The little Ninja seems tired..

[OtisBlkR1]

My 04 250 ninja seems..well, tired.. Ive got atleast 500 miles on her so far this year and a total of 9,xxx miles on the mill. A few weeks ago after work when it was fairly chilly one nite i didnt let it run long before i got on my way, maybee 60 seconds, and of course she protested for the first few miles and especially at stops.. Ive noticed this same stuborn behavior a few times since if i dont let the bike run several minutes before takeoff.. today while rideing to work the throttle seemed less than responsive on the little bike and the entire bike just seemed sluggish.. this seems odd to me as I took off in high 80's temps

bikes a 04 and recieves regular OCI's
Carbs Never been off the bike..
92 or better gas, ALWAYS..
Never replaced plugs (as the bikes never seemed to need them)

every winter the bike gets stabil for storage and carb cleaner run through the gas every spring.

It doesnt feel like a spark issue, it feels like a carb issue, but the bike is starting and running, as mentioned before it just seems a little sluggish..

It could all be in my head..

Thoughts before i break out tools ?

 

[Bluestream]

Why do people feel 92 octane gasoline is better for an engine than 87? I see this listed all the time on power sports vehicles for sale, but I don't get it???

 

[mechanicx]

If it doesn't consume oil it might just need a tune up, air filter cleaned, maybe plugs and a valve adjustment. I don't think they have a fuel filter to speak of. But there is so many adjustments, throttle grip play, choke cable etc. I don't know that any of that sounds like the problem but it does sound like maybe a carb issue.

I hate to state the obvious but is the chain lubed good, and the bike rolls freely with no brake drag?

 

[OtisBlkR1]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Why do people feel 92 octane gasoline is better for an engine than 87? I see this listed all the time on power sports vehicles for sale, but I don't get it???


Im not sure i follow you, are you bashing my thread and choice of fuel or do you have a genuine question ?
ALSO: Many powersports motors state that high octain fuel is required.. Like my Yamaha R1

 

[BobsArmory]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Why do people feel 92 octane gasoline is better for an engine than 87? I see this listed all the time on power sports vehicles for sale, but I don't get it???


Because some engines are designed in such a way to require higher octane fuel. Pour 87 octane in a Pagani Zonda and see what happens. ;-)

 

[OtisBlkR1]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
If it doesn't consume oil it might just need a tune up, air filter cleaned, maybe plugs and a valve adjustment. I don't think they have a fuel filter to speak of. But there is so many adjustments, throttle grip play, choke cable etc. I don't know that any of that sounds like the problem but it does sound like maybe a carb issue.

I hate to state the obvious but is the chain lubed good, and the bike rolls freely with no brake drag?


LMAO, i own stock in Tri-Flo.... yes, this bike gets fresh chain lube at every fill up, or about 200 miles, I just cleaned the air filter.

 

[Jakegday]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Why do people feel 92 octane gasoline is better for an engine than 87? I see this listed all the time on power sports vehicles for sale, but I don't get it???


because it is. pinging results in knock retard. knock retard is the engine reducing its power. pinging can be prevented (or seriously reduced) by running higher octane fuel.

this applies to any car that has knock sensors

 

[ABerns]

Have you ever done the valves? At 9k miles, they are past due. These symptoms could be valves. While you're in there, replace the plugs (obviously).

If you did do valves, how did they turn out? I have a friend with an 07 Ninja (as you know, basically the same bike) which is due for a valve adjustment, so I'm curious how far off people find them!

 

[OtisBlkR1]

Nope, i havent done the Valves.. ive thought about it but with the bike running so perfectly i couldnt bring myself to tear into a machine running so well... but now......

 

[AVB]

I agree with the carbs., plugs and valves suggestions. One thing that has always kind of scared me away from the 250 Ninjas is the reports of cams wearing out around 20,000-30,000 miles.

As far as octane of gas, not everything requires over 87. My 2000 ZRX1100 is one example. Once you go past the optimum level of octane you start losing efficiency and performance due to the fuel being harder to ignite.

 

[Highline9]

Put a new set of spark plugs in it. Worn out, no way my gsxr1000 has 29,000 miles on it. It runs very well. I have found that ngk iridium plugs run well. The standard ngks would run good for 2,000 miles than I would get poor throttle response at low rpm. I have also been running mmo in the fuel for the last 500 miles, seems to run more crisp.

 

[Highline9]

I pulled the valve cover at 14,000 and checked my valve lash, they were spot on spec. How often are you changing oil and what kind of oil?

 

[mechanicx]

I would probably want to run a compression check to just make sure the engine is still in good sound condition and the vale timing isn't late from a worn chain etc, before I went digging too deep into it.

I don't know what the compression spec is but a performance engine should usually have at least 180 psi. As far as the carburetor if it feels like it might be running lean, I think the carbs have a power enrichment piston diphragm even though they are individual runner manifold, and also also air bleeds could be dirty causing it to lean out.

 

[ammolab]

The Ninja 250 gasoline requirement is 87 Octane. There is no need to use, no improvement by using any higher octane fuel. There is of course no "knock sensor" in this 1980s design engine.

500 miles in 6 months? Do you have Stabilizer in the fuel all the time? Ethanol mix fuel may be going bad in your carbs.

Almost all little used Ninja 250s improve after a carb teardown and cleaning.

New plugs should help as 6000 miles is the life of the standard plugs in a little Ninja. I am running iridium plugs now in our bike.

Hit this Ninja 250 form for some great technical help:

http://forums.ninja250.org/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=aee37ea0c293eb025773bfe073d4ea88

 

[yaris0128]

With so few miles on it Im sure a tune up is all that bike needs. I hope you did the scheduled maintenance. Gotta get those valves checked ouy! Cant neglect those things like we can our cars for so many thousands of miles.

 

[the916man]

its 8 years old

10k miles its still a baby

its still cold and things havent expanded in the first few minutes

they are an old school motor so no super tight tolerances

I would suggest firstly a carb sync , makes a massive difference to starting and cold running , as wel as small throttle openings

either way they arent a great bike from cold untill things warm up

from there i would prob look at a carb strip down and clean but would be my last resort as it is a pain in the [censored] to get the carbs out

i would also suggest a valve clearance check , they are screw and locknut but there is a fair bit of work getting to the valves

 

[ABerns]

Yeah, I would just second everyone else's assessment - 9k miles isn't "tired" in the sense that the motor is toast. It may just be tired in that it needs a tune-up.

So don't feel like you're wasting your time tuning it up, you should get many more miles out of it unless its been seriously beaten!

 

[Ausfahrt]

It seems to me that you have received some good advice. I don't have anything to add other than I hope that you get it figured out and get your little bike running like new again.

Good luck.

 

[OtisBlkR1]

Im dropping it off at the dealer for valves and a tune up this week, After talking to the service manager i found out the valves were way overdue.

and yes im aware of what the Manual states about fuel, and im also aware of how the bike runs using everything from 87-to super 94. My bike simply runs smoother with higher oct in the tank.

This bike gets a yearly OCI with 10-40 syn and a fresh filter, so around a 1,000 a year for a OCI.

Yes i spend most of my time and $ on my big bike, frankly the little ninja has always just been a mule in my opinion and lubing the chain and chainging the oil has been the extent of maintence till now, i suppose its time to put a little love back into this bike.. with $3.50 plus a gallon and the MPG this bike returns to me, i guess it deserves some love..

 

[ABerns]

Great. If you don't mind, can you post what the valves were, and if it runs better after the dealer is done with it?