Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict
- Thread starter Gokhan
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edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Originally Posted by PimTac
Why this has turned into a my hill is bigger than yours thread is just plain dumb. That grade between LA and Vegas is significant. Of course there is always another grade that is steeper or longer. Who cares?
Well, every thread he is part of, ends up with: when I drove on I15 between....
I have a feeling that is only road he ever drove on. He does not understand that mountain passes are difficult not because of grade, but because of elevation, and that part of I15 is not that high in reality.
Why this has turned into a my hill is bigger than yours thread is just plain dumb. That grade between LA and Vegas is significant. Of course there is always another grade that is steeper or longer. Who cares?
Well, every thread he is part of, ends up with: when I drove on I15 between....
I have a feeling that is only road he ever drove on. He does not understand that mountain passes are difficult not because of grade, but because of elevation, and that part of I15 is not that high in reality.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by PimTac
Why this has turned into a my hill is bigger than yours thread is just plain dumb. That grade between LA and Vegas is significant. Of course there is always another grade that is steeper or longer. Who cares?
Well, every thread he is part of, ends up with: when I drove on I15 between....
I have a feeling that is only road he ever drove on. He does not understand that mountain passes are difficult not because of grade, but because of elevation, and that part of I15 is not that high in reality.
I've never been to Colorado so I guess I missed out. I've been on some hairy passes though including that Mojave grade in 115F heat.
Add some twists and bends and the engine gets a workout. Deadman's Pass in eastern Oregon is dangerous as well.
I do agree that at your altitudes your are running into a unique situation.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Why this has turned into a my hill is bigger than yours thread is just plain dumb. That grade between LA and Vegas is significant. Of course there is always another grade that is steeper or longer. Who cares?
Well, every thread he is part of, ends up with: when I drove on I15 between....
I have a feeling that is only road he ever drove on. He does not understand that mountain passes are difficult not because of grade, but because of elevation, and that part of I15 is not that high in reality.
I've never been to Colorado so I guess I missed out. I've been on some hairy passes though including that Mojave grade in 115F heat.
Add some twists and bends and the engine gets a workout. Deadman's Pass in eastern Oregon is dangerous as well.
I do agree that at your altitudes your are running into a unique situation.
Originally Posted by Gokhan
You can't run xW-20 or xW-30 if you have bad valve-stem oil seals. You would have to opt for xW-40 or thicker to control the oil consumption. I replaced them a while back and it stopped the oil consumption.
Interesting. That's probably why I see zero oil consumption on the 0W-20 in the Previa, since I replaced the motor with a low-mileage (~50k mile) JDM engine about 50k miles ago, so at ~100k miles it's still fairly low mileage for a Toyota. The valve stem seals are likely still very good.
Not the case on the 241k original miles of the 4Y in my 88 Van. I suppose I could try the thinner oil and see if consumption goes up, and replace the valve stem seals if necessary. Currently I've been running either 5W-30 or 0W-30 and it doesn't need much topping off between 5k OCIs.
You can't run xW-20 or xW-30 if you have bad valve-stem oil seals. You would have to opt for xW-40 or thicker to control the oil consumption. I replaced them a while back and it stopped the oil consumption.
Interesting. That's probably why I see zero oil consumption on the 0W-20 in the Previa, since I replaced the motor with a low-mileage (~50k mile) JDM engine about 50k miles ago, so at ~100k miles it's still fairly low mileage for a Toyota. The valve stem seals are likely still very good.
Not the case on the 241k original miles of the 4Y in my 88 Van. I suppose I could try the thinner oil and see if consumption goes up, and replace the valve stem seals if necessary. Currently I've been running either 5W-30 or 0W-30 and it doesn't need much topping off between 5k OCIs.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Why this has turned into a my hill is bigger than yours thread is just plain dumb. That grade between LA and Vegas is significant. Of course there is always another grade that is steeper or longer. Who cares?
Exactly. It's always edyvw who starts these things. The only thing I did was to reply to batook's comment below and share my own frequent mountain-pass experiences:
Originally Posted by batook
In fact, the only time I've ever gotten close to trouble was when I was aggressively climbing a mountain pass on I-70 trying to hold 70+ mph in 4th gear with the rpms over 4500. In this case the oil did get too hot, exceeding 230-240F, and the PSI fell to around 38-40, which was too low for comfort, so I backed off and let it cool to normal operating temperatures. My takeaway was that it's totally safe to run the 0W-20 in this motor year-round, even in the manual transmission version, provided you aren't towing a trailer or racing the engine up mountain passes, and if you find yourself in the latter situation, just take it easy and back it off a little.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Well, every thread he is part of, ends up with: when I drove on I15 between....
I have a feeling that is only road he ever drove on. He does not understand that mountain passes are difficult not because of grade, but because of elevation, and that part of I15 is not that high in reality.
You really think that I put about 200,000 miles on I-15 alone?
In fact, I did cross-country twice, about 2500 miles each way, with my Corolla. In the second one, I drove on I-70 through Denver. Yes, on the way, I filled in the low-octane high-altitude gas (I believe 85, 87, and 89 instead of the usual 87, 89, and 91) because that's the only gas they had in these locations. My Corolla engine has federal emissions and as a result it has an HAC (high-altitude compensation) system that puts more air into the carburetor circuits and advances the ignition timing by 8 degrees above 3930 ft.
I didn't find keeping up with the speed limit on I-70 mountain passes challenging. The only difficulty I had there was the constantly changing left and right curves in pitch dark at night, which was unnerving. I think the heat and dryness of the I-15 Baker Grade makes it more challenging in terms of the stress on the engine and cooling system. However, as PimTac said, who cares.
I'm sure we'll now hear from you saying that you did more cross-country trips than I did.
Why this has turned into a my hill is bigger than yours thread is just plain dumb. That grade between LA and Vegas is significant. Of course there is always another grade that is steeper or longer. Who cares?
Exactly. It's always edyvw who starts these things. The only thing I did was to reply to batook's comment below and share my own frequent mountain-pass experiences:
Originally Posted by batook
In fact, the only time I've ever gotten close to trouble was when I was aggressively climbing a mountain pass on I-70 trying to hold 70+ mph in 4th gear with the rpms over 4500. In this case the oil did get too hot, exceeding 230-240F, and the PSI fell to around 38-40, which was too low for comfort, so I backed off and let it cool to normal operating temperatures. My takeaway was that it's totally safe to run the 0W-20 in this motor year-round, even in the manual transmission version, provided you aren't towing a trailer or racing the engine up mountain passes, and if you find yourself in the latter situation, just take it easy and back it off a little.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Well, every thread he is part of, ends up with: when I drove on I15 between....
I have a feeling that is only road he ever drove on. He does not understand that mountain passes are difficult not because of grade, but because of elevation, and that part of I15 is not that high in reality.
You really think that I put about 200,000 miles on I-15 alone?
In fact, I did cross-country twice, about 2500 miles each way, with my Corolla. In the second one, I drove on I-70 through Denver. Yes, on the way, I filled in the low-octane high-altitude gas (I believe 85, 87, and 89 instead of the usual 87, 89, and 91) because that's the only gas they had in these locations. My Corolla engine has federal emissions and as a result it has an HAC (high-altitude compensation) system that puts more air into the carburetor circuits and advances the ignition timing by 8 degrees above 3930 ft.
I didn't find keeping up with the speed limit on I-70 mountain passes challenging. The only difficulty I had there was the constantly changing left and right curves in pitch dark at night, which was unnerving. I think the heat and dryness of the I-15 Baker Grade makes it more challenging in terms of the stress on the engine and cooling system. However, as PimTac said, who cares.
I'm sure we'll now hear from you saying that you did more cross-country trips than I did.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by PimTac
Why this has turned into a my hill is bigger than yours thread is just plain dumb. That grade between LA and Vegas is significant. Of course there is always another grade that is steeper or longer. Who cares?
Exactly. It's always edyvw who starts these things. The only thing I did was to reply to batook's comment below and share my own frequent mountain-pass experiences:
Originally Posted by batook
In fact, the only time I've ever gotten close to trouble was when I was aggressively climbing a mountain pass on I-70 trying to hold 70+ mph in 4th gear with the rpms over 4500. In this case the oil did get too hot, exceeding 230-240F, and the PSI fell to around 38-40, which was too low for comfort, so I backed off and let it cool to normal operating temperatures. My takeaway was that it's totally safe to run the 0W-20 in this motor year-round, even in the manual transmission version, provided you aren't towing a trailer or racing the engine up mountain passes, and if you find yourself in the latter situation, just take it easy and back it off a little.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Well, every thread he is part of, ends up with: when I drove on I15 between....
I have a feeling that is only road he ever drove on. He does not understand that mountain passes are difficult not because of grade, but because of elevation, and that part of I15 is not that high in reality.
You really think that I put about 200,000 miles on I-15 alone?
In fact, I did cross-country twice, about 2500 miles each way, with my Corolla. In the second one, I drove on I-70 through Denver. Yes, on the way, I filled in the low-octane high-altitude gas (I believe 85, 87, and 89 instead of the usual 87, 89, and 91) because that's the only gas they had in these locations. My Corolla engine has federal emissions and as a result it has an HAC (high-altitude compensation) system that puts more air into the carburetor circuits and advances the ignition timing by 8 degrees above 3930 ft.
I didn't find keeping up with the speed limit on I-70 mountain passes challenging. The only difficulty I had there was the constantly changing left and right curves in pitch dark at night, which was unnerving. I think the heat and dryness of the I-15 Baker Grade makes it more challenging in terms of the stress on the engine and cooling system. However, as PimTac said, who cares.
I'm sure we'll now hear from you saying that you did more cross-country trips than I did.
I can actually feel my brain cells dying.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Why this has turned into a my hill is bigger than yours thread is just plain dumb. That grade between LA and Vegas is significant. Of course there is always another grade that is steeper or longer. Who cares?
Exactly. It's always edyvw who starts these things. The only thing I did was to reply to batook's comment below and share my own frequent mountain-pass experiences:
Originally Posted by batook
In fact, the only time I've ever gotten close to trouble was when I was aggressively climbing a mountain pass on I-70 trying to hold 70+ mph in 4th gear with the rpms over 4500. In this case the oil did get too hot, exceeding 230-240F, and the PSI fell to around 38-40, which was too low for comfort, so I backed off and let it cool to normal operating temperatures. My takeaway was that it's totally safe to run the 0W-20 in this motor year-round, even in the manual transmission version, provided you aren't towing a trailer or racing the engine up mountain passes, and if you find yourself in the latter situation, just take it easy and back it off a little.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Well, every thread he is part of, ends up with: when I drove on I15 between....
I have a feeling that is only road he ever drove on. He does not understand that mountain passes are difficult not because of grade, but because of elevation, and that part of I15 is not that high in reality.
You really think that I put about 200,000 miles on I-15 alone?
In fact, I did cross-country twice, about 2500 miles each way, with my Corolla. In the second one, I drove on I-70 through Denver. Yes, on the way, I filled in the low-octane high-altitude gas (I believe 85, 87, and 89 instead of the usual 87, 89, and 91) because that's the only gas they had in these locations. My Corolla engine has federal emissions and as a result it has an HAC (high-altitude compensation) system that puts more air into the carburetor circuits and advances the ignition timing by 8 degrees above 3930 ft.
I didn't find keeping up with the speed limit on I-70 mountain passes challenging. The only difficulty I had there was the constantly changing left and right curves in pitch dark at night, which was unnerving. I think the heat and dryness of the I-15 Baker Grade makes it more challenging in terms of the stress on the engine and cooling system. However, as PimTac said, who cares.
I'm sure we'll now hear from you saying that you did more cross-country trips than I did.
I can actually feel my brain cells dying.
Originally Posted by batook
Originally Posted by Gokhan
You can't run xW-20 or xW-30 if you have bad valve-stem oil seals. You would have to opt for xW-40 or thicker to control the oil consumption. I replaced them a while back and it stopped the oil consumption.
Interesting. That's probably why I see zero oil consumption on the 0W-20 in the Previa, since I replaced the motor with a low-mileage (~50k mile) JDM engine about 50k miles ago, so at ~100k miles it's still fairly low mileage for a Toyota. The valve stem seals are likely still very good.
Not the case on the 241k original miles of the 4Y in my 88 Van. I suppose I could try the thinner oil and see if consumption goes up, and replace the valve stem seals if necessary. Currently I've been running either 5W-30 or 0W-30 and it doesn't need much topping off between 5k OCIs.
In my experience, the oil consumption was 2.5 qt per 1000 miles with 5W-30 and 1.0 qt per 1000 miles with 15W-40 before I replaced the valve-stem oil seals. Currently, the oil consumption is about 0.3 qt per 5000 miles with 0W-20. There are small leaks; so, part of it is due to the leaks. Nevertheless, thicker oil will leak less as well.
Originally Posted by Gokhan
You can't run xW-20 or xW-30 if you have bad valve-stem oil seals. You would have to opt for xW-40 or thicker to control the oil consumption. I replaced them a while back and it stopped the oil consumption.
Interesting. That's probably why I see zero oil consumption on the 0W-20 in the Previa, since I replaced the motor with a low-mileage (~50k mile) JDM engine about 50k miles ago, so at ~100k miles it's still fairly low mileage for a Toyota. The valve stem seals are likely still very good.
Not the case on the 241k original miles of the 4Y in my 88 Van. I suppose I could try the thinner oil and see if consumption goes up, and replace the valve stem seals if necessary. Currently I've been running either 5W-30 or 0W-30 and it doesn't need much topping off between 5k OCIs.
In my experience, the oil consumption was 2.5 qt per 1000 miles with 5W-30 and 1.0 qt per 1000 miles with 15W-40 before I replaced the valve-stem oil seals. Currently, the oil consumption is about 0.3 qt per 5000 miles with 0W-20. There are small leaks; so, part of it is due to the leaks. Nevertheless, thicker oil will leak less as well.
Originally Posted by edyvw
I can actually feel my brain cells dying.
Enough with the trolling, OK?
You mentioned that you used to live in Bosnia. And I thought people there were nice.
I can actually feel my brain cells dying.
Enough with the trolling, OK?
You mentioned that you used to live in Bosnia. And I thought people there were nice.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by edyvw
I can actually feel my brain cells dying.
Enough with the trolling, OK?
You mentioned that you used to live in Bosnia. And I thought people there were nice.
What do you want me to say?
Shannon already explained you that moisture levels does not affect oil temperatures or cooling. It is air density that matters, and with higher elevation air density drops (FYI moisture levels in the Rockies are usually lower than for example Las Vegas or that part of I15, if that interests you. Colorado is officially high desert, do not get confused with snow in winter).
I am not trolling you, you are spewing nonsense. Some people come here to read advice and not this hit or miss opinion thread.
Originally Posted by edyvw
I can actually feel my brain cells dying.
Enough with the trolling, OK?
You mentioned that you used to live in Bosnia. And I thought people there were nice.
What do you want me to say?
Shannon already explained you that moisture levels does not affect oil temperatures or cooling. It is air density that matters, and with higher elevation air density drops (FYI moisture levels in the Rockies are usually lower than for example Las Vegas or that part of I15, if that interests you. Colorado is officially high desert, do not get confused with snow in winter).
I am not trolling you, you are spewing nonsense. Some people come here to read advice and not this hit or miss opinion thread.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by edyvw
What do you want me to say?
Shannon already explained you that moisture levels does not affect oil temperatures or cooling. It is air density that matters, and with higher elevation air density drops (FYI moisture levels in the Rockies are usually lower than for example Las Vegas or that part of I15, if that interests you. Colorado is officially high desert, do not get confused with snow in winter).
I am not trolling you, you are spewing nonsense. Some people come here to read advice and not this hit or miss opinion thread.
OK, so, the claim is that the humidity in the air has no effect on the cooling efficiency of the radiator? Perhaps you're right, not that it matters to most people. You cherry-pick one word from a long post and you troll me about it?
However, this study (on electronics cooling) says otherwise:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...idity_on_effectiveness_of_heat_sink_work
I'm surprised you haven't told us how many times you've done cross-country.
What do you want me to say?
Shannon already explained you that moisture levels does not affect oil temperatures or cooling. It is air density that matters, and with higher elevation air density drops (FYI moisture levels in the Rockies are usually lower than for example Las Vegas or that part of I15, if that interests you. Colorado is officially high desert, do not get confused with snow in winter).
I am not trolling you, you are spewing nonsense. Some people come here to read advice and not this hit or miss opinion thread.
OK, so, the claim is that the humidity in the air has no effect on the cooling efficiency of the radiator? Perhaps you're right, not that it matters to most people. You cherry-pick one word from a long post and you troll me about it?
However, this study (on electronics cooling) says otherwise:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...idity_on_effectiveness_of_heat_sink_work
I'm surprised you haven't told us how many times you've done cross-country.
Gokhan: I vote you run M1 0w30 as its DEXOS 1 GEN2 approved
Originally Posted by 53' Stude
Gokhan: I vote you run M1 0w30 as its DEXOS 1 GEN2 approved
I'm now inclined toward M1 EP 0W-20, which is PAO-based. HTHSV = 2.7 cP is a little higher than the TGMO HTSV = 2.6 cP and it should shear less during the OCI.
Gokhan: I vote you run M1 0w30 as its DEXOS 1 GEN2 approved
I'm now inclined toward M1 EP 0W-20, which is PAO-based. HTHSV = 2.7 cP is a little higher than the TGMO HTSV = 2.6 cP and it should shear less during the OCI.
That's why most automakers consider high altitude driving as severe service. I spent the last 10 years in sw Colorado and travels a lot around the state and tried to traverse every trail I had time for. Comparing a lower altitude grade climb to a high altitude operation is dense.pun intended.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by edyvw
I can actually feel my brain cells dying.
Enough with the trolling, OK?
You mentioned that you used to live in Bosnia. And I thought people there were nice.
What do you want me to say?
Shannon already explained you that moisture levels does not affect oil temperatures or cooling. It is air density that matters, and with higher elevation air density drops (FYI moisture levels in the Rockies are usually lower than for example Las Vegas or that part of I15, if that interests you. Colorado is officially high desert, do not get confused with snow in winter).
I am not trolling you, you are spewing nonsense. Some people come here to read advice and not this hit or miss opinion thread.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by edyvw
I can actually feel my brain cells dying.
Enough with the trolling, OK?
You mentioned that you used to live in Bosnia. And I thought people there were nice.
What do you want me to say?
Shannon already explained you that moisture levels does not affect oil temperatures or cooling. It is air density that matters, and with higher elevation air density drops (FYI moisture levels in the Rockies are usually lower than for example Las Vegas or that part of I15, if that interests you. Colorado is officially high desert, do not get confused with snow in winter).
I am not trolling you, you are spewing nonsense. Some people come here to read advice and not this hit or miss opinion thread.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by edyvw
What do you want me to say?
Shannon already explained you that moisture levels does not affect oil temperatures or cooling. It is air density that matters, and with higher elevation air density drops (FYI moisture levels in the Rockies are usually lower than for example Las Vegas or that part of I15, if that interests you. Colorado is officially high desert, do not get confused with snow in winter).
I am not trolling you, you are spewing nonsense. Some people come here to read advice and not this hit or miss opinion thread.
OK, so, the claim is that the moisture in the air has no effect on the cooling efficiency of the radiator? Perhaps you're right, not that it matters to most people. You cherry-pick one word from a long post and you troll me about it?
I'm surprised you haven't told us how many times you've done cross-country.
I do not need to tell people that. It is irrelevant. You read something on internet and you develop assumption.
Also, heat is not major factor as elevation is. Colorado is tourist destination all year, but winter is peak. Drive between Denver and Vail and you will see at least one car with overheated engine while ambient temperature is 0f.
Originally Posted by edyvw
What do you want me to say?
Shannon already explained you that moisture levels does not affect oil temperatures or cooling. It is air density that matters, and with higher elevation air density drops (FYI moisture levels in the Rockies are usually lower than for example Las Vegas or that part of I15, if that interests you. Colorado is officially high desert, do not get confused with snow in winter).
I am not trolling you, you are spewing nonsense. Some people come here to read advice and not this hit or miss opinion thread.
OK, so, the claim is that the moisture in the air has no effect on the cooling efficiency of the radiator? Perhaps you're right, not that it matters to most people. You cherry-pick one word from a long post and you troll me about it?
I'm surprised you haven't told us how many times you've done cross-country.
I do not need to tell people that. It is irrelevant. You read something on internet and you develop assumption.
Also, heat is not major factor as elevation is. Colorado is tourist destination all year, but winter is peak. Drive between Denver and Vail and you will see at least one car with overheated engine while ambient temperature is 0f.
I vote for Unicorn tears and fairy dust. It's a high mileage Toyota I'm not sure it's fussy.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Gokhan
I'm surprised you haven't told us how many times you've done cross-country.
I do not need to tell people that. It is irrelevant.
OK, so, the answer is none. You have one more thing for your bucket list then.
Originally Posted by Gokhan
I'm surprised you haven't told us how many times you've done cross-country.
I do not need to tell people that. It is irrelevant.
OK, so, the answer is none. You have one more thing for your bucket list then.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Gokhan
I'm surprised you haven't told us how many times you've done cross-country.
I do not need to tell people that. It is irrelevant.
OK, so, the answer is none. You have one more thing for your bucket list then.
Lol, most importantly, I did this famous I15 stretch.
Should I drive there if moisture level is below 15%, or you think Gatorade and Pedialyte mixture added to coolant might save the day?
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Gokhan
I'm surprised you haven't told us how many times you've done cross-country.
I do not need to tell people that. It is irrelevant.
OK, so, the answer is none. You have one more thing for your bucket list then.
Lol, most importantly, I did this famous I15 stretch.
Should I drive there if moisture level is below 15%, or you think Gatorade and Pedialyte mixture added to coolant might save the day?
Originally Posted by edyvw
Lol, most importantly, I did this famous I15 stretch.
Should I drive there if moisture level is below 15%, or you think Gatorade and Pedialyte mixture added to coolant might save the day?
Check your battery electrolyte level and coolant condition. You will probably need Gatorade and Pedialyte yourself if you are in Las Vegas in the summer, where the temperatures are over 110 F (43 C).
Lol, most importantly, I did this famous I15 stretch.
Should I drive there if moisture level is below 15%, or you think Gatorade and Pedialyte mixture added to coolant might save the day?
Check your battery electrolyte level and coolant condition. You will probably need Gatorade and Pedialyte yourself if you are in Las Vegas in the summer, where the temperatures are over 110 F (43 C).
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by edyvw
Lol, most importantly, I did this famous I15 stretch.
Should I drive there if moisture level is below 15%, or you think Gatorade and Pedialyte mixture added to coolant might save the day?
Check your battery electrolyte level and coolant condition. You will probably need Gatorade and Pedialyte yourself if you are in Las Vegas in the summer, where the temperatures are over 110 F (43 C).
I actually live there part time, so I am aware of that. I am now afraid my car might blow up because, you know, I-15.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Lol, most importantly, I did this famous I15 stretch.
Should I drive there if moisture level is below 15%, or you think Gatorade and Pedialyte mixture added to coolant might save the day?
Check your battery electrolyte level and coolant condition. You will probably need Gatorade and Pedialyte yourself if you are in Las Vegas in the summer, where the temperatures are over 110 F (43 C).
I actually live there part time, so I am aware of that. I am now afraid my car might blow up because, you know, I-15.
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