The only college degree that truly was an education

[GON]

I want to start off this thread by sharing my assessment that a four-year degree is an awesome thing. Not for the education one receives, unless the education is a STEM degree. A four-year degree demonstrates that a person can finish a long-term goal, meet requirements over four years, etc.

Often on BITOG there are discussions about doctrine taught in college level economic course/ majors. Life experience has taught me the professors teaching these courses, and the professors authoring books on economics for college curriculums are often incompetent at best, frauds at worst. I have two master's degrees (one master's from a top ten rated institution), a bachelor's degree, and an associates in science degree. I did my associates in science at age 20, the degree was a STEM, electronics engineering technology. I also taught at the University level, both as an adjunct professor and a tenured professor (top 30 university).

Reflecting back, the only degree where I really learned anything was the associates degree in electronics engineering technology. Being honest with myself, the other three degrees were just fluff, a way to get to a position of higher responsibility. In all my degrees I maintained a near 4.0 GPA, and I can't even write a proper sentence (active/ passive voice, etc). It speaks volumes a dumb dumb like me can have a near 4.0 in four degrees, how truly hard is the instruction, grading, and standards?

Sunday morning here in Asia. Drinking coffee, about to write a report...... what comes to mind is STEM degrees are the real deal, other degrees-- maybe not so much.

 

[jhellwig]

I would have never made it through a 4 year degree. I barley made it through a two year one and that was due to the elective stuff. Still managed to graduate with hornors though.

The biggest disservice the educational system did to my generation was try to tell everyone they had to get a 4 year degree and even then the job market sucked. I am one of the few people that I know that is actually in the field that my degree is in.

 

[Pablo]

I tend to agree.

I will just add degreed or not it pays to know math.

 

[GON]

The biggest disservice the educational system did to my generation was try to tell everyone they had to get a 4 year degree and even then the job market sucked. I am one of the few people that I know that is actually in the field that my degree is in.

Not sure I holistically concur with "educational system did to my generation was try to tell everyone they had to get a 4-year degree".

From my foxhole, I would ponder " four-year degrees need to be STEM, non-STEM learning should not generate a bachelor's degree".

Your post brings to light this question; would the U.S. job market be different if all four-year degrees were STEM degrees?

 

[I<3oil]

Someone had to teach you those classes.

 

[SC Maintenance]

When I took engineering 30+ years ago, all my senior professors were retired engineers. One of the best had only a Bachelors degree. They gave him an "honorary" pHD. He had 40 years of real world design experience. It was great.

My kids just got done STEM. All there professors seemingly did nothing but teach their whole life. Sad.

I think I am agreeing with you? Oh, I also can't write / spell / grammar/ I never had to take a college English class or write anything other than a technical paper. I also work with engineers from around the world who's first language is not English - so no one cares.

 

[wings&wheels]

Accounting, Taxation and Finance now appear to be considered STEM by some, but need to be included if not. Many non-STEM courses also hold value depending on career choices. As someone who started in auditing and accounting but moved to controllership, M&A then operations leading large global organizations, I will say I benefitted greatly from various management coursework as well as other 'soft' subjects including communications.

Economics is such a broad field that you cannot really generalize, but I see your point. I have an Econ undergrad degree but I focused on what I considered useful once I was beyond the basics; Money & Banking, Economies of Developing Nations, etc. I will agree that the overall Econ Department (heck the whole field) outside of my little corner seemed chock full of idealogues that I disagreed with, the smartest people you've ever met (just ask them), and others who thrived only in academia. I did my best to avoid them....and took accounting electives. My do-over would flip my choices; Acctg degree, Econ minor....better yet Embry Riddle.

Our Offspring seems laser focused on Public Health Admin then law school hopefully leading to a job in pharma or healthcare. We're good w/ helping fund that plan.

 

[wings&wheels]

The biggest disservice the educational system industry did to my generation was try to tell everyone they had to get a 4 year degree and even then the job market sucked. I am one of the few people that I know that is actually in the field that my degree is in.

One minor change, but I agree with you.

 

[burbguy82]

I can design, and install a plumbing system for a 100 story building, install it, and inspect it. No degree. Well kind of, in that i could not inspect one I did of course!

I do have issues with using Apple as opposed to Android stuff however......and have issues with keeping my mouth shut.

 

[burbguy82]

Accounting, Taxation and Finance now appear to be considered STEM by some

Well they are stupid.

Those are all forms of language IMO not math. Making your own math is not math. But sometimes.......the fastest way to a destination is not a straight line, and 2-2 sometimes does no equal zero.

Hmm.

 

[TomYoung]

Not sure I holistically concur with "educational system did to my generation was try to tell everyone they had to get a 4-year degree".

From my foxhole, I would ponder " four-year degrees need to be STEM, non-STEM learning should not generate a bachelor's degree".

Your post brings to light this question; would the U.S. job market be different if all four-year degrees were STEM degrees?

Eons before STEM degrees existed, students earned degrees in the humanities. Also, the current system allows people to work within their strengths. Lastly, I want to assure everyone that the idea that everything that is not STEM is a cakewalk. I have degrees in and out of STEM and saw many very good students choke in English and in moral philosophy.

I do think there are some academic fields without rigor, but prefer to live in a world where people can explain history, literature, and the same people, or others can operate particle accelerators.

 

[ripcord]

I like to refer to a lot of what it taught in universities as "Stupid Studies" degrees. You know the ones, such as Anthropology, undergrad level Sociology and Psychology, Communications, Performing Arts, and anything that ends in the word "Studies." None of those degrees should be eligible for the massive student loans that kids are saddling themselves with to get.

 

[Dave Hess]

When I took engineering 30+ years ago, all my senior professors were retired engineers. One of the best had only a Bachelors degree. They gave him an "honorary" pHD. He had 40 years of real world design experience. It was great.

My kids just got done STEM. All there professors seemingly did nothing but teach their whole life. Sad.

I think I am agreeing with you? Oh, I also can't write / spell / grammar/ I never had to take a college English class or write anything other than a technical paper. I also work with engineers from around the world who's first language is not English - so no one cares.

I met a retired IBM and 2 retired Motorola electrical engineers teaching at a community college.
Tons of experience and they enjoyed teaching electronics / breadboard circuits with oscilloscope.
Great education for not a lot of money.

There’s some PhD Economics professors that couldn’t run a lemonade stand on Miami Beach….. but they are teaching economics from a 50 year old book with zero real world experience.

 

[TomYoung]

I like to refer to a lot of what it taught in universities as "Stupid Studies" degrees. You know the ones, such as Anthropology, undergrad level Sociology and Psychology, Communications, Performing Arts, and anything that ends in the word "Studies." None of those degrees should be eligible for the massive student loans that kids are saddling themselves with to get.

Yes,let’s make it so only STEM students can take out massive loans. Then they can pay the entire cost of running the universities and colleges. (Sarcasm).

Seriously, the cost of college and university is too high, but that is a separate question from what is discussed in this thread.

Another concern is that except for the top 500 or thereabouts colleges, the remaining 90 percent have essentially open admissions. You might get a degree, but you’re not exactly part of The Academy.

 

[Boomer]

I took a degree in chemistry in the late sixties at a private liberal arts college. I studies and spent almost all my :"spare" time in the labs. I never had any social life until my senior year . I remember folks in the humanities and social sciences with so much free time, they did not know what to do at times. My work experience continued at grad school in organic chemistry. In the lab seven days a week. I really developed a work effort!

None of my chemistry faculty ever worked in a for profit business. During my career my employer would send me out to colleges to discuss working in industry. I would tell them about being prepared for an annual review and the profs would always shake their heads in disagreement! When I asked what I was supposed to do, I got answers like "study things". No body ever came up with make new products I(very odd), make a profit, etc.

I had worked for four years in my college summers in research labs and production facilities but almost none of my peers ever had. It showed in how they talked to students and what they taught in the class room. They viewed any student who got a job after college as a failure and once they announced that was their goal, many of the faculty quit communicating with them, regarding them as a lost cause.

 

[MasterSolenoid]

Aaah high school, .... the best five years of my life. (just kidding)

 

[ka9mnx]

I graduated from the School of Hard Knocks. I learned a lot but it took to long.

 

[97K15004WD]

Ultimately, you get (from an education) what you put into it. So far in this thread, I see sweeping generalizations and disdain for professors and study in humanities.

I can assure you that a PhD is not an easy thing to get - and to make light of the people who have them is, IMO, biased and generalized across the population.

There is a fear of the "elite" and the need in society to "dumb down" the intellectuals in our society, particularity in certain regions of the country. I don't mean in a political way, but relevant to this conversation (think of all the comments about Einstein and his lack of common sense, etc).

There is no need to fear/loathe experts in their field, regardless of the field of study. Nor is disdain necessary. Without areas of study outside of STEM, we would be a dull society - just "human" machines doing a task. Might as well be ants in a hill, grinding away for the queen ant for no reason but because it's your job.

Everyone is different, and everyone has different skills. Some are better with their hands versus those better with conceptualization. There is a place for everyone in this mix and that's why, IMO, we are like the ants. The ants are born into their position with a set of skills, honed by hormones, and do their job.

We have in our midst some people that are good with their hands but can't do calculus. Some can do calculus, but can't put together an IKEA table. There is a difference for a reason and that's so a society can benefit from various skills.

Factor in IQ and EQ, and that's why all these fields of study are relevant. I worked as an engineer for many years at a large electrical equipment firm. I would say that a lot of my fellow engineers were on the autism spectrum, with very few with decent social skills (EQ). Those with good social skills moved up in the firm, or went into sales. Those without EQ stayed engineers (and loved it), but did resent those that moved on and up.

IMO, for what it's worth and what you paid for it, all people are wary or afraid of things they don't understand. That in turn leads to minimization and the need to say "it's not important" because it's not relevant to the particular individual.

If I want to know how "things" work, I speak to an engineer. For body pains, Doctors. For dental pains, Dentist. Why human grandmothers exist beyond a certain age, Biological Evolutionist (PhD of course), and for studies of past human failures and learning from those failures - all fields of study.

All education is important, otherwise it wouldn't be there. Just because it doesn't appeal to you or your cohorts doesn't make it any less important or necessary. Fields of study that are useless die on the vine (think Alchemy), but may lead to greater fields of study (think Chemistry - all types).

 

[Cujet]

ERAU grad here, Dayton Beach, FL. I'd say the education was right for me.

Embry Riddle Aero Univ.

 

[Learn Ya]

My neighbor is a lineman for our local power company. His son got a job doing the same, straight out of high school. He's doing very well for a 20-something...and no student loans. He will retire on Easy Street if he doesn't get injured or divorced.