The truth about oil and oil companies

[1roamingnome]

Originally Posted By: 01_celica_gt
Originally Posted By: AHC
Originally Posted By: Rand
wow thats one hard to read post.

also thats not all even close to correct.

do more research.


I didn't get past the 2nd sentence.


Lol I agree but I kept reading, very entertaining.

To original poster, I have a lot of respect for you for doing any research, unlike your average consumer.

As far as money is concerned your obviously not going the cheapest route by boycotting Walmart but, it is your decision

Advance Auto Parts/AutoZone/O'Reilly Auto Parts/Pep Boys all have oil change specials with good deal on a synthetic oil every other month.

If you are going to use Fram Ultra, you could EASILY use it for two oil change intervals (unless you have engine issues) to justify cost. Use Advance Auto Part Online coupon codes to get Fram Ultras for ~6.50 each


Thank you
I usually use auto zone or advanced auto

And now recently rock auto


But I don't use walmart cause I don't agree with there business practices
I guess u can say political choice

 

[1roamingnome]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: 1roamingnome
Well the main point of this was to inform others not to fall for marketing talk
Make decisions based on ur preference and the numbers the numbers are reliable try my best to stick to the facts


Marketing has an effect?

Is this like how low-fat labels induce higher caloric intake by those with unhealthy dietary habits?

I look at the OCI from both factory and blender as a CYA type of deal. Can Mobil 5000 go more than 5000 miles... yes. But 5000 miles and less there is likely a 99%+ chance that even an imperfect batch will not cause issues with that OCI. It could go 6-10K miles depending on the variables... it just is not guaranteed (for the maker minimizing risk). Products are made to different windows of quality. One batch might be "perfect" for 7K while another might be a bit goofy and be good for 5.5K. In addition, vehicles can be different on oil as many turbo folks might know that extended OCI might be a bit more of a risk than a low-powered NA engine. Informed buyers make better consumers...


I completely agree it's just a 4 cylinder Subaru forester no turbo I'm not that worried about it cause it's not a high demand engine

Ur so right companies want to make money and not get sued and the larger the company the harder it is for quality control

I can only make good decisions based on personal experience and compare similar case and scenarios with engineer specs and cold hard numbers

I hope to get out of more people on this site if they have had similar experiences and I want to hear there research stories I want to hear what u guys have had to go through to get info

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: 1roamingnome

I completely agree it's just a 4 cylinder Subaru forester no turbo I'm not that worried about it cause it's not a high demand engine

Ur so right companies want to make money and not get sued and the larger the company the harder it is for quality control

I can only make good decisions based on personal experience and compare similar case and scenarios with engineer specs and cold hard numbers

I hope to get out of more people on this site if they have had similar experiences and I want to hear there research stories I want to hear what u guys have had to go through to get info


You PhaseII EJ25 is fine (mine is the PhaseI). A lot of other things are more likely to kill it that the oil. For example, ignoring the cooling system. I guess you are past that HG issue range. For the Subaru, those 2.5 move a lot of oil so someone should worry more about the filter (one with a higher bypass rating) than anything with the oil.

 

[Coprolite]

Originally Posted By: 1roamingnome

Ur so right companies want to make money and not get sued and the larger the company the harder it is for quality control



I find that the bigger the company, the better the quality control. They have more to lose and have more resources to develop and maintain the needed QC department and standards.

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: quint
what do you mean to say that as far as no punctuation makes it hard to read the entire sentence or you mean the whole paragraph is hard to read the total absence of periods or commas or capital letters is the difficult thing for me is too hard to know when one thought starts and the other stops figuring out how people manage to get jobs and use the internet is puzzling to me they cant even use simple punctuation I stopped reading after about fifty words my eyes hurt reading this kind of stuff wears me out personally I use mobil 1 and pennzoil what was the question again I'm not sure what the question even is

Bravo!!!

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
well frankly i wouldnt do extended OCI's on a Subaru EJ engine, but to each his own. Subaru specified 3k changes, and only recently extended it to 5k on their later models. Do some research on the UOA forum for others who have done similar mileage and look at their results. My conclusions (not quite scientific) are that it is not healthy to a Subaru engine, hence justifying Subaru's recommendations.

You are a bit off on the SoA OCI's.

SoA only required 3,750 mile intervals for 2010 and earlier turbos due to turbo failures from clogged banjo bolt screens (and that came about in 2008, IIRC).

SoA has never had 5k miles (at least in the past 15 years) and n/a models always allowed 7,500 miles in normal driving conditions and ~2011 and later turbo models allow 7,500 mile OCI's. After seeing 8k uoa's here on Mobil conventional and 12k oci's on Wal-Mart SuperTech, there are no problems with extended oci's in n/a Subarus, IMO.

Apologies for using punctuation.

-Dennis

 

[cptbarkey]

yes, but there is so much wrong with OP that i'm not taking the effort to be factually correct either, but thanks for the corrections.

 

[1roamingnome]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
well frankly i wouldnt do extended OCI's on a Subaru EJ engine, but to each his own. Subaru specified 3k changes, and only recently extended it to 5k on their later models. Do some research on the UOA forum for others who have done similar mileage and look at their results. My conclusions (not quite scientific) are that it is not healthy to a Subaru engine, hence justifying Subaru's recommendations.

You are a bit off on the SoA OCI's.

SoA only required 3,750 mile intervals for 2010 and earlier turbos due to turbo failures from clogged banjo bolt screens (and that came about in 2008, IIRC).

SoA has never had 5k miles (at least in the past 15 years) and n/a models always allowed 7,500 miles in normal driving conditions and ~2011 and later turbo models allow 7,500 mile OCI's. After seeing 8k uoa's here on Mobil conventional and 12k oci's on Wal-Mart SuperTech, there are no problems with extended oci's in n/a Subarus, IMO.

Apologies for using punctuation.

-Dennis


Thanks u Dennis for not being stuck up like some other people about punctuation

So I don't use it that doesn't mean the material is any less valuable
Thanks for standing up for me on that

 

[1roamingnome]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
well frankly i wouldnt do extended OCI's on a Subaru EJ engine, but to each his own. Subaru specified 3k changes, and only recently extended it to 5k on their later models. Do some research on the UOA forum for others who have done similar mileage and look at their results. My conclusions (not quite scientific) are that it is not healthy to a Subaru engine, hence justifying Subaru's recommendations.

You are a bit off on the SoA OCI's.

SoA only required 3,750 mile intervals for 2010 and earlier turbos due to turbo failures from clogged banjo bolt screens (and that came about in 2008, IIRC).

SoA has never had 5k miles (at least in the past 15 years) and n/a models always allowed 7,500 miles in normal driving conditions and ~2011 and later turbo models allow 7,500 mile OCI's. After seeing 8k uoa's here on Mobil conventional and 12k oci's on Wal-Mart SuperTech, there are no problems with extended oci's in n/a Subarus, IMO.

Apologies for using punctuation.

-Dennis


What is SoA ?????

 

[1roamingnome]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: 1roamingnome

I completely agree it's just a 4 cylinder Subaru forester no turbo I'm not that worried about it cause it's not a high demand engine

Ur so right companies want to make money and not get sued and the larger the company the harder it is for quality control

I can only make good decisions based on personal experience and compare similar case and scenarios with engineer specs and cold hard numbers

I hope to get out of more people on this site if they have had similar experiences and I want to hear there research stories I want to hear what u guys have had to go through to get info


You PhaseII EJ25 is fine (mine is the PhaseI). A lot of other things are more likely to kill it that the oil. For example, ignoring the cooling system. I guess you are past that HG issue range. For the Subaru, those 2.5 move a lot of oil so someone should worry more about the filter (one with a higher bypass rating) than anything with the oil.


Please explain the phase 1 and 2 and what are Hg issue range I'm scratching my head at a lot of what u said so if u could elaborate so I can better understand ur point

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 1roamingnome

Thanks u Dennis for not being stuck up like some other people about punctuation

So I don't use it that doesn't mean the material is any less valuable
Thanks for standing up for me on that


Not using proper punctuation means that you are what, too lazy to bother with it? Sounds like you've intentionally opted out of using it based on what you say here.

If the material is indeed valuable, then you should take the effort to make it easier for others to read. As you've probably noticed many people struggled to read your original post, or got a few words into it and threw in the towel due to the absence of punctuation.

I also question the value of somebody's input if they are unable to articulate it in a manner that is at least somewhat readable. You've ascribed value to your own post based on the above quote yet by your own admission, you don't use punctuation. Why should we, the readers here, bother to put for the effort in attempting to read these messes that you call valuable when you are unwilling to do the same with respect to punctuation? These transactions are a two way street. If you want us to consider what you post, you must at least make an attempt at presenting it in a manner that doesn't make it an absolute nightmare to read.

This isn't being stuck-up, it is simply common courtesy when communicating via the written word. When both sides are able to understand what the other is saying, fruitful discourse is oft the byproduct.

 

[SatinSilver]

Looks like he does it on the Forester forums as well:

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f66/misfire-cylinder-4-advice-please-278561/

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Not using proper punctuation means that you are what, too lazy to bother with it? Sounds like you've intentionally opted out of using it based on what you say here.


He might be dyslexic.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Not using proper punctuation means that you are what, too lazy to bother with it? Sounds like you've intentionally opted out of using it based on what you say here.


He might be dyslexic.


Perhaps. But other than the lack of punctuation, he seems to express himself well enough that I wouldn't be inclined to think that the case

I could be wrong of course, there's always that

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: 1roamingnome
Please explain the phase 1 and 2 and what are Hg issue range I'm scratching my head at a lot of what u said so if u could elaborate so I can better understand ur point


You have not heard of Subaru Head Gasket (HG) issues?

Not all subaru 2.5 engines are the same... nor are all HG related Subaru 2.5 issues the same. Saying Phase 1 and Phase II is kinda like saying Version 1.0 and Version 2.0. So when talking about Subaru EJ25 (engine model code) it is important to distigush between Phase 1 and Phase 2. Even with EJ25 Plase 1 there can be SOHC and DOHC. Starting in about 2000 for NA market, Subaru modified the design.

Ok,I said Subaru HG are different... basically while seaking solutions to the first batch of HG issues, they kept getting recipe a bit off.

With DOHC Phase 1 engines (which is my '99 OB with 200K+ miles), the issue appears to me manufacturing tolerances, particularly with the engine block and not the actual HG being the problem. Basically the Phase 1 was akin to a bored out 2.2... so to get that extra displacement, things were thinner... and some were too thin. 1 in X (some say 1 in 7... other more, other less) vehicles would have the tolerances too thin in the piston walls and an internal HG issue could ensue. The internal failure would result in coolant bleeding into the oil. This UOA can be useful for this engine looking out for coolant before the coolant completely robs the oil of proper function. While a noted problem for Subaru, it was not all that catastrophic. However, in my readings, those that also had other cooling related issues (using aftermarket t-stats, radiator issues, or the like could also cause HG related issues). Because HG symptoms can mimic other cooling related issues, sometimes finding what triggered what first is a problem. I have no doubt that many minor t-stat failures might have lead to phase 1 HG failure.

Now, your Phase 2 HG issue is completely different (type of failure at least)... and more common across more vehicles. Subaru was trying to correct the Phase 1 In 1999 JD (Japanese Domestic) models, those not made in Indiana (which got them in 2000), the HG issue is an external failure with exhaust gasses pushing out into the coolant and even ends up with the coolant leaking out of the block. Now in this case, the actual HG fails. Although there is a fair amount of debate, for me it appears that the HG supplier was not meeting spec (not all makers make their own parts... from the small makers like Subaru all the way to GM or Toyota. Even Toyota had a recent recall about seat heaters using the wrong materials from a third party). This sort of problem can be found all the way up to supposedly the 2009 models. Subaru claimed a fix in 2005 but reports of similar HG failure do pop up but no where near the volumes that 2000-2004 models had. However, after the fix (if done right) the replacement HG hold up and you easily have a engine that can do 300K+ miles with good maintenance.

I find that in both cases that those who do "cheap" cooling related repairs seem to more susceptible for failure however, even good maintenance folks have had these issues too, especially with the Phase 2.

 

[1roamingnome]

Thank u I'm driving a 2001 forester with 200000 miles plus

So are u saying if I have not had problems by now I'm in the clear

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: 1roamingnome
Thank u I'm driving a 2001 forester with 200000 miles plus

So are u saying if I have not had problems by now I'm in the clear


One is never "clear" but most of the HG issues pop up between 90-140K miles, with 110-120K being the most common window. There are many cases of the "worst" models going 300K+ without issue. I would say you are good or have a good vehicle and hopefully well maintained. As long as I do not have rust issues, I am shooting for 1,000,000 miles on mine. The wife thinks I am nuts.

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: 1roamingnome

Thanks u Dennis for not being stuck up like some other people about punctuation

So I don't use it that doesn't mean the material is any less valuable
Thanks for standing up for me on that


Not using proper punctuation means that you are what, too lazy to bother with it? Sounds like you've intentionally opted out of using it based on what you say here.

If the material is indeed valuable, then you should take the effort to make it easier for others to read. As you've probably noticed many people struggled to read your original post, or got a few words into it and threw in the towel due to the absence of punctuation.

I also question the value of somebody's input if they are unable to articulate it in a manner that is at least somewhat readable. You've ascribed value to your own post based on the above quote yet by your own admission, you don't use punctuation. Why should we, the readers here, bother to put for the effort in attempting to read these messes that you call valuable when you are unwilling to do the same with respect to punctuation? These transactions are a two way street. If you want us to consider what you post, you must at least make an attempt at presenting it in a manner that doesn't make it an absolute nightmare to read.

This isn't being stuck-up, it is simply common courtesy when communicating via the written word. When both sides are able to understand what the other is saying, fruitful discourse is oft the byproduct.


+1

Except my observation is that these kind of posts seem to attract the most replies. This one certainly is receiving a lot of help.

 

[BertieBlue]

That's a fantastic OP

I'm in the "single annual oil & filter Change come [censored] or High-Water " camp personally.

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: 1roamingnome
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
well frankly i wouldnt do extended OCI's on a Subaru EJ engine, but to each his own. Subaru specified 3k changes, and only recently extended it to 5k on their later models. Do some research on the UOA forum for others who have done similar mileage and look at their results. My conclusions (not quite scientific) are that it is not healthy to a Subaru engine, hence justifying Subaru's recommendations.

You are a bit off on the SoA OCI's.

SoA only required 3,750 mile intervals for 2010 and earlier turbos due to turbo failures from clogged banjo bolt screens (and that came about in 2008, IIRC).

SoA has never had 5k miles (at least in the past 15 years) and n/a models always allowed 7,500 miles in normal driving conditions and ~2011 and later turbo models allow 7,500 mile OCI's. After seeing 8k uoa's here on Mobil conventional and 12k oci's on Wal-Mart SuperTech, there are no problems with extended oci's in n/a Subarus, IMO.

Apologies for using punctuation.

-Dennis


What is SoA ?????

Subaru of America. Which has longer OCI's than Subaru Canada, but shorter OCI's than Subaru UK.

What IS it with Upstate NY Subaru owners and their posts this week? Maybe it's the cold and snow.

You don't also own an Impreza, do you?

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2596185

-Dennis