The truth about oil change intervals and analysis

[JTK]

$40?

It's about $20.00 through Chevron. I think CAT SOS is about the same too.

I believe Blackstone is $35 for their standard test.

 

[fdcg27]

Yup, an IOLM that takes into account operating conditions is about as "good as it gets" for a predictive system, as hours don't account for operating temperature (or whether it gets up to it at all thanks to short tripping), how much fuel is being consumed, average load...etc. Going by miles is even worse as it doesn't factor in hours along with any of those factors.

Exactly, and this is what I rely upon.
3K seems an absurdly short interval with current factory engine builds, control systems and oils.
I know of only one person who still does 3K intervals, at the dealer, and consider him a bit backward in this regard.

 

[Pablo]

Not the sole trigger, but the enrichment employed here is obviously not static, they are varying the amount of enrichment, as can be seen by the lambda and fuelling data for a fixed amount of load, which means it's a feedback-driven system, and it's doing it while spark stays relatively static. Interestingly, in the middle of the sustained high load area, the ECM pulls a bit of spark, and then ramps it back up, and during this reaction, the fuelling/enrichment becomes static, then as spark flattens again, fuelling is varied again, so it seems to be two strategies used together.

I think people are missing this subtlety

 

[Pablo]

kind of wild that some people think 3,000 mile OCIs are a "takeaway" of this video. Lake Speed, Jr., while being diplomatic, very clearly communicates that he doesn't subscribe to that approach.

That really wasn't my takeaway either.

And I don't call pointing out errors and discussing fine points as "panties in a wad". I certainly wouldn't take his word as any higher gospel than words written on BITOG. The thing is, he is just a voice. You can't back and forth with a video. Sure you can comment on YouTube, but that even more waste of time than BITOG.

Some commenting here act as if we should bow down to the guy, when at best he is a peer, not a superior.

 

[Foxtrot08]

it’s a whole lot easier to make a LOT of money selling $70-100 oil analysis when your overarching recommendation is “change it every 3k, AND MAKE SURE to send in another sample so we can make sure you’re not going to damage your engine!” Just another shock jock.

If you’ve got a vehicle that is regularly used in fleets, and have access to their oil & OCI data, it’s nearly a guarantee that if you use both those data points you’ll be fine… private owner use is almost never as brutal or disregarding of the machinery as fleet use is.

Remember Crown Vic cop cars & taxis? If you had access to PD data and they were using Chevron conventional 10w30 on 10k OCIs regardless of hours and had even just an average failure rate compared to CVs as a whole, I personally would run that oil & OCI for 10k with abandon, because I know I’m not using the throttle as an on/off switch, nor letting the engine idle for hundreds (thousands?) of hours during said OCI.

I just hit 3 years and 4 months of ownership on my F150, and over that whole time in Midwest winters and 58k+ miles of driving, have just now accumulated 100 hours of idle time and turned over 82k total miles. The previous owner, who had the truck from new to 23,800 miles had idled for 192 hours in his time. My use case is easy street compared to most.

A lot of high end oils come with oil analysis for free. In the HDEO world at least.


Also commercial level oil analysis programs are $6-8 a sample via Polaris labs and the like. Especially if you’re signed onto a commercial program like LubeAlert or Klass.


This is funny to me, being equivalently trained to Lake. My entire job is extending drain intervals and telling companies/fleets how we can save them down time / energy / money.

So I don’t really understand the PCEO world of change it more often. Just my pseudo disconnect with this realm of the oil industry to consumers.

 

[JTK]

A lot of high end oils come with oil analysis for free. In the HDEO world at least.


Also commercial level oil analysis programs are $6-8 a sample via Polaris labs and the like. Especially if you’re signed onto a commercial program like LubeAlert or Klass.


This is funny to me, being equivalently trained to Lake. My entire job is extending drain intervals and telling companies/fleets how we can save them down time / energy / money.

So I don’t really understand the PCEO world of change it more often. Just my pseudo disconnect with this realm of the oil industry to consumers.

I'm with you, but in regards to a run of the mill daily driver, with something like a 4-5qt sump is it worth it to do UOA and extend drains in this application? I think it's great if people choose to go that route, especially when they post their results. Part of the oil change process is getting a look underneath the hood and under the vehicle for other potential issues during the oil change process.

I get it for fleet, commercial and industrial applications.

In my line of work we do oil analysis from time to time on our compressors. Some have sumps that are 100's of gallons. Many of them are ~40yrs old and have been rebuilt many times. UOA allowed us to dial in oil change and PM intervals.

 

[cptbarkey]

I enjoyed the shop tour, however it became evident early that it was a cross self promotional sales pitch.

 

[JTK]

I enjoyed the shop tour, however it became evident early that it was a cross self promotional sales pitch.

It is, but that's the basis for youtube channels in general. Getting as many views as possible and making money. In the process viewers get entertainment and might learn something.

 

[TiGeo]

Reported hope somone gets banned.

 

[4WD]

I'm with you, but in regards to a run of the mill daily driver, with something like a 4-5qt sump is it worth it to do UOA and extend drains in this application? I think it's great if people choose to go that route, especially when they post their results. Part of the oil change process is getting a look underneath the hood and under the vehicle for other potential issues during the oil change process.

I get it for fleet, commercial and industrial applications.

In my line of work we do oil analysis from time to time on our compressors. Some have sumps that are 100's of gallons. Many of them are ~40yrs old and have been rebuilt many times. UOA allowed us to dial in oil change and PM intervals.

Lake stressed how the vehicle is USED - talked about UOA …
I only put 10k/year on vehicles - nothing extreme - no UOA …

 

[TiGeo]

Are there any YTers who don’t catch hate around here? Amateurs get trashed. Professionals get trashed. Trash talkers get trashed.

I imagine it is pretty hard to create compelling content on the regular about something as mundane as oil. I’ve seen less shade tossed at the junior high school girls lunch table. Give him a break. Let him eat.

A whole lot of jealous experts here....

 

[JeffKeryk]

The truth and science and whatever is, the Quickie Lubes highly highly highly recommend 3K OCI.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

A lot of high end oils come with oil analysis for free. In the HDEO world at least.


Also commercial level oil analysis programs are $6-8 a sample via Polaris labs and the like. Especially if you’re signed onto a commercial program like LubeAlert or Klass.


This is funny to me, being equivalently trained to Lake. My entire job is extending drain intervals and telling companies/fleets how we can save them down time / energy / money.

So I don’t really understand the PCEO world of change it more often. Just my pseudo disconnect with this realm of the oil industry to consumers.

Right… I certainly don’t know the depth and reach of your analysis, but I’ve heard some from other players in the market. The company I work for doesn’t seem to have a clue even though they’re going thru the motions- our new “expert” has over 25 years “experience”, yet doesn’t have a clue how to interpret OA, or work with some of the giants of the industry to improve our compressors’ uptime, reliability, and overall life.

When presented with a Q&A opportunity a guy who has over 29 domestic patents, numerous international patents, and nearly a dozen books in the lubricant industry, and was offering to hand-pick the base oils and additives to maximize our centrifugals (we have nearly 220k HP of high-pressure and 70k HP of low-pressure compressors), all the “expert” could say was “we only use Techtrol Gold in our IRs because it’s the best,” and “do you have any OEMs as customers?”

I was flabbergasted to hear how close-minded and green our guy is, even when presented with a supplier completely focused on providing a top-tier lubricant, generating and analyzing data for us, and performing side-by-side testing against the VERY expensive OEM ($8k/drum!), he was tunnel-visioned in on things that won’t help prolong lubricant or compressor life. Sad.

 

[The Critic]

The truth and science and whatever is, the Quickie Lubes highly highly highly recommend 3K OCI.

No, even Jiffy Lube puts 5K on the sticker.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

That really wasn't my takeaway either.

And I don't call pointing out errors and discussing fine points as "panties in a wad". I certainly wouldn't take his word as any higher gospel than words written on BITOG. The thing is, he is just a voice. You can't back and forth with a video. Sure you can comment on YouTube, but that even more waste of time than BITOG.

Some commenting here act as if we should bow down to the guy, when at best he is a peer, not a superior.

I like the guy in general and "get" some of what he talks about but i am with you, he is simply a highly trained peer and no superior. Just like all other job positions, business managers or owners, their main goal is making money for themselves and the share holders in any way they can.

 

[Foxtrot08]

I'm with you, but in regards to a run of the mill daily driver, with something like a 4-5qt sump is it worth it to do UOA and extend drains in this application? I think it's great if people choose to go that route, especially when they post their results. Part of the oil change process is getting a look underneath the hood and under the vehicle for other potential issues during the oil change process.

I get it for fleet, commercial and industrial applications.

In my line of work we do oil analysis from time to time on our compressors. Some have sumps that are 100's of gallons. Many of them are ~40yrs old and have been rebuilt many times. UOA allowed us to dial in oil change and PM intervals.

Sure. I’m not saying PCEO applications are great for used oil analysis. If I had to pay for it, the fact would be I’d do it rarely. Assuming say 5000 mile oil change intervals. I would probably do it every 4th or 5th oil change. As, that would give you a fairly good idea of your operation changes.

And I’m saying that as someone, technically formally trained in this field.

I’m more along the lines of being confused that in around 100 year of oil technology, we’ve only been able to get it to 3000 miles? Like… really? That’s what gets me with the whole “change it early and change it often” thing. I have turbine oils, in operation, that they stopped doing the TOST test with them at <25,000 hours. I’ve personally had one of my own semi trucks go <88,000 miles without an oil change. But ****, if you wait longer than 5000 miles in a normal car, darn thing might as well be towed to the scrap yard.


I’m not complaining. Don’t get me wrong. I literally make my living selling people oil. If you want to change oil more often, great. It normally goes to either myself, or keeping one of my friends in this industry employed. Buuuuutttt you know, you don’t reaaalllly need to do that.

Remember manufacturers OCIs are based on the minimums. So if you’re exceeding the minimums, you’re going to be good for, longer. How much longer? That’s where UOAs come in.

 

[Foxtrot08]

Right… I certainly don’t know the depth and reach of your analysis, but I’ve heard some from other players in the market. The company I work for doesn’t seem to have a clue even though they’re going thru the motions- our new “expert” has over 25 years “experience”, yet doesn’t have a clue how to interpret OA, or work with some of the giants of the industry to improve our compressors’ uptime, reliability, and overall life.

When presented with a Q&A opportunity a guy who has over 29 domestic patents, numerous international patents, and nearly a dozen books in the lubricant industry, and was offering to hand-pick the base oils and additives to maximize our centrifugals (we have nearly 220k HP of high-pressure and 70k HP of low-pressure compressors), all the “expert” could say was “we only use Techtrol Gold in our IRs because it’s the best,” and “do you have any OEMs as customers?”

I was flabbergasted to hear how close-minded and green our guy is, even when presented with a supplier completely focused on providing a top-tier lubricant, generating and analyzing data for us, and performing side-by-side testing against the VERY expensive OEM ($8k/drum!), he was tunnel-visioned in on things that won’t help prolong lubricant or compressor life. Sad.

Not gonna lie, your guy sounds like he scammed someone into a job to me. But it’s a divergence in this conversation. My more so the point is, the rest of the world wants to go extended drain intervals. Pushing oil life to the end. Using UoAs to do that. Etc.

In your application, like… if the company wants to do a side by side comparison and is willing to pay for it all… like why not?

But yes. He sounds very green. I’m doing a side by side metal working fluid test currently. And I’m paying for everything. Because I literally bet the engineer from the company that I’ll extend his tooling life by double and it will be worth the product cost differences.

Also younger dude. Cool to work with. I bet a drum of our product vs his current product. Approximately ~$20 a gallon stuff. So I put $1,100 on the table and said if there were any major problems with the tooling, I’d cover it.


Never make a business bet you don’t already know the answer to. (My words of advice.)

 

[Foxtrot08]

A whole lot of jealous experts here....

I’m 0 bit jealous over him. He’s a nice dude. It’s good for him to at least get out there.

To me, I just point out how different people inside of the same small industry, with, extremely similar education levels and backgrounds, have vastly different takes.

I get asked probably, daily on average “what’s the best motor oil?”

My response: The motor oil type of oil. That you change regular.


Generic response. I don’t pick brands in the PCEO world anymore. And I don’t fight with people over their OCI’s. As, branding wise is mostly a marketing fight, and OCI is also, mostly a marketing fight. Not something to stress myself out about. Period. Also, not really where I point myself towards in continued education and effort.

Ask me why you should use… let’s say Powerflow HE 32 over a conventional AW 32 in a plastic injection molding process. And we’ll talk for a long time.

Or why Citgo Pacemaker T32 is a fantastic compressor oil for its price point and life.

Sure.

But why (pulling this out of my butt) you should use Mobil 1 over PUP or Kendall or Amsoil or whatever … like, I literally can’t give you a compelling reason to off the top of my ( semi intoxicated) head.

Needless to say, if you’re going to use HPL, redline, etc. over el cheapo mart 5w30. Yeah, it’s going to perform vastly different. But if you’re dropping the oil every 3000 miles… not gonna matter in a daily driver assuming el cheapo meets minimum spec.

Edit:

I sent him a DM calling him a dork for saying straight 30w’s are non detergent. That’s an R&O. Straight weight detergent oils are still extremely common. Especially in diesel’s. I’m sure he just got tunnel visioned into saying that by mistake.

(Hi P66 T5X 30w. Looking at you. And all the other brands…)

 

[TiGeo]

I look forward to seeing some new YouTube oil personalities coming onto the scene soon with fresh hard-hitting oil content based in the responses in this thread. I'll subscribe and if your lucky the BITOG overlords will allow your videos to be posted here!

 

[4WD]

kind of wild that some people think 3,000 mile OCIs are a "takeaway" of this video. Lake Speed, Jr., while being DIPLOMATIC, very clearly communicates that he doesn't subscribe to that approach.

Using a legacy/sentimental oil + selling lots of ring packs ?