Thicker oil equals more timing chain wear

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27,234
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PNW
I believe the article must be referring to thicker oil increasing timing chain tensioner tension thus increasing wear rates on the nylon timing chain guide wear strips.
No way is oil thickness having any appreciable impact on actual chain stretch.
There may be some truth the wear strip service life though.
OP needs to clarify. Everything he's said makes it sound like chain wear/stretch ... not chain guide wear.
 

Flyingdutchman

Thread starter
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186
Location
The Netherlands
OP needs to clarify. Everything he's said makes it sound like chain wear/stretch ... not chain guide wear.
In the article they mentioned timing chain wear, not the guides. As i said multiple times a lot of the VW 1.2 1.4 1.6 1.8 2.0 2.7 engines in europe (Most of them not deliverd in US) suffer from rapid timing chain wear.

The teflon guides are almost never a problem, most of them look like new even after 500k.

If the tensioner puts more force on the guide, the timing chain is pulled tighter around the crank/camshafts thus putting a slightly higher force on all the chain link pins where the chain links move around. This in combination with the already vulnarble timing chains on these engines might indeed increase the wear a litte. As i said there is no proof for it but i thought i might mention it because i never heard this before.
 
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1,975
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Winnipeg MB CA
I've only worked on one engine with a hydraulic tensioner, a Mazda JE V6. The tensioner was self-contained; it did not bleed down overnight and then pump up like a lifter when the engine was running.

But that was on the outside of the block, and tensioned a timing belt. Perhaps a hydraulic tensioner for a timing chain does operate off the engine's lubrication system.

Someone please jump in and educate me - are there actually hydraulic tensioners that run off the engine's oil pressure? And if so, do they exert pressure on the chain proportional to oil pressure? Thanks.
 
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1,045
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South East Asia
My guess is perhaps engine design issue where the oil path is too small to let the thicker oil loaded with GDI combustion remains that is not cleaned by filter not sending oil to the place supposed to be and aggravate the wear.
 
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9,294
Location
Virginia
I think the biggest issue was if your particular vehicle needed to have the engine pulled to change the belt. I’ve had that experience.

Regarding @bbhero broken chain, too bad a chain autopsy wasn’t done.


interestingly a tear down did happen here...

My friend Danny who owned a auto salvage yard got the car. I had him pick it up. About 4 months later I thought I saw my old car rolling around town. It had a distinctive dent in the right front door from when a deer ran into the door at night when I was on Rte 607 in northern Gloucester county. Sure enough I saw the car again and verfied it was my old car.

Needless to say I was quite surprised. I went by Danny's place and saw him. I asked what he had done to fix the car. He told me that him and his employee Major had pulled the motor out of the car. They pulled the timing cover off the car and found the chain had broken. A couple of the links in the chain finally had broken. He then took a similar motor in another Nissan that had half the miles on it and installed it in my old Nissan Sentra. The car had two new tires on it and still had working ac and the rest of the car was fine. Danny did the pull and swap in my car so that to he could give his daughter the car.

He thought I was annoyed by it... But I wasn't at all. I was glad to see the car on the road given how the rest of the car was working ok. It was interesting to hear about what he and Major had done and seen. It also made sense... Because in the previous couple of weeks I had noticed the car would increase temp if sitting still. If I drove down the road the temp would fall back to where it normally was at the whole time I had owned the car. I figured it was the thermostat was getting lazy. But in fact that was one of the signs the timing chain was going bad. That car was on the road for the next two years at least.
 
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829
Location
United States
I've only worked on one engine with a hydraulic tensioner, a Mazda JE V6. The tensioner was self-contained; it did not bleed down overnight and then pump up like a lifter when the engine was running.

But that was on the outside of the block, and tensioned a timing belt. Perhaps a hydraulic tensioner for a timing chain does operate off the engine's lubrication system.

Someone please jump in and educate me - are there actually hydraulic tensioners that run off the engine's oil pressure? And if so, do they exert pressure on the chain proportional to oil pressure? Thanks.
105D526C-51E0-47DD-94F5-A76125B615B8.jpeg

75F7EF36-1BE3-4D3F-A571-1C7FBE108AA9.jpeg


yes, oil pressure operates a piston which pushes on the guide rail, or sometimes a dedicated pad
 
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15,884
Location
N.H, U.S.A.
I believe the article must be referring to thicker oil increasing timing chain tensioner tension thus increasing wear rates on the nylon timing chain guide wear strips.
No way is oil thickness having any appreciable impact on actual chain stretch.
There may be some truth the wear strip service life though.
Agreed. Any chain "stretch" would be from accel/decel of the cam/valve spring combination.
The tension pressure, N/mm2 on the rubbing block is minimal; just enough to take up slack and prevent whip. Some are ratcheting type where a pawl will actually hold the tensioner in position. The wear will be the to rubbing block proper and not cause any chain wear.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
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45,842
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Ontario, Canada
I believe the article must be referring to thicker oil increasing timing chain tensioner tension thus increasing wear rates on the nylon timing chain guide wear strips.
No way is oil thickness having any appreciable impact on actual chain stretch.
There may be some truth the wear strip service life though.

Welcome back my friend! Haven't seen you on here in ages!
 
Messages
5,379
Location
down in the park
In the article they mentioned timing chain wear, not the guides. As i said multiple times a lot of the VW 1.2 1.4 1.6 1.8 2.0 2.7 engines in europe (Most of them not deliverd in US) suffer from rapid timing chain wear.

The teflon guides are almost never a problem, most of them look like new even after 500k.

If the tensioner puts more force on the guide, the timing chain is pulled tighter around the crank/camshafts thus putting a slightly higher force on all the chain link pins where the chain links move around. This in combination with the already vulnarble timing chains on these engines might indeed increase the wear a litte. As i said there is no proof for it but i thought i might mention it because i never heard this before.

The strain from the tensioner on the links is nothing compared to the strain put on each individual link as it passes. The first link on the crankshaft sprocket pulls the entire chain along, especially as the chain streches a bit. You can lift the chain links off the sprockets except for the first one.

In fact the pressure put on the chain by the tensioner ensures the last link on the crankshaft gets pushed along, lessening the strain on that first link
 
Messages
613
Location
Joplin
... Because in the previous couple of weeks I had noticed the car would increase temp if sitting still. If I drove down the road the temp would fall back to where it normally was at the whole time I had owned the car. I figured it was the thermostat was getting lazy. But in fact that was one of the signs the timing chain was going bad. That car was on the road for the next two years at least.
You lost me on how timing chain wear might be affecting the operating temp.

Can you or someone add some more detail on this theory, or what would cause this change in temp ?
 
Messages
1,678
Location
Ontario, Canada
I wonder what caused that timing chain to break?
My brother had a Nissan Pulsar with a different 1.6L and the chain busted on his too with less than half the mileage of yours. After I disassembled the engine to perform an inspection a friend who was working for Nissan came over to take a look and mentioned the guides were problematic with those engines.
 
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25
Location
Tucson
There was a study posted here a few (?) years ago showing higher zinc was bad (more wear), higher P and moly were good, for timing chain wear.
 
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