The Idiots Will Not Slow Down!

[555]

When vehicles drive side by side and the left lane is blocked when there is plenty of space ahead, be it 50 yards or a hundred, emergency vehicles take longer to get to an accident scene. So putting aside our emotions, one should move over to the right and not create a blocked lane. We can argue about speed limits etc. but someone's life could be in peril and an ambulance, fire truck, or police vehicle will reach an accident scene sooner if they do not have to wait for cars piled up behind a person who is legally driving in the left lane at the speed limit.
This post is not about admonishment for any side in this discussion but a plea for drivers to realize their role in easing the work of emergency workers who are mentally preparing themselves to assist people who are in a dire situation without having to weave in 55 m.p.h. traffic.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Speeding is from the 1st MPH over the limit. What legal basis do you have to identify it any other way???

The law does recognize that multiple levels of penalty are assigned for various levels of infraction.

Most people do drive over the limit. Ill be the first one to admit it. But to think that there is some entitlement to do so, or that people are well enough skilled or equipped to do so is folly. Its breaking the law, plain and simple. The sooner that people realize that BOTH sides are wrong, the sooner they might start working towards something useful.


You keep regurgitating the same nonsense over and over again. Look, it is not your job to care about what speed others travel. It is not your place to care what speed others travel. The only thing YOU should worry about is being a courteous driver, that follows the rules of the road, that doesn't impede others that travel by parking in the left lane at the speed limit. Your car likely has mirrors which allow you to see behind you. And a windshield that allows you to see the empty road ahead of you. A proper defensive driver is constantly scanning ahead, as well as their mirrors, every few seconds. If you are in the left lane, and someone comes up behind you, how hard is it to move over and be courteous? You don't know, nor should you care, why they are speeding. Perhaps they like to. Perhaps they are late to work. Or perhaps there's an emergency to them. Move over!

As to speed, the proper speed for a road is NOT what the speed limit sign says. The proper speed for a road, is usually the speed travelled by 85% of the roads drivers (85% rule) Which is another way to say, the flow of traffic. If MOST of the other drivers drive 10 mph under the speed limit due to conditions, then if you care about safety, you also will drive 10 mph under the speed limit. If MOST of the other drivers are driving 5 mph over the speed limit, and you care about safety, then you also will drive 5 mph over the limit.

I know it's a hard concept to grasp for rigid left lane speed Nazis but it's true.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Speeding is from the 1st MPH over the limit. What legal basis do you have to identify it any other way???

The law does recognize that multiple levels of penalty are assigned for various levels of infraction.

Most people do drive over the limit. Ill be the first one to admit it. But to think that there is some entitlement to do so, or that people are well enough skilled or equipped to do so is folly. Its breaking the law, plain and simple. The sooner that people realize that BOTH sides are wrong, the sooner they might start working towards something useful.


You keep regurgitating the same nonsense over and over again. Look, it is not your job to care about what speed others travel. It is not your place to care what speed others travel. The only thing YOU should worry about is being a courteous driver, that follows the rules of the road, that doesn't impede others that travel by parking in the left lane at the speed limit. Your car likely has mirrors which allow you to see behind you. And a windshield that allows you to see the empty road ahead of you.A proper defensive driver is constantly scanning ahead, as well as their mirrors, every few seconds. If you are in the left lane, and someone comes up behind you, how hard is it to move over and be courteous? You don't know, or should you care, why they are speeding. Perhaps they like to. Perhaps they are late to work. Or perhaps there's an emergency to them. Move over!

As to speed, the proper speed for a road is NOT what the sign says. The proper speed for a road, is usually the speed travelled by 85% of the roads drivers (85% rule) Which is another way to say, the flow of traffic. If MOST of the other drivers drive 10 mph under the speed limit due to conditions, then if you care about safety, you also will drive 10 mph under the speed limit. If MOST of the other drivers are driving 5 mph over the speed limit, and you care about safety, then you also will drive 5 mph over the limit.

I know it's a hard concept that rigid left lane safety Nazis have a hard time grasping, but it's true.


Apparently your entitlement allows you to also put words in others' mouths and misrepresent the law.

Please do show where the law allows exemptions for privste citizens in non-emergent situations to speed. It doesn't. The limit is the posted limit. Not an 85% interpretation (except perhaps if MT still has a "reasonable and prudent" limit in some places).

Of course you selectively quote my comments to avoid where I said essentially the same about the general population not enforcing the law through their incorrect driving practices elsewhere throughout this thread. Keeping that in wouldn't fit your agenda of trying to justify the entitlement...

So you're making my point. Thanks.

The reality is that most everyone "speeds" (driving over the posted legal limit without legal exemption), myself included. It is not a job for the citizenry to enforce. The person blocking traffic is as at fault as the speeding driver. But they are BOTH wrong and breaking the law at that point. The speeding driver is not above the law.

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I do feel that fair weather, clear condition limits are too slow on some roads. But I'm not going to play know better, entitled, "superior capability" driver with inadequate reading comprehension, and claim that I deserve to go faster. The law gives no such permit or exemption. Do it at your own peril.

That peril should be speed cameras and LEOs though, not some idiot who thinks they're entitled to set the speed. The hypocrisy on both sides is amazing

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: 555
When vehicles drive side by side and the left lane is blocked when there is plenty of space ahead, be it 50 yards or a hundred, emergency vehicles take longer to get to an accident scene. So putting aside our emotions, one should move over to the right and not create a blocked lane. We can argue about speed limits etc. but someone's life could be in peril and an ambulance, fire truck, or police vehicle will reach an accident scene sooner if they do not have to wait for cars piled up behind a person who is legally driving in the left lane at the speed limit.
This post is not about admonishment for any side in this discussion but a plea for drivers to realize their role in easing the work of emergency workers who are mentally preparing themselves to assist people who are in a dire situation without having to weave in 55 m.p.h. traffic.


Emergency workers are but a tiny fraction of the situations. Typically there are no emergency workers going through on a typical road/day.

Emergency workers likely have an actual exemption too, so are not relevant to any legal discussion regarding limits.

Emergency workers are likely covered as a specific basis in the law to demand getting over. The public at large seems to be pretty good at getting far right for emergency workers coming though. If one didn't get over for an emergency vehicle, I'd suspect that would be reason enough to cite that driver.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
What I don't really understand is why the left lane hogs continue to do it. It's their action that leads to dead people on the roads. All they have to is move over to let traffic pass.

It's a mental issue. It gives them a sense of power and especially control. Makes up for control issues in other parts of their life.

So what type of mental issue is it with people who think that speeding and tailgating are acceptable?


The speeding is just that, in a hurry. The tailgating is another control freak trying to force another control freak in the left lane to move over. Now 2 control freaks battling for position.

The best way to get around a left lane control freak is to lay back and not give the impression you are eager to pass, as soon as the car beside you takes an exit , or the left lane control freak leaves enough space, you accelerate hard and hit the right lane.



If you tailgate a left lane control freak, it makes him happy, he now feels in control. If no one tailgates him , he will get little satisfaction. I have seen some actually get mad when passed.

I don't like to pass on the right, but sometimes it gets you out of the control freaks induced traffic jam.


You assume LLCers are control freaks. Most of the time what I see is these people are just oblivious to what's going on around them. They act like they are the only driver on the road. I think most of the time they don't even realize what they're doing....tailgaters on the other hand know exactly what they're doing...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Speeding is from the 1st MPH over the limit. What legal basis do you have to identify it any other way???

The law does recognize that multiple levels of penalty are assigned for various levels of infraction.

Most people do drive over the limit. Ill be the first one to admit it. But to think that there is some entitlement to do so, or that people are well enough skilled or equipped to do so is folly. Its breaking the law, plain and simple. The sooner that people realize that BOTH sides are wrong, the sooner they might start working towards something useful.


You keep regurgitating the same nonsense over and over again. Look, it is not your job to care about what speed others travel. It is not your place to care what speed others travel. The only thing YOU should worry about is being a courteous driver, that follows the rules of the road, that doesn't impede others that travel by parking in the left lane at the speed limit. Your car likely has mirrors which allow you to see behind you. And a windshield that allows you to see the empty road ahead of you. A proper defensive driver is constantly scanning ahead, as well as their mirrors, every few seconds. If you are in the left lane, and someone comes up behind you, how hard is it to move over and be courteous? You don't know, nor should you care, why they are speeding. Perhaps they like to. Perhaps they are late to work. Or perhaps there's an emergency to them. Move over!

As to speed, the proper speed for a road is NOT what the speed limit sign says. The proper speed for a road, is usually the speed travelled by 85% of the roads drivers (85% rule) Which is another way to say, the flow of traffic. If MOST of the other drivers drive 10 mph under the speed limit due to conditions, then if you care about safety, you also will drive 10 mph under the speed limit. If MOST of the other drivers are driving 5 mph over the speed limit, and you care about safety, then you also will drive 5 mph over the limit.

I know it's a hard concept to grasp for rigid left lane speed Nazis but it's true.


There's nothing hypocritical about this statement...

 

[dnewton3]

This entire topic is really a sub-sect of a continuing issue of volumetric flow. Our road systems in North America (particularly the US) have not kept up with traffic volume overall.

Lots of studies are done every year, by State and Fed agencies. They all come to the same general conclusion on this topic; more cars than available space in peak times and areas makes for congestion.

There was a study from CA many years ago (I cannot locate the link right now; I'll keep trying) that conclusively proved that lane-hoppers (people who move from lane-to-lane advancing their position) actually alleviate congestion. The reason this is true is the whole concept to the "weakest link in the chain"; if everyone drove as slowly as the slowest driver, the entire mass would be "slow". Therefore disparity of speed is necessary to allow more cautious drivers their choice, and yet more aggressive drivers their speed as well. The problem comes into play when those groups are forced to interact, based upon one individual usurping the environment of the other. Fast folks cutting people off as they dart off to the right for an exit; slow pokes in the left lane. Etc.

I am separating the emotional topic from the pragmatic, mathematical one. To move volume, it's a combination of area, velocity and density. "Area" is available lanes. "Velocity" is travel speed. "Density" is feet between vehicles. Since the "area" (lanes of traffic) is a fixed value, the most obvious way to increase volume is to speed up. Even if that means lane-hopping around slower folks. Also, shortening distances between vehicles increases volumetric flow as well. It can be safe, or dangerous, depending upon the actions of others. Enter the emotional topic again ... Sure, you can try to create a "safe" distance between you and the person in front of you. And the only thing that will happen is that void will be filled by a lane-hopper. It's the nature of math trying to reconcile the contradiction. Everyone wants to get somewhere, at the rate they want to travel. People who travel "fast" are no more or less culpable than those who go too "slow". But the reality is that faster drivers alleviate congestion by making the "flow" greater.

A sub-sub-topic to the sub-topic is that of merging. Folks from both sides need to work together. Whether it's merging onto a system, or because of lane reduction, it does not matter. As best we can, we need to make space for those who need to merge, but there is also expectation of those merging to match their speed to the flow. I cannot decry loudly enough about people whom lollygag up an onramp, not even meeting the minimum flow speed, all while a pile of folks are stacked up behind them. What happens next is totally predictable; the merging speed falls off, causing the merged lane speed to drop, and then back-up, and then cause lane-darting to avoid the impending rear-ending. Semi-trucks are notorious for this. I realize many of them are loaded heavily and will struggle, but I perceive that many don't even try. I most certainly can recognize a WOT attempt to merge, versus them loafing up the onramp to conserve fuel. Merging is not a time to save fuel; get on the loud pedal and stomp it! Old people are also notorious for this; they merge at near dangerously slow speeds. If the "speed limit" is 55mph and the traffic is going 70mph, then by gosh your posterior better be going 70mph at the top of that ramp to "safely" merge; don't expect others to accommodate your slowness.



It's been my idea for decades that there be varied speed limits on roads, by lane, on limited access area, or high-volume grade-access lanes. Example ...
For a three lane limited access area, the right lane would be 55mph speed controlled. The center lane would be 65mph. The left, 75mph. And the "limit" is not only a max, but also a min as well; if you cannot, or will not, travel at the lane speed, get out of that lane. In urban (high-traffic) areas, it could be posted overhead with LED illuminated signs, and have the posted speed above each lane. The signage would be "live" and adjusted according to congestive norms. But in rural areas on interstates, it would be posted on flat printed signage, with fixed speeds. If you cannot sustain that designated speed, you don't belong on the highway in the first place; hit the surface streets. I have seen old dump trucks and such going 45mph in a 70mph zone! Their dilapidated condition and/or gearing won't let them get up to full speed, but that does not dissuade them from entering traffic and causing a slow-down. That is a major safety issue, and it's not the "fast" people causing the issue.



You can "yabut" this to death if you choose, but the reality is that traffic flow is like a balloon; if you squeeze it in one area, it will bulge out in another. If you cause traffic to accommodate a slower vehicle, it will react with alternate, sometimes dangerous results elsewhere. The "best" methodology is to accommodate the masses at their desired travel speed, and make the exceptions fit into the rule, and not the other way around. This is one example where the needs of the many do outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

 

[NGRhodes]

The German Autobahns are policed/managed on principle of driving appropriately for the conditions.

Safe distances are strictly adhered to by pretty much all drivers I saw.
Highly trafficed areas have speed limits (where lots of merges and entry/exists exist), this is about 50% of all autobahns.
Long hills are common to have minimum speed limits for the lanes to the left.
Sensible management and policing of speed limits (such as near cities, difficult/complex interchanges, bad weather).

Does help Germany also has a good standard for driving tests and vehicle roadworthyness (in their annual vehicle inspection) and the Autobahns surfaces are of a very high standard.

Quote:
The annual fatality rate (2.7 per billion km in 2009) is consistently lower than that of most other superhighway systems, including the US Interstates (4.5 in 2009). Furthermore, a 2005 study by the German government found that Autobahn sections without speed limits had the same accident rate as those with speed limits.
http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question116086.html

 

[funflyer]

I've learned to just accept the fact that there are too many drivers who will NEVER be satisfied no matter how fast others are driving and do the best I can. Even if everyone is going 80 in a 65 there's always a few wanting to go 90. You can't even go the speed limit in a school zone, with kids everywhere, without some Dolt passing you. I guess their time is more valuable than the safety of others.

The OP is correct, THE IDIOTS WILL NOT SLOW DOWN!

 

[opus1]

Originally Posted By: funflyer
...

The OP is correct, THE IDIOTS WILL NOT SLOW DOWN!



Bingo. Sunday being the perfect example for me. Had to run to Walgreen's to get a prescription and it was snowing. Was 5th in line at the light to get on the main road. Light changes, traffic takes off and the #2 person at the light decided that the person in front wasn't going fast enough, pulled into the right lane to pass and began a skid that ended 180 degrees later, across all 4 lanes of the road. Somehow no one was hit, not even me when I noticed the guy in the pickup behind me sliding left and just missing my trunk.

Get to the next light, it changes and guy in pickup decides I didn't take off quickly enough so he passes. Less than maybe 2 blocks from where he almost hit me a minute earlier.

You just can't fix stupid.

 

[irv]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Speeding is from the 1st MPH over the limit. What legal basis do you have to identify it any other way???

The law does recognize that multiple levels of penalty are assigned for various levels of infraction.

Most people do drive over the limit. Ill be the first one to admit it. But to think that there is some entitlement to do so, or that people are well enough skilled or equipped to do so is folly. Its breaking the law, plain and simple. The sooner that people realize that BOTH sides are wrong, the sooner they might start working towards something useful.


You keep regurgitating the same nonsense over and over again. Look, it is not your job to care about what speed others travel. It is not your place to care what speed others travel. The only thing YOU should worry about is being a courteous driver, that follows the rules of the road, that doesn't impede others that travel by parking in the left lane at the speed limit. Your car likely has mirrors which allow you to see behind you. And a windshield that allows you to see the empty road ahead of you. A proper defensive driver is constantly scanning ahead, as well as their mirrors, every few seconds. If you are in the left lane, and someone comes up behind you, how hard is it to move over and be courteous? You don't know, nor should you care, why they are speeding. Perhaps they like to. Perhaps they are late to work. Or perhaps there's an emergency to them. Move over!

As to speed, the proper speed for a road is NOT what the speed limit sign says. The proper speed for a road, is usually the speed travelled by 85% of the roads drivers (85% rule) Which is another way to say, the flow of traffic. If MOST of the other drivers drive 10 mph under the speed limit due to conditions, then if you care about safety, you also will drive 10 mph under the speed limit. If MOST of the other drivers are driving 5 mph over the speed limit, and you care about safety, then you also will drive 5 mph over the limit.

I know it's a hard concept to grasp for rigid left lane speed Nazis but it's true.


Well said! Thank you!

I wasn't going reply in this thread anymore as it is clear to see some on here, no matter how it is spelled out to them, will never get it.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Speeding is from the 1st MPH over the limit. What legal basis do you have to identify it any other way???

The law does recognize that multiple levels of penalty are assigned for various levels of infraction.

Most people do drive over the limit. Ill be the first one to admit it. But to think that there is some entitlement to do so, or that people are well enough skilled or equipped to do so is folly. Its breaking the law, plain and simple. The sooner that people realize that BOTH sides are wrong, the sooner they might start working towards something useful.


You keep regurgitating the same nonsense over and over again. Look, it is not your job to care about what speed others travel. It is not your place to care what speed others travel. The only thing YOU should worry about is being a courteous driver, that follows the rules of the road, that doesn't impede others that travel by parking in the left lane at the speed limit. Your car likely has mirrors which allow you to see behind you. And a windshield that allows you to see the empty road ahead of you. A proper defensive driver is constantly scanning ahead, as well as their mirrors, every few seconds. If you are in the left lane, and someone comes up behind you, how hard is it to move over and be courteous? You don't know, nor should you care, why they are speeding. Perhaps they like to. Perhaps they are late to work. Or perhaps there's an emergency to them. Move over!

As to speed, the proper speed for a road is NOT what the speed limit sign says. The proper speed for a road, is usually the speed travelled by 85% of the roads drivers (85% rule) Which is another way to say, the flow of traffic. If MOST of the other drivers drive 10 mph under the speed limit due to conditions, then if you care about safety, you also will drive 10 mph under the speed limit. If MOST of the other drivers are driving 5 mph over the speed limit, and you care about safety, then you also will drive 5 mph over the limit.

I know it's a hard concept to grasp for rigid left lane speed Nazis but it's true.


Well said! Thank you!

I wasn't going reply in this thread anymore as it is clear to see some on here, no matter how it is spelled out to them, will never get it.

Ditto. The emergency worker is a good one too, it only takes one left lane hogger to create a 20 car backup. I can sometimes see it in the distance when on a hill or a long straightaway. When the emergency worker comes, the cars move aside one at a time and they're all stuck at or below the speed limit so it takes a while for an emergency worker to work through the entire backup. But it's also true that some of the lane hoggers are just clueless or just don't care who's behind them. The state police around here do it all the time, they typically fly through the left lane at high speeds and as they come up on someone, it usually takes a few seconds for the person to move over. Occasionally they're stuck behind a left lane hogger and it takes a minute or so for them to move over. I did see one where he was stuck for 2 whole minutes before the driver realized it was the state police behind him and moved over. Most of the time they don't hit the lights either.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Please do show where the law allows exemptions for privste citizens in non-emergent situations to speed. It doesn't. The limit is the posted limit. Not an 85% interpretation (except perhaps if MT still has a "reasonable and prudent" limit in some places).

Of course you selectively quote my comments to avoid where I said essentially the same about the general population not enforcing the law through their incorrect driving practices elsewhere throughout this thread. Keeping that in wouldn't fit your agenda of trying to justify the entitlement...

So you're making my point. Thanks.


I don't think anyone disagrees with you that the lane hoggers and the speeders are wrong. It's just to what degree. The lane hogger in the OP indirectly caused someone to die. It's sorta a matter of degrees, jaywalking is also as illegal as murder. But people jaywalk all the time. Murderers you'd like to get off the street. It's way worse to be a lane hogger than a speeder. Speeders have their own set of fines depending on how fast you're going and the typical accepted rate is 5-10 over doesn't get a ticket and if you're doing 100 or more then that's reckless endangerment.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Speeding is from the 1st MPH over the limit. What legal basis do you have to identify it any other way???

The law does recognize that multiple levels of penalty are assigned for various levels of infraction.

Most people do drive over the limit. Ill be the first one to admit it. But to think that there is some entitlement to do so, or that people are well enough skilled or equipped to do so is folly. Its breaking the law, plain and simple. The sooner that people realize that BOTH sides are wrong, the sooner they might start working towards something useful.


You keep regurgitating the same nonsense over and over again. Look, it is not your job to care about what speed others travel. It is not your place to care what speed others travel. The only thing YOU should worry about is being a courteous driver, that follows the rules of the road, that doesn't impede others that travel by parking in the left lane at the speed limit. Your car likely has mirrors which allow you to see behind you. And a windshield that allows you to see the empty road ahead of you. A proper defensive driver is constantly scanning ahead, as well as their mirrors, every few seconds. If you are in the left lane, and someone comes up behind you, how hard is it to move over and be courteous? You don't know, nor should you care, why they are speeding. Perhaps they like to. Perhaps they are late to work. Or perhaps there's an emergency to them. Move over!

As to speed, the proper speed for a road is NOT what the speed limit sign says. The proper speed for a road, is usually the speed travelled by 85% of the roads drivers (85% rule) Which is another way to say, the flow of traffic. If MOST of the other drivers drive 10 mph under the speed limit due to conditions, then if you care about safety, you also will drive 10 mph under the speed limit. If MOST of the other drivers are driving 5 mph over the speed limit, and you care about safety, then you also will drive 5 mph over the limit.

I know it's a hard concept to grasp for rigid left lane speed Nazis but it's true.


Well said! Thank you!

I wasn't going reply in this thread anymore as it is clear to see some on here, no matter how it is spelled out to them, will never get it.

And some will never the get the hypocrisy in speaking out against drivers who camp out in the left lane, but then approve of speeding and tailgating...that tells me these people speed and tailgate...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Please do show where the law allows exemptions for privste citizens in non-emergent situations to speed. It doesn't. The limit is the posted limit. Not an 85% interpretation (except perhaps if MT still has a "reasonable and prudent" limit in some places).

Of course you selectively quote my comments to avoid where I said essentially the same about the general population not enforcing the law through their incorrect driving practices elsewhere throughout this thread. Keeping that in wouldn't fit your agen


I don't think anyone disagrees with you that the lane hoggers and the speeders are wrong. It's just to what degree. The lane hogger in the OP indirectly caused someone to die.


But who DIRECTLY caused the death?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Please do show where the law allows exemptions for privste citizens in non-emergent situations to speed. It doesn't. The limit is the posted limit. Not an 85% interpretation (except perhaps if MT still has a "reasonable and prudent" limit in some places).

Of course you selectively quote my comments to avoid where I said essentially the same about the general population not enforcing the law through their incorrect driving practices elsewhere throughout this thread. Keeping that in wouldn't fit your agen


I don't think anyone disagrees with you that the lane hoggers and the speeders are wrong. It's just to what degree. The lane hogger in the OP indirectly caused someone to die.


But who DIRECTLY caused the death?


The lane hogger who performed the brake-check caused the chain reaction/multi-car collision, but following too closely was a key component of that. But as discussed in this thread, driving on the 400-series highways, keeping a safe distance is an exercise in futility, because some idiot is going to dart in there.

 

[PeterPolyol]

Originally Posted By: NGRhodes
The German Autobahns are policed/managed on principle of driving appropriately for the conditions.

Safe distances are strictly adhered to by pretty much all drivers I saw.
Highly trafficed areas have speed limits (where lots of merges and entry/exists exist), this is about 50% of all autobahns.
Long hills are common to have minimum speed limits for the lanes to the left.
Sensible management and policing of speed limits (such as near cities, difficult/complex interchanges, bad weather).

Does help Germany also has a good standard for driving tests and vehicle roadworthyness (in their annual vehicle inspection) and the Autobahns surfaces are of a very high standard.

Quote:
The annual fatality rate (2.7 per billion km in 2009) is consistently lower than that of most other superhighway systems, including the US Interstates (4.5 in 2009). Furthermore, a 2005 study by the German government found that Autobahn sections without speed limits had the same accident rate as those with speed limits.
http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question116086.html



They don't mess around in Europe wrt to driver training, and it shows. You're right, it's all about STANDARDS. North American standards for driver qualification are a joke- sadly representative of other facets of our lives here. Speed enforcement seems to be more about revenues and legislation more than safety while in Europe it appears to be primarily about efficient, safe operation of a motor vehicle and then legislation and revenues. The driver training protocols and minimum qualification standards say it all.

Enforcement-wise, it's almost too difficult for officer Quota to determine who's actually being a road hazard and then tailor a set of citations for unsafe operation, than it is for him to mindlessly cite a numerical value on a radar gun- it's hard to argue that one 'number is higher than the other' and they know where their bread and butter is. To make a distinction of who is driving dangerously without defaulting to speed, would also require the officer be a good driver himself- and that's not a guarantee (at all).
This is why North Americans are so convinced that speed kills and that's patently false. Compare the average speed vs safety record of Japan Railways bullet trains vs AMTRAK for reference- and then tell us which railway operates under stricter standards? Lazy, careless, belligerent, selfish, mindless, hypnagogic, detached, distracted driving KILLS, not speed.

 

[SeaJay]

I think tomorrow we should all give this topic a break, and start debating what to do with the poor weather we've been having lately!

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: SeaJay
I think tomorrow we should all give this topic a break, and start debating what to do with the poor weather we've been having lately!

Fly south to un-froze and teach the slowpokes how to drive?

I think the highest insult is when RVs and semis in right lane are passing the left 2 lanes?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Lazy, careless, belligerent, selfish, mindless, hypnagogic, detached, distracted driving KILLS, not speed.


Combine all of this with someone who also speeds and tailgates and it becomes an even deadlier combination...