specifications PDF is missing the most important measured viscosity specification for the "0W" claim on the bottle. Nothing against the oil itself, I'm sure its a fine product...

Pour point isn't relevant, that's why we use CCS and MRV. The 0W-40 demonstrated that it passes the MRV (pumping) limits at -40C and the CCS (Cold Cranking Simulator) test at -35C.

Castrol PDS's have been all over the map. It's nice to see the current 0W-30 SDS has a decent amount of data on it, but that has not historically been the case. Mobil used to list everything on their PDS sheets, but have become less forthcoming in recent years.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Both have the same -42C poor point while most other 0W40 products seem to poor down closer to -50 and 0w30's often even lower (castrol 0w30 poor point of -60). .... M1 doesn't bother to list publish viscosity in the cold temp test so I can only compare the poor point. I wouldn't go out of my way to hoard an oil whose published specifications PDF is missing the most important measured viscosity specification for the "0W" claim on the bottle. Nothing against the oil itself, I'm sure its a fine product...


^^^^

Great info here!

I've tried some extended OCI's with some analysis back in the day to get a feel for things, and yea, 8-10K on A3/B4 was doable but I seem to recall other issues cropping up before TBN depletion so decided on 5K intervals to keep it simple. Perhaps that's a reason to consider an A5/B5.

Pour point is a bench test. It has no relevance in a running engine, it simply says the lowest temperature that the oil will flow into the pickup and pump… once it’s in the pump, that’s what the CCS & MRV tests are for (I see Overkill beat me to it!). Funny thing is, “most” batteries will struggle or fail to start an engine that’s cold enough for pour point of a decent oil to be remotely relevant.

IME, people who live in that cold of weather either: garage their vehicle; have block heaters; have oil pan heaters; or some combination of the three. If it’s -45*F and the engine and oil are cold soaked, you ain’t starting it anyways, even if you want to.

 

[OVERKILL]

Pour point is a bench test. It has no relevance in a running engine, it simply says the lowest temperature that the oil will flow into the pickup and pump… once it’s in the pump, that’s what the CCS & MRV tests are for (I see Overkill beat me to it!). Funny thing is, “most” batteries will struggle or fail to start an engine that’s cold enough for pour point of a decent oil to be remotely relevant.

IME, people who live in that cold of weather either: garage their vehicle; have block heaters; have oil pan heaters; or some combination of the three. If it’s -45*F and the engine and oil are cold soaked, you ain’t starting it anyways, even if you want to.

And, Pour Point was dropped as part of the Winter grading system in favour of CCS/MRV because it failed to predict an oil not pumping, despite still pouring.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

And, Pour Point was dropped as part of the Winter grading system in favour of CCS/MRV because it failed to predict an oil not pumping, despite still pouring.

Ding ding ding.

I’m not personally knocking anyone (especially this thread in particular) because I’ve had my misconceptions about oil as well, but you have to wonder where people get their information from that causes them to focus in so intensely on specs that aren’t even relevant in the real world.

Is it consumer interpretation error as to relevance, or is some entity using these useless specs as advertising fodder?