Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Shannow
Sorry, I'm late for this hijacking, and send my sincerest apologies for not being earlier in the fray.

Transformer experience is that humidity in either a forced or natural convection radiator reduces effectiveness
http://www.cired.net/publications/cired2011/part1/papers/CIRED2011_0666_final.pdf

But the differences in an IC engine ???

Peak combustion temperatures are down, as is WOT power output...so I'd call it a wash.


We were focused on the cooling effectiveness of the coolant radiator as a function of air properties. And yes, air humidity does effect combustion too, as it displaces oxygen in the air charge.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by PimTac
I've driven over the Siskyous complex several times. It's a common sight to see many cars and trucks along the way pulled over with hoods up. The Siskyous is not a high pass like in Colorado but it's a series of passes that starts way back around Roseburg Oregon and ends in Redding Ca is headed south.

Any decent pass can be a workout for a engine and vehicle. Altitude is just one factor.

Exactly, it's a workout for most cars. There are many factors, the ambient temperature being a crucial one.

Nevertheless, edyvw drove up the grade (or perhaps down the grade

) at almost twice the speed limit (70 MPH) without a sweat and getting caught. He must have the 300 hp version of the VW CC. To each his own.

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Gokhan
http://wikimapia.org/24673889/Baker-Grade
I have drove that part numerous times. I actually hit 130mph going that grade with VW CC (well, that was limiter). It is absolutely unremarkable difficulty.

Ambient temperature is not crucial one. Elevation is crucial one because as air density drops your cooling capabilities drop too as well as power. Come to the Pikes Peak and climb to 14,112ft, and you will see bunch of cars overheated on a side regardless that they drove 10mph and hour, as 2000ft drop on a side does not look that inviting to speed, at temperatures well below freezing point, even in summer.
And for VW CC hit 130mph in that section is no sweat. For Toyota, yeah, for VW, no. But, you are our internet expert.

 

[Gokhan]

A decision has been made.

It will be thin vs. thin after all.

After flirting with the idea of a 15W-40 CK-4/SN HDEO, I have ordered the Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 SN PLUS ($29.98/5 qt) from Amazon along with the oversized Fram Ultra XG3614 ($8.97, I will fall back to Denso if it doesn't fit).

M1 EP 0W-20 has the highest base-oil-quality index (BOQI) of any oil, surpassing even that of Amsoil Signature Series, meaning very high oxidation resistance. Moreover, it has the Ca/Mg SN PLUS detergent and a higher amount of antioxidant (EP package). This all adds up to good TBN retention, in other words, good reserve alkalinity.

The hypothesis here is that the excess chromium and copper wear and even the excess iron wear is not caused by the lower viscosity but by the degradation (oxidation etc.) of the oil, depleting the alkalinity reserve, leading to corrosion-accelerated wear as a result. I will now test this hypothesis.

The oil change (inauguration of M1 EP 0W-20), one of my favorite pastime activities, should take place by next weekend.

 

[Imp4]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
After flirting with the idea of a 15W-40 CK-4/SN HDEO, I have ordered the Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 SN PLUS ($29.98/5 qt) from Amazon along with the oversized Fram Ultra XG3614 ($8.97, I will fall back to Denso if it doesn't fit).

M1 EP 0W-20 has the highest base-oil-quality index (BOQI) of any oil, surpassing even that of Amsoil Signature Series


1. Who cares?!? BOQI is a contrived joke.

2. Why not go with an XG3600 if you want to go oversize?!?

 

[Bryanccfshr]

There used to be a popular oil additives here that had high ep or antioxidant effectiveness. It's initials were LC.

Been thinking of tryingnthat again, don't remember why it fell out of favor.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Imp4
2. Why not go with an XG3600 if you want to go oversize?!?

It's 1.579 in taller than the XG3614. I doubt I have enough clearance between the A/C fan shroud and oil-filter flange. Sure, if it fits, it's be a better choice, with the rest of the specs being identical.

 

[Imp4]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Imp4
2. Why not go with an XG3600 if you want to go oversize?!?

It might not have enough radial or axial clearance. Toyotas have tight engine spaces.


Wrong!!!!
Yours is an '85 Corolla LE.
xx3600 has identical axial clearance.
Radial clearance is a non-issue as well.

Try again buddy.....

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Imp4
Wrong!!!!
Yours is an '85 Corolla LE.
xx3600 has identical axial clearance.
Radial clearance is a non-issue as well.

Try again buddy.....

See my edited post. I can go and measure the clearance again but I think it's too tall.

 

[Imp4]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Imp4
Wrong!!!!
Yours is an '85 Corolla LE.
xx3600 has identical axial clearance.
Radial clearance is a non-issue as well.

Try again buddy.....

See my edited post. I can go and measure the clearance again but I think it's too tall.

Wrong. It fits.
Let's move on to your contrived BOQI......

Can you just admit it is not defendable or do we need to go round and round??

Remember, what comes around goes around....

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Imp4
Wrong. It fits.
Let's move on to your contrived BOQI......

Can you just admit it is not defendable or do we need to go round and round??

Remember, what comes around goes around....

Perhaps, it barely fits but I would have to use the clamp wrench to remove it, as the cap wrench wouldn't fit. But then I would probably need to use the clamp wrench anyway, as I may not have the right cap wrench.

BOQI is great! It can distinguish between PAO, GTL, Group III, and Group II. Everyone should benefit from this knowledge. What other magical touchstone can tell you what base oil is inside a motor oil? If you don't believe it, that's fine -- I won't hold it against you.

 

[Imp4]

BTW, an '85 Corolla 1.6 calls for a PH2951 per Rock Auto.
The "oversized" PH3614 that you referred to is actually undersized.

But we know how facts don't get in your way.....

PH2951 - 24.07 in3 displacement
PH3614 - 23.29 in3 displacement
PH3600 - 34.31 in3 displacement

Source..... Go look it up and learn a few things...

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Imp4
BTW, an '85 Corolla 1.6 calls for a PH2951 per Rock Auto.
The "oversized" PH3614 that you referred to is actually undersized.

I researched on this a while back. PH2951 and XG3614 are practically the same size, except PH2951 has a smaller-diameter gasket.

Here:

Code
Denso 150-1000/Toyota 90915-YZZF2

Gasket diameter: 5.5 x 6.2 cm (2.17 x 2.44 in, Denso 150-1000)

Gasket diameter: 5.4 x ?.? cm (90915-YZZF2)

W x H 6.8 x 7.2 cm (2.68 x 2.83 in)



Royal Purple 10-2840

Gasket diameter: (2.13 x 2.47 in)

W x H (2.68 x 2.90 in)



Royal Purple 10-2835

Gasket diameter: (2.35 x 2.72 in)

W x H (2.98 x 3.40 in)



Fram PH2951 (recommended by Fram but hard-to-find)

Gasket diameter: 5.4 x 6.2 mm (2.13 x 2.42 in)

W x H 7.6 x 8.4 cm (3.02 x 3.36 in)



Fram PH3614 (easier-to-find replacement for PH2951 with larger gasket)

Gasket diameter: (2.45 x 2.76 in)

W x H (2.98 x 3.43 in)



Fram PH7575

Gasket diameter: (2.45 x 2.76 in)

W x H (2.98 x 3.43 in)



Fram PH4967

Gasket diameter: (2.19 x 2.44 in)

W x H (2.69 x 2.92 in)



Fram PH4386

Gasket diameter: (2.25 x 2.50 in)

W x H (2.69 x 3.47 in)



Fram PH8A (probably too tall to fit)

Gasket diameter: (2.42 x 2.80 in)

W x H (3.80 x 5.14 in)



Fram XG3600 (probably too tall to fit)

Gasket diameter: (2.47 x 2.75 in)

W x H (2.98 x 4.92 in)



Bosch 3330

Gasket diameter: 6.1 x 7.0 mm (2.40 x 2.76 in)

W x H 7.4 x 8.4 cm ( 2.91 x 3.31 in)



Purolator L10241 (recommended by Purolator)

W x H (2.98 x 3.36 in)



Purolator L22821 (discontinued)

W x H (3.15 x 3.94 in)



Purolator L14476

W x H (2.69 x 2.93 in)



Purolator L14477

W x H (2.69 x 3.52 in)



Purolator L30001 (probably too tall to fit)

W x H (3.78 x 5.14 in)

Gasket diameter: (2.50 x 2.89 in)



Purolator L35098 (discontinued)

W x H (3.01 x 4.10 in)



Wix 51394

Gasket diameter: (2.17 x 2.48 in)

W x H (2.69 x 2.98 in)



Wix 51348

Gasket diameter: (2.43 x 2.73 in)

W x H (2.92 x 3.40 in)



Amsoil EA15K09

Gasket diameter: (2.13 x 2.47 in)

W x H (2.68 x 2.90 in)



Amsoil EA15K51

Gasket diameter: (2.39 x 2.76 in)

W x H (2.96 x 3.40 in)



Purolator Corolla oil-filter recommendations (very short list):



L22821: 86 Celica (apparently also for 83 - 87 Corolla before it was discontinued and superseded by L10241)

L10241: 83 - 87 Corolla (apparently superseded the now-discontinued L22821)

L14477: Some Corolla model years and engines after 88

L14476: Most Corolla model years and engines after 88



Inlet-hole-circle outer diameter:



Purolator L22821: 42 mm

Purolator L10241: 42 mm

Fram PH2951: 47 mm

Fram XG3614: 49 mm

Fram PH3614: 50 mm

Toyota 90915-YZZF2: 42 mm

Fram PH8A/XG8A: 52 mm

Purolator L30001: 45 mm



85 Corolla flange ID (estimated): 50 - 52 mm

85 Corolla flange OD (estimated): 73 - 75 mm



Optimal choice for 83 - 87 Corolla: Fram Ultra XG3614 (or other quality oil filters of similar size) -- however, need to measure the flange and actual oil filter

 

[PimTac]

The M1 EP is a very good oil. Can't go wrong with that. As for the index, I'm mathematically challenged due to the schools misadventures back in the sixties.

 

[Imp4]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
BOQI is great!

Even if you were right, which you aren't, your other false, misleading and baseless statements subtract from your ability to stand on factual information that supports your claim.

Not only are you wrong on BOQI, you also came to an internet bulletin board that focuses on motor oil and flubbed your knowledge about oil filter fitment.

It's like tripping over your own dead body...
I didn't think it was possible, then you stepped into the room...

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Imp4
Even if you were right, which you aren't, your other false, misleading and baseless statements subtract from your ability to stand on factual information that supports your claim.

Not only are you wrong on BOQI, you also came to an internet bulletin board that focuses on motor oil and flubbed your knowledge about oil filter fitment.

It's like tripping over your own dead body...
I didn't think it was possible, then you stepped into the room...

What is wrong with you? What in the world are you talking about? Why are you so hostile?

Regarding the oil filter, see the large set of data I just posted in the code -- it's my original research. You then come and say I know nothing about oil filters?

Can you at least stop posting that huge cartoon every time? It's making the thread unreadable.

 

[Imp4]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Regarding the oil filter, see the large set of data I just posted in the code -- it's my original research. You then come and say I know nothing about oil filters?
I say you don't know much about oil filter fitment because you stated that you were running an oversized 3614 in you '85 Corolla 1.6

A 3614 is, in fact, undersized given the standard application.

That is why I said you are uninformed about filter fitment. Because you proved it and I subsequently pointed it out.

Some would say "hey, cut this guy a break", yet you make other unsubstantiated claims and try to work them into overblown rhetoric.

I am here to call you on those claims....

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Imp4
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Regarding the oil filter, see the large set of data I just posted in the code -- it's my original research. You then come and say I know nothing about oil filters?
I say you don't know much about oil filter fitment because you stated that you were running an oversized 3614 in you '85 Corolla 1.6

A 3614 is, in fact, undersized given the standard application.

That is why I said you are uninformed about filter fitment. Because you proved it and I subsequently pointed it out.

Some would say "hey, cut this guy a break", yet you make other unsubstantiated claims and try to work them into overblown rhetoric.

I am here to call you on those claims....

How are you an expert in Toyota oil filters all of a sudden? The Toyota OEM filter is much, much smaller than the XG3614:

Denso 150-1000/Toyota 90915-YZZF2
Gasket diameter: 5.5 x 6.2 cm (2.17 x 2.44 in, Denso 150-1000)
Gasket diameter: 5.4 x ?.? cm (90915-YZZF2)
W x H 6.8 x 7.2 cm (2.68 x 2.83 in)

Same with the M1 EP M1-103(A) oil filter recommended by Mobil 1 and I have currently installed -- it's much, much smaller, about the same size as the Toyota OEM.

Fram is one of few that recommend a larger filter. Fram Ultra XG2951 is hard-to-find -- that's why I opted for Fram Ultra 3614, which is practically the same size except for the gasket. Do you think that I didn't look at the catalog before I chose the filter? You can see how much research I did on this by looking at the info I posted in the code.

It's not nice to turn hostile on people by making assumptions, which could easily be false, as it turned out to be the case this time.

Nevertheless, you owe me an apology. Your needless and unjustified personal attacks crossed the line.

 

[Gokhan]

These are the filters I already own and my personal pictures of them. I already own the Fram OCD PH2951. See how the Denso 150-1000, which is the same as the Toyota OEM 90915-YZZF2, compares to it. 3614, which I own the Bosch version, is practically the same size as 2951 except it has a larger gasket.

So, I know nothing about what oil filter fits my car, ha? Does it tell you something about making assumptions about people?

 

[ZeeOSix]

What's your main goal for running an over sized filter?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
What's your main goal for running an over sized filter?

Because bigger is better.