Thin Oils and Lower Operating Temperatures
- Thread starter Shel_B
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If the oil was cooled to raise the operating viscosity in order to give more film thickness, then it would essentially be like running thicker oil at "normal" oil temperature (200 to 220F), and therefore no real gain in fuel mileage would be realized. So I don't see why they would run the thinner oil at lower temperature to protect better when they could simply specify a grade thicker oil. Besides, it's bad for oil to run it too cool all the time.
Engines (if designed well) that use thinner oil should have an effective oil cooling system to ensure the thinner oils don't get too hot and thin to the point where MOFT can essentially go to zero. Especially when used in conditions that can get the oil temperatures above that normal 200 - 220F operating range.
Engines (if designed well) that use thinner oil should have an effective oil cooling system to ensure the thinner oils don't get too hot and thin to the point where MOFT can essentially go to zero. Especially when used in conditions that can get the oil temperatures above that normal 200 - 220F operating range.
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There is a oil/coolant temperature exchange device, but since the coolant increases temperature before the oil the exchange is to warm the oil. It is as simple as to follow that device on the coolant side and see what the coolant thermostat is set for.
The coolant to oil heat exchanges are dual purpose. They help warm the oil up faster, and they also help keep the oil cool when at full operating temperature. The coolant that feeds the oil cooler is coming basically from the cold side of the radiator, which will be cooler than what the coolant temperature is in the engine that's controlled by the thermostat.
Some vehicles only have an air to oil cooler, and no coolant to air cooler.
Another factor in this is that lower viscosity typically means less hydrodynamic friction (everything else equal). Lower viscosity also typically has a lower specific heat capacity, allowing it to get up to temperature faster but also cool down faster.
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More or less it is what it is. I always thought newer engines not necessarily run hotter but produce more heat to scavenge the most from the combustion cycle. At least that's mazdas thoughts and those that use an Atkinson cycle engine
Essentially I believe these 0w20 and 0w16 viscosities work in harmony with the newer engines for maximum efficiency and power
Essentially I believe these 0w20 and 0w16 viscosities work in harmony with the newer engines for maximum efficiency and power
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Hi @Shel_B , in order to facilitate a reasonable discussion, can you please cite your source(s) for the claim above?
His first sentence answers your question ! he doesn't remember ?
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It has been mentioned on here (by me) that along with the implementation of thinner oils, we've seen a very broad adoption of coolant/oil heat exchangers. As @ZeeOSix noted, these are dual purpose:
1. To warm the oil faster. Coolant comes up to the temp MUCH faster than the oil does, so this rapidly reduces viscosity by bringing the oil up to operating temperature alongside the coolant. This reduces frictional losses and improves fuel economy.
2. The prevent the oil from getting too hot. Thinner oil of course means a reduced margin, so, preventing the oil temperature from greatly exceeding the coolant temperature serves as a method of essentially capping oil temperature and thus preventing the oil from getting too thin.
1. To warm the oil faster. Coolant comes up to the temp MUCH faster than the oil does, so this rapidly reduces viscosity by bringing the oil up to operating temperature alongside the coolant. This reduces frictional losses and improves fuel economy.
2. The prevent the oil from getting too hot. Thinner oil of course means a reduced margin, so, preventing the oil temperature from greatly exceeding the coolant temperature serves as a method of essentially capping oil temperature and thus preventing the oil from getting too thin.
Operating at lower temperatures goes against lowering emissions, not very popular these days.
Sometimes poking and prodding can help to jog one's memory.
I often wonder if these "i recall statements " are self induced hypothesis ?
Sorry double post mods please delete post #13
I read a lot of technical papers and articles, but I am bad about not archiving them well. It's common that I'll recall something I read from a white paper, but can't remember which one it was in. It's like "Okay... which of these 30 articles about minimum oil film thickness was that specific result posted in."
I can tell you on my VWs the 1.4 with 0w20 runs no cooler than my 3.6 with 5w40 did. The 0w20 oil is slower to hit full temp though. When I beat on it a bit and push temps up the 0w20 seems to cool back down faster than 5w40.
I have no idea if that's due to the different oils or changes VW made to other engine components. Its well known VW made some modifications to run 0w20.
I have no idea if that's due to the different oils or changes VW made to other engine components. Its well known VW made some modifications to run 0w20.
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0w20 is a very robust oil. stays in viscosity protects and performs very well.
Unless you have DI. I see some newer cars are going to double injection now DI and Port injection combined.
Whether an oil "stays in viscosity" is entirely dependent on engine design and operating conditions, as well as the specific brand formulation. It has nothing to do with being a 20-grade.
And please define "performs".
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