The opioid epidemic - hoppers/thieves

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Look into the Opium Wars in China in the 19th Century. Those are the reason China has strict laws against illicit drugs to this day.

Opium was a common part of patent medicines sold over the counter in the US and elsewhere then too. Lots of people then were addicted, including housewives. The stuff was even added to nostrums to help babies sleep, no kidding. :O During the World War I era the majority of those hard drugs were banned in the US and other countries because of the problems they caused then.
Their bigger problem back then, was the dealer was not local, and the silver and gold were siphoned oversea. East Indian Trading company was making all the money, then later during civil wars warlords were growing them to fund the war. So later on after the wars are over all drugs become banned and dealers / addicts who cannot kick it executed. It became a national security issue.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2019-08...rebels-now-you-re-invited-their-once-secret-0

Golden Triangle was a place where a warlord exile to, and use it to fund the insurgence. It sort of help fund some secret ops during Vietnam war as well. The biggest newspaper publisher in Hong Kong was once smuggling heroine between Golden Triangle / Pattaya / Hong Kong during Vietnam war and use the newspaper business to launder the profit.

Of course once the war is done these guys all got cut off and have to go legit.
 
Bravo. Instead of turning a blind eye to petty crime, I wish judges would start sentencing offending users to mandatory rehab.
I think in this country if someone mandate a rehab they would end up either 1) being the place dealers recruit customers, and 2) being underfund so the patients would be homeless nearby, 3) the rehab becomes the hot spot of dealing, OD, needle dispensary, and eventually people would not vote to keep the rehab around.

Remember, we do not have public healthcare in the US, and we certainly would not fully fund a mandatory rehab.
 
I think in this country if someone mandate a rehab they would end up either 1) being the place dealers recruit customers, and 2) being underfund so the patients would be homeless nearby, 3) the rehab becomes the hot spot of dealing, OD, needle dispensary, and eventually people would not vote to keep the rehab around.

Remember, we do not have public healthcare in the US, and we certainly would not fully fund a mandatory rehab.

We used to fund these sort of treatment facilities up here, and of course healthcare here is public. This was mostly shutdown due to the shift toward "outpatient" treatment, which hasn't worked worth a hill of beans on this particular demographic. Our local hospital had a completely separate building called Nichols that dealt with mental health patients of all stripes, including addicts.
 
There are some requirement in tech boom, you cannot have just a low tax culture alone and to be honest the biggest one is actually diversity. Cities that are not welcoming foreign cultures will not do well as at least 2/3 of tech workers are foreign born non white. This is why it happens in Austin, Dallas' Plano / Allen area, but not super low cost of living area with lots of anti-foreigner culture.

Techbros care about their children's education as well, which is why Boeing's move to Kentucky is a flop. They cut taxes to a point that the public school failed and engineers don't want to move there if they have children.
Of course but that's an error on the part of the officers who approved the relocation.
 
organized militias will take over lol
You mean like Afghanistan where each warlord had their own militia? I think the US had militias during the revolutionary war. They weren't that good, they tended to run during a battle. But that was a long time ago.

You can have a neighbor watch though, well run ones tend to low the crime rate in a particular neighborhood.
 
You’re actually not far off.

When police become non-existent and/or ineffective, and the criminal justice system loses its teeth for whatever reason, you’ll see people start to take matters into their own hands.
My parents have witness it in the past. It is in a place called Kowloon Wall City:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City

Basically, a cyberpunk high rise fortress run by gang, organized crime, adult entertainment, black market, unlicensed dentists, gang doctors (when you need ER in a gang war but you cannot go to a general hospital), gambling, factory with no safety standard, heroine den, undocumented residents, absolutely no building code, etc. You name it they have it.

The gang form its own government to keep things in order. Nobody mess with anyone else or they get their justice served.

It works out pretty well for a slum, and it is mutually beneficial with the more wealthy "above ground" economy nearby.
 
You mean like Afghanistan where each warlord had their own militia? I think the US had militias during the revolutionary war. They weren't that good, they tended to run during a battle. But that was a long time ago.

You can have a neighbor watch though, well run ones tend to low the crime rate in a particular neighborhood.
national guard?
 
I've happened upon recent Youtube videos of Kensington Ave., Philadelphia. They are mind numbing. Zombie apocalypse .

Very serious problem with very complex solutions. Does anyone here have any real solution ideas?

Pretty disgusting. Yet that’s a small area. Notice the same stores over and over. No note of the $800k homes going up three blocks in any direction.

But wow. Just weird. Especially how nobody can stand straight, and then all of a sudden you see a few young girls walking through like it’s nothing. Not sure if they’re new users or just alone and unafraid.

Problem is if a city breaks up a locale like this, and disperse the people, then they all do ruin lots of other neighborhoods. Better to keep them all together and contained, than scattered in everybody else’s neighborhood.
 
Pretty disgusting. Yet that’s a small area. Notice the same stores over and over. No note of the $800k homes going up three blocks in any direction.

But wow. Just weird. Especially how nobody can stand straight, and then all of a sudden you see a few young girls walking through like it’s nothing. Not sure if they’re new users or just alone and unafraid.

Problem is if a city breaks up a locale like this, and disperse the people, then they all do ruin lots of other neighborhoods. Better to keep them all together and contained, than scattered in everybody else’s neighborhood.
That looks like my neighborhood
 
I don't mind the clean needle dispensary philosophy, the issue appears to be the naivety of how the return portion of it was supposed to function. 2/3 of the needles given out didn't make their way back to the return bins, that's not a very good record and it appears that most of them end up in the parks and entranceways around town. In trying to solve one problem, they've created another.
Should they revert and spread disease and shift the problem elsewhere? Personally I think they should have a return price paid to clean them up like a can deposit. Abusers or other elements who make a living of it would clean it up in short order.
 
I've happened upon recent Youtube videos of Kensington Ave., Philadelphia. They are mind numbing. Zombie apocalypse .

Very serious problem with very complex solutions. Does anyone here have any real solution ideas?

That reminds me of some third world country or something. I remember when I was a kid my family driving through a part of Mexico and there were neighborhoods made out of cardboard boxes. I remember how sad it made me feel.
 
Should they revert and spread disease and shift the problem elsewhere? Personally I think they should have a return price paid to clean them up like a can deposit. Abusers or other elements who make a living of it would clean it up in short order.
Something like that might work, or some other incentive like food.

My point was though that in trying to solve one small facet of this problem, we've created another, because we aren't dealing with the underlying issue, which of course is the using itself.

I don't have the answers. I have some theories, like adding/expanding treatment centres, perhaps making them mandatory for people that have been revived or picked-up KO'd multiple times in public places or caught repeatedly for theft? I think providing a way up and out for people who can and will avail themselves of those services is far more likely to reduce the number of users than making sure they don't die via distributed narcan, clean needles and a place to shoot up, which achieves the opposite. That's what I meant in the OP when I said a hand-up rather than a hand-out. No, not everybody is going to succeed in coming and staying clean, but at least provide the opportunity and support necessary.

I also think that sending an addict to jail to hang-out with rapists, murderers, thugs...etc, isn't likely to improve their chances of turning their life around, which I'm sure most will agree. That's why I think some form of dedicated treatment facility that's more like a hospital (like our old Nichols building was) is more appropriate.

It's been noted by a few here that at a certain point, people will start taking matters into their own hands, and we are seeing that locally. There's one guy who is literally beating the crap out of them when he catches them. It's not much of a stretch to go from that to the three S's.

As I said, I don't believe I have the answers, but I'd welcome a trial run of a dedicated treatment facility in one of these places to see how that works compared to what we are doing now.
 
That reminds me of some third world country or something. I remember when I was a kid my family driving through a part of Mexico and there were neighborhoods made out of cardboard boxes. I remember how sad it made me feel.
I grew up blocks from there in Kensington and Juniata Park. Had a funeral to go to several years ago in Port Richmond and drove through the area. Sad to see what once was get taken over by the walking dead.
 
Problem is if a city breaks up a locale like this, and disperse the people, then they all do ruin lots of other neighborhoods. Better to keep them all together and contained, than scattered in everybody else’s neighborhood.

It "depends". Strictly on a real estate valuation side of the business it is better not to concentrate them in one area, and it is also harder for dealers to go all over town and they may give up some "customers" who can't even bring in some small changes.

Regarding to safety, it may also be harder for the addicts to be influenced by each other or the dealers, so they got no money to buy drugs, and eventually just become homeless instead of homeless addicts. If you put each addict one mile apart in the national forest they may end up kicking the habit very fast, mainly because nobody wants to sell them drug and they get no way to collect cash from anywhere.

This is how section 8 is the preferred solution vs public housing project. Unless the addict is in your neighborhood and you go NIMBY on them.
 
As I said, I don't believe I have the answers, but I'd welcome a trial run of a dedicated treatment facility in one of these places to see how that works compared to what we are doing now.
There was a saying that translate to "people will do business that will get them executed, but people will not do business that will lose them money". The only way to make this work is to make drug trade unprofitable rather than risky.
 
There was a saying that translate to "people will do business that will get them executed, but people will not do business that will lose them money". The only way to make this work is to make drug trade unprofitable rather than risky.
Shrinking the customer base would also be effective.
 
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