Thicker vs. Thinner for Cold Starts....once again

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The eternal debate,"taste great" or "less filling" I don't see any failures caused by either side of the thin-vs-thick debate. I think that very terminology(thick oil/thin oil) is misleading and causes choices on misconceptions.
 
G,

The question of what's better for cold starts conditions - thick or thin oil?, is a simple one. the answer however depends upon many things within the dynamic nature of the engine, and what one may put in order of concern.

For ease of starting, I would use a light weight oil that allows the engine to crank relatively easily, and flows to vital engine parts quickly. Now with the last part of ensuring quick flow, does that mean that whatever oil that's left from its last period of operation isn't going to protect? Well, the oil becomes fairly thin when it's up to it's normal operating temperature, and I bet it took some time for things to cool down. Having said that, I'm not sure there's much oil in place. One must also consider that now that the oil has thickened due to being of a cooler temperature, it's appearent increase in viscosity will result in a related increase in it's shear strength. Will there be enough to generate a hydrodynamic film/fluid wedge, and to delay shear through until oil pressure builds and oil replenishment ensues???

With an engine having hydralic lifters, I would personally like to ensure that the clearences between lifter tappet and cam lobe remains in check, rather than hearing a sewing maching run under the hood. The shock loads upon the tappet in the bore, the cam profile, and cam bearings leads only to bad senses, though little harm might actually come of it (as an owners manual may read, "this is completely normal"). Harm none the less, yes?

Beyond the cold start situation, engine operation there after may be of limitted demand until the oil itself warms up. I recall when priming an engine's oil system by driving the pump by a drill in 70 degree weather and using 10w-30 oil, the drill was fairly boged down. Just going to prove that until the oil warms-up and resultingly thins, a good amount of energy is going to be consumed in just trying to get the oil flowing. And with such restrictive clearences, oil pressure is likely to build even at idle, past the point where the oil system's pressure relief valve comes into effect. Just how much of the oil that's being pumped is actually going through the oilways rather than out the bypass circuit is beyond me.

Lastly, let it be noted that "heavier weight oil is best suited to low speed, high load operation, where as lighter weight oil is best suited for high speed (low load?) operation." All engine's oilways being designed accordingly to enable quantity distribution accordingly by designed requirements.

Where might that leave one? -
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GrossMotto - Nowadays, you can have the best of both worlds. Like a 0W -30 [or 0-20, 0-40].
Great cold flow and great hot protection.
 
In college, one of my buddies had a corvette which he used straight 30 weight in at all times. It would start at 15 below, but the sound of the rods knocking until the oil pressure built up put all thoughts of using thick oil in the winter out of my mind permanently.
 
I recently removed the connecting rod end caps from a small diesel engine to inspect the bearings. The oil was drained from the oil pan and the engine sat overnight awaiting my disassembly.

When I removed the connecting rod caps the bearing surfaces were completely covered with oil. So while there would be no pressure during a cold start there certainly is fluid film in abundance at the wear surface. I believe that it is these times that the additives in the oil are providing the protection from scuffing and galling that lead to material removal from the soft metal surfaces.

I've read that many oil additives are heat activated and that the oil (or protected surface) needs to exceed approximately 150ºF before some anti-wear additives begin to provide their full benefits.

So while fluid flow is critical at start-up, I believe having a adequate additive base is also critical at reducing initial start wear characteristics.
 
At startup temperatures, the "thin" oil is not really very thin. At normal engine temps, a 5W30 is around 10 cST. At 32 F, the same 5W30 is probably 10 times thicker...if not more. So if the oil is good enough to protect the engine when it is at normal operating temps (thin), then when it is cold (thick), the extra viscosity should provide more cushioning to the engine.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Dr. T:

quote:

Originally posted by Curious Kid:
G,

Lastly, let it be noted that "heavier weight oil is best suited to low speed, high load operation, where as lighter weight oil is best suited for high speed (low load?) operation." All engine's oilways being designed accordingly to enable quantity distribution accordingly by designed requirements.

Where might that leave one? -
gr_stretch.gif


I'm not sure where that last statment came from nor how true it is as we've seen specific owner's manual's here eg. VW state to NOT use a 5-30 during 'high speed operation'. In other words, 'high speed' requires a higher viscosity ie. 5-20 is not a racing viscosity.


I think he is technically correct. The confusion is not hi-speed as in high speed on the Autobahn or high temperatures either.

The difference is in engines that "normally" operate around 2000 rpm as those opposed to 5000 rpm as a norm. Honda vs. old pushrod. e.g.
 
Dr. T,

I believe I came across that statement while on another site. I suppose without supporting data, I shouldn't have mentioning it.

If oil cooling systems were in place to maintain bulk oil temperature control, and unless the engine were specifically designed with heavier weight oils in mind, might it be possible for a less thick oil instead? That's to say there is a good HTHS valuefor the oil, and though it might have low viscosity ratings, it can still have a comparible if not even higher HTHS than some other heavier weight oils (some synths for example).

Might such reasoning too, while the engine is cold, that a thinner weight oil would provide better lubrication to areas like the piston rings, valve guides (unless that's fuel's job), etc., and is why it is recommended that one drive with restraint until the engine/oil is warmed? I've seen some information where the military recommends changing to a 20w oil in arctic conditions (granted most of the members here never see anything of the sort by way of temperatures, etc.).

More food for thought I guess.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Curious Kid:
G,

Lastly, let it be noted that "heavier weight oil is best suited to low speed, high load operation, where as lighter weight oil is best suited for high speed (low load?) operation." All engine's oilways being designed accordingly to enable quantity distribution accordingly by designed requirements.

Where might that leave one? -
gr_stretch.gif


I'm not sure where that last statment came from nor how true it is as we've seen specific owner's manual's here eg. VW state to NOT use a 5-30 during 'high speed operation'. In other words, 'high speed' requires a higher viscosity ie. 5-20 is not a racing viscosity.
 
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