The Hemi in the new Chrysler 300C gets 5w20!

[tenderloin]

Here, no one believes anything...no one is happy with anything.....unless they own it. Then it is the greatest. Taking shots at everyone elses pride and joy.

Happy Easter to all of you........

 

[simpleguy_68]

My take on the Hemi is that it is a useless engine. If you're driving a half-ton, you're better off getting the 4.7L V8 as it gets much better mileage and will pull anything the half-ton chassis is capable of towing.

If your buying anything 3/4-ton or above, you're better off going with the Cummins. The CTD will outpull the Hemi AND get better mileage.

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AV8R:
Right on, JTHorner. I posted a reply a while back trying to debunk the ad hype about the 'new hemi' and was met with much uninformed scepticism.

As I recall, Zora Arkus-Duntov built the first hemi head to get some hp from flathead Fords, which basically had the combustion chambers in the blocks. I think he was able to get something like 300 hp from those early engines.

---

Duntov didn't get 300 hp, but some of the hot ridders that worked around the problems with the heads did. They were still quite an accomplishemnt for the time. But way expensice...they still are.

If you want you can buy new Ardun heads for $12,000 a set. The line forms at:
http://www.ardun.com/

Hemi combustion chambers go back a lot further than Ardyn or Chrysler. BMW 328s in the 1930s had hemi heads. More recently, the XS120 Jag went into production in 1948 with hemi heads.

Mercedes, Peugeout and couple of other GP cars all had cross flow heads with angled valves by 1914, but they also had 4 valves and DOHC so their combustion chambers weren't pure hemis. But then neither is the new Dodge. But then the dodge doesn't have 4 valves or DOHC like the 1914 cars

 

[BlackF250]

The only good thing that I can say about the Hemi is that it is a nice sounding engine. A lot of guys around here are putting cat-back exhausts on them and they sound GREAT! Thats it though, hook a trailer up to one or try to do some snow plowing and you will quickly find out that it is a rat at low RPM'S. My little 5.4 v-8 in my super Duty will out pull a Hemi at low RPM'S any day of the week. And that is on the cheapest gas I can find.

All the Dodges around here are sold to urban cowboys, Trucks that are used for any kind of serious work are all Ford and GM's.

 

[BlackF250]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, I am also trying to kill my truck by running 0w20 death juice in it also!

 

[MikeW]

I bet we'll hear alot about the longevity of this engine. The 300 with the hemi give Chrysler a good entry back into the fleet car market, if it want to go there. It would make an interesting cop car, and I bet I'll be approved as an NYC taxi pretty soon.

Those applications will be the acid test.

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
With the results we are seeing with the 20wts, why not. There is a strong arguement that a well made thin oils are better for protection. Better additives, flow and heat transfer are some of the things they seem to offer. Again, if the engine is designed for it, I have no problem with using 20wts. Thick oils are a thing of the past for most daily driver cars today. The only people that still think you need a thick 50wt oil are those that are THICK headed.

---

The 20W zealots are thin skinned

The normal comparisons of oils I have been seeing are xW-20 and xW-30, not xW-50. Why toss that 50 weight into the mix? Because the arguments for 20 over 30 are weak?

And why do the thin skinned 20 zealots always want to compare their 20 with a lower quality 30?

What if there were no rhetorical questions.

 

[jsharp]

Hemispherical combustion chambers have been around since at least the 20's if not earlier. The Meyer-Drake-Offenhauser engines had them although the cylinder head was part of the cylinder block casting on those engines...

 

[Bror Jace]

I was a 5W20 doubter years ago but I don't think they have anything left to prove anymore ... in a 130hp four cylinder or a big V8.

And I agree with the folks about the Hemi. It's 98% hype. Sure the 426 Hemi was quite a runner in its day but that was long ago and in daily drivers, even modern hot rods, they really aren't all they hype makes them out to be.

Question: I thought that every engine with the spark plug in the middle of the valve cover was a hemi? Don't all 4 valve heads use hemispherical combustion chambers. Isn't it hard to make a combustion chamber anything other than hemispherical with that type of arrangement?

--- Bror Jace

 

[mettech]

I own a 03 Dodge 2500 4X4 5.7 "Hemi". Here is what I can tell you about it:
16K miles, no problems at all. Best new vehicle I ever had (I also have a 03 Merc Sable. I use Mobile 1 5W-20 in the winter and just changed it to Mobile 1 5W-30 last week. Engine runs fine with the thin oil. I change it every 5K miles.

P.S. I don't have a gun rack in the window, and I don't wear a cowboy hat. I do however have a BS degree in Management. 22 yrs in the U.S. Air Force and I'm working on my Masters degree.

I pull a 8.5K 5th Wheel with the truck and it runs fine. However, I do wish I got the 4.10 rear end.

I drove both the Ford and Chevy 3/4 ton trucks before I purchased the Ram. It rides better, and with the 5.7 standard engine, it runs better. BTW, you can run reg gas (87) in it. I run 89 when I pull. It has two spark plugs per cylnd too. I get 16-18 MPG on highway @ 65 MPH and 12-14 city. I fun the **** out of this truck. It's fun to drive. NOTE: This truck will not be out ran or out pulled by any standard engine 3/4 ton on the market.
Dodge has made a good product here. Drive one and see. Oh, I use 5W-20 oil in my car too.

 

[BlackF250]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mettech:
I own a 03 Dodge 2500 4X4 5.7 "Hemi". Here is what I can tell you about it:
16K miles, no problems at all. Best new vehicle I ever had (I also have a 03 Merc Sable. I use Mobile 1 5W-20 in the winter and just changed it to Mobile 1 5W-30 last week. Engine runs fine with the thin oil. I change it every 5K miles.

P.S. I don't have a gun rack in the window, and I don't wear a cowboy hat. I do however have a BS degree in Management. 22 yrs in the U.S. Air
Force and I'm working on my Masters degree.

I pull a 8.5K 5th Wheel with the truck and it runs fine. However, I do wish I got the 4.10 rear end.

I drove both the Ford and Chevy 3/4 ton trucks before I purchased the Ram. It rides better, and with the 5.7 standard engine, it runs better. BTW, you can run reg gas (87) in it. I run 89 when I pull. It has two spark plugs per cylnd too. I get 16-18 MPG on highway @ 65 MPH and 12-14 city. I fun the **** out of this truck. It's fun to drive. NOTE: This truck will not be out ran or out pulled by any standard engine 3/4 ton on the market.
Dodge has made a good product here. Drive one and see. Oh, I use 5W-20 oil in my car too.

---

I should say that I have not personaly drove a Dodge with the Hemi,only the 4.7, I am only going by what I have been told and read. I am glad that you are happy with your truck, and I do envy your highway mileage, the best I have got so far is 15 MPG!! Just wanted to clarify my previous post before I satrted a Flame war.

[ April 12, 2004, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: BlackF250 ]

 

[Greaser]

Well I had a rental Dodge Hemi for a day.All I can say was that the power after 2000 rpm was unuseable for me.If there was a load in the back then I could see a use for the horsepower coming on this quick.The wheels would spin at the mere touch of the pedal...even at thirty miles per hour...a diesel would be better in my opinion.I've driven Fords with the 5.4L and the responsive horsepower was no where near that of the Hemi...the Hemi's power was "there" all the time..no how should I say this...readable power band...just wham!This might sound like a crap-load of street racing fun...and it was...but the one I had was a 4 door 4x4 big a$$ truck that had to be "feathered " when driving in an inch of snow or you'd be going sideways all the time.The Dodge Dakota I had for a week with the 360 was alot better for drivability IMO

 

[AV8R]

It takes some engineering to design a chassis that will 'hook up', or transfer power to the road, well. Apparently the Dodge pickups need some help here, as well.

 

[Schmoe]

Well, I found some information that states the thinner oils are not idea for low reving/high HP motors. The theory is the longer the stroke of the engine, the more stress occurs on the bottom end bearing from internal inertia. Thin oils find it hard to maintain the thin film lubrication on bearings when the stress becomes high. So, if the engine is working hard for long times or has massive power or long stroke, the oil needs to become thicker. Thicker oils resist destortion upon movement. The thicker oils are heavier, more resistant to heat, the longer it last.

[ April 12, 2004, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Schmoe ]

 

[mracer]

Stock Ford Lightnings are rated at 380HP/450TQ and put down 340-360HP/410-420TQ to the rear wheels. Stock, they can also run 13.2-13.4 quarter mile times. Meanwhile, we have Dodge claiming 345HP from the hemi RAM, yet they can't put more than 245HP to the wheels and struggle to run high 15's in quarter. Here's to truth in advertising. Thank you Ford.

P.S. one of the best thing's about the Lightning is the insurance cost. Same as a regular cab F-150. It cost me less to insure my 2000 Lightning than my 99 Ford Ranger supercab 4x4. No BS. The Lightning is the best bang for the buck performance vehicle ever made.

 

[Darryl]

AV8R:

It's a truck

, 70% of the weight is in the front and you can't figure out why it's hard to put 345 hp to the ground?

BlackF250:

I have driven both the "new" Ford 5.4 (F-150) and the Dodge 1500 5.7, and there is ZERO comparison between the two. Whoever told you that the 5.4 will out pull the 5.7 has obviously never driven both trucks. It's not even close. The 5.7 Hemi has a ton of torque at all RPM's and the hp is awesome.

Although, the Titan's 5.6 has them all smoked, go drive one of those and you'll never think Detroit again.


Darryl

 

[cryptokid]

bror jace asked about hemi heads on 4 valve dohc.

my take on this is that most dohc heads are more of a pentroof design or a semi hemi compared to the hemispherical shape of a hemi head. sadly the sparkplug location hadnt really anything to do with the shape of the head. you can put a sparkplug pretty much anywhere and get an engine to fire over, as evidenced by old flatheads and the ohv older engines (sbc for example) although a plug on the side is surely not optimal, it does work. the term hemi comes from the hemispherical shape of the cylinder head in the combustion chamber area.
alot of 2 cycles are hemi's or atleast semi hemi'sif that can make ya understand a bit better.
it really is not an efficent design for a n/a engine, although hemi works great with some fi for the same reasons is doesnt work great in n/a, the squish.

hemi was a good design back in the day when i presume they were still playing around with different combustion chamber designs. although any modern pentroof with a buncha squish built in to the head and piston is alot more efficent design in terms of fuel used to horsepower generated. i could love to see a belt driven dohc 4 valve v8 pentroof designed like honda but with double the cylinders. it would make me feel all tingly inside.

[ April 13, 2004, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: cryptokid ]

 

[Bror Jace]

Thanks crypto, that's something like I figured. Would you describe the pentroof chamber as a hemi chamber someone took a hammer to?

The point is that a LOT of newer motor designs breathe better ... and that's what counts.

I guess I don't see the point in raving about some "new" engine ... which has pushrods. Time to give that antigue set-up a rest.

--- Bror Jace

 

[mikep]

No doubt all the new MOPAR engines will meet an early death due to the watery 5w-20.

[ April 13, 2004, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: mikep ]

 

[AV8R]

AV8R:

It's a truck , 70% of the weight is in the front and you can't figure out why it's hard to put 345 hp to the ground?
Darryl:

Thanks for explaining this to me. My old Chevy pickup, which has a 400cid small block, B&M blower, and a little over 600 hp to the 2.56 rear end, only does high 12s-low 13s on the quarter-mile. However, it does get 13-14 mpg in town, which, of course, would probably be inadequate for your requirements. Do you think that moving some of the weight to the rear, or adding sandbags or something, would help?