The Hemi in the new Chrysler 300C gets 5w20!

[dustyjoe1]

x20 death juice: Blackf250: I am with you man. My fords are all addicted to that death juice. Havoline (4.2) and Mororcraft (5.4). Hmmm...Funny thing is they seem to like it. Go figure

 

[Narcoleptic]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bror Jace: I guess I don't see the point in raving about some "new" engine ... which has pushrods. Time to give that antigue set-up a rest.

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Are you basing that statement on age? In so, OHCs are older than pushrods.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Narcoleptic: Are you basing that statement on age? In so, OHCs are older than pushrods.

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What dates do you have for both types? It makes sense. OHC is the more direct approach, OHV look like a bunch of bean counters got inviolved in the design process later.

 

[Darryl]

AV8R: Are you telling me that you don't have any traction devices out back? STOCK trucks all have a tough time putting the power down. I guess all those guys that move their battery to the right rear at the track are wrong. And I'm not sure what you ment about "13-14 mpg not being adequate for my requirements" I didn't say anything about MPG in my 1 and only post. Darryl [ April 13, 2004, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: Darryl ]

 

[FL-400S]

quote:

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Originally posted by Darryl: STOCK trucks all have a tough time putting the power down. Darryl

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I posted that about the hemi to state that the drivetrain is where the truck is losing power, not because the tires are spinning. Who goes to a dyno and spins the tires on the dyno? Toyota and Nissan have more efficient drivetrains than the Domestics. The tundra is rated at 240hp/315lbft with its "puny" 4.7L DOHC V8. Yet it puts down 204/271 on a dyno. Titan is 305hp rated and throwing down 250hp. Hemi is 345hp and putting down 245? No doubt its still a ton of power, but something just aint right there.

 

[mracer]

Darryl, I don't mean to pick on you but you have completely missed what we are talking about when we say the new Dodge Hemi can't put it's "so called" 345HP to the wheels. This is not a traction issue. We are talking about rear wheel HP measured on a Dynometer. The point I was trying get across is that the new Hemi is WEAK, I mean really weak, for an engine that supposedly makes 345 HP. Tell me sir, how is it that a 380HP Ford F-150 Lightning is over 2 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile than a 345HP Hemi powered RAM? Either Ford seriously and outrageously underrated the Lightning or Dodge seriously and outrageously over rated the Hemi RAM.

 

[Darryl]

Sorry guys, but it was AV8R who used the terms 'hook up' and 'transfer power to the road' and those terms only mean traction to me, not drive line losses at a given %. So that was why my reply was to AV8R and no one else! Darryl [ April 13, 2004, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Darryl ]

 

[sbc350gearhead]

Let's not forget that the ram is a very heavy truck, and probably outweighs the ford lightning by about 600 pounds. The ram with the hemi isn't as fast as I thought though. I was involved in a "street skirmish" with one a few weeks ago, and I expected to get beat..........I didn't.

 

[darkdan]

Roughly every 100 pounds is a 1/10th second in a 1/4 mile.

 

[mracer]

Well after researching the Dodge website it looks like the Hemi is offered in a LARAMIE 4X2 SWB package that weighs 4698lbs with the automatic transmission. The Ford Lightning weighs in at 4670lbs. The Lightning's abilities, 5.2 0-60, and low to mid 13 1/4 mile, (what was that about trucks not being able to hook up all that power to the pavement?) really comes from the exceptional powerband of torque (450 lb-ft @ 3,250 rpm) produced by the 5.4L SOHC V-8 with the Eaton M-112 roots type supercharger. And all that torque comes in just where you need it for getting all that weight moving. It also makes for an incredible drive, being able to out accelerate anything but the fastest cars I have ever encountered on the road. The icing on the cake is the cornering ability and the Guinness certified top speed set last August at 147.714 mph in a stock Lightning with only the mirrors folded in and antenna removed. [ April 13, 2004, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: mracer ]

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by AV8R: Chrysler 'borrowed' the head design for their hemi engines of the 50s. As far as their 'legendary reputation' goes, the engines were mediocre in performance because the hemi head didn't allow for much compression ratio. The real strength of the engine, in my opinion, was that the low compression made it easy to supercharge, with great results. Those were hot engines, but the production versions never showed much promise. The engine was redesigned in the mid 60s, still not much of an engine. Reliability in standard configuration was subpar, and trying to make a performer from this engine was impossible mainly because the thing had pushrods as long as your arm, and revving it one rpm above seven thousand would leave parts all up and down the street. The 'new hemi', as it is advertsed, is a wedge design kind of twisted sideways. It is still mediocre in performance, but seems to be even less reliable than the 'legendary' engines of the past. I would stop short of calling it junk..well, maybe not... but DC's marketing plan to sell the line, especially the trucks, to the 'supermacho' guy set seems to be working. The buyers in this area seem to always have gun racks in their rear windows, and wear a lot of camouflage.

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OMG, 99% of what you have written here is so INACCURATE I don't even know where to begin. I just got in from driving over 1000 miles, but I'll make a post sometime this week that will set the record straight regarding the Chrysler Hemi--both past and present.

 

[Darryl]

mracer: I wonder what would happen if Dodge put a blower on the 5.7 Hemi Ram??? You are comparing a forced induction motor against a N/A motor, not exactly apples for apples....... But hey, whatever gets you Ford guys going! And along the lines that you have set for comparison, I'll take the 500+hp Dodge Ram SRT 10 and you can have the Lightning. See you at the finish line, I'll be the one there waiting for you to finally cross. P.S. The one thing about records is, they're made to be broken. February 2 2004, Dodge Ram SRT 10 (with the mirrors out and the antenna on) sets a new Guiness Book of World Record, with a top speed of 154.587mph, making it the fastest production truck on the planet. Darryl [ April 14, 2004, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: Darryl ]

 

[mracer]

As to the Hemi RAM comparison, it is fair because I am just pointing out how a high HP number does not mean much. Add a blower to the Hemi and it may go KABOOM. As far as the RAM SRT-10, yes there is a 6.873mph top speed advantage for the $12,645 extra. I hate using magazine numbers but here is MotorTrends test data: 2004 Dodge RAM SRT-10 0-60 mph, sec 5.2 1/4 mile, sec 13.86 MSRP=$46,200, marked as high as $55,000 2003 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning(no change for 2004) 0-60 mph, sec 5.2 1/4 mile, sec 13.7 MSRP=$33,555, can be had for $29,000 [ April 14, 2004, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: mracer ]

 

[Darryl]

It's tuff 'hooking up' all that SRT 10's power to the ground. I have seen magazines test numbers all over the place. I have seen the lightning as slow as 6.5 0-60, so it's hard to take numbers from just one source. The Lightning is no doubt BADAZZ, but the SRT 10 is the BADERAZZ Whoever MotorTrend had driving the SRT 10 needs to find a different line of work. Darryl [ April 14, 2004, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: Darryl ]

 

[69 Riv GS]

Comparing "peak" horsepower numbers (380hp vs. 345hp) doesn't tell the whole story. You have to look at the entire "power curve". The lightnings' torque curve is much "fatter"; because of the supercharger. Horsepower is just torque multiplied by time. IMHO it's really not a fair comparison, the regular 5.4 would be though. Pushrod engines actually do have some advantages: Size, DOHC engines in the same displacement average 6" wider and 2" taller not to mention they're 20-30 pounds heavier. No one can deny the LS6 is a pushrod powerhouse,(so was the 426ci Hemi) rivaling DOHC VTEC V-8's in cars that cost twice as much. By the way, the 426 Hemi dominated stock car and drag racing from the mid 60's thru the early 70's. Also the street hemi (66-69) came with 10.5 or 10.75:1 compression ratio, the race hemi came with 12.5:1 ; not exactly low... And a street hemi would stay together fine with 7000rpm shift points,(super stockers were shifting around 8000); they were reliable, but hard to keep in tune on the street. Car& Driver did a 300C 5.7 Hemi test, IMHO it did well; car weighs over 4000lbs. 0-60mph low to mid 5's 0-100mph low to mid 13's 1/4 mile 13 second range, sorry I don't have the exact times . [ April 14, 2004, 02:48 AM: Message edited by: 69 Riv GS ]

 

[Stooge]

Maybe Chrysler will one day build a "real AND modern" engine. The "Hemi" is a marketing game looking to gather in the "good ole boy." Just look at their commercials. Actually, pretty pathetic the stereotypes they enact. Maybe a real good, powerful, efficient engine has dual overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder, direct ignition, composite cylinder liners, great materials utilized and meticulous workmanship. Can we in the States build one of these?? I think we can, because we sure did teach the Europeans and Japanese how to!! The Chrysler chronies need to walk over and talk with Mercedes folks and maybe get some pointers, instead of giving us 40 year old technology and assuming we are just "dumb good ole boys."

 

[Darryl]

So I guess 'real and modern' must mean 4 vales per cylinder, variable intake runners, variable valve timing?? That is hogwash, there is infact nothing at all wrong with those features on any size motor, for any size vehicle. Just the same, there is nothing wrong with pushrods and 2 valves per cylinder either. As of now we are speaking of trucks, and I would rather have "old inferior" pushrods in my low-reving truck, so I don't have to rev the crap out of it to get to all that power. Unlike DOHC motors that make their peak torque at a much higher rpm, remember, we're talking truck motors here. Darryl

 

[BlackF250]

I have just kind of sat back and watched this thread take off, but now I need to put my two cents in! First off, Darryl, Have you ever owned a Dodge truck? Yes the numbers look impressive on the SRT/10, but after all, it is a DODGE! That means that the Ford will still beat it after a couple of races because the Dodge tranny will let go and the rear differential will lock up. Also the Lightning is a much more refined truck, it handles much better, rides better, and "hooks-up" better! As for your touting the new Nissan, how can you say I will never look back to Detroit? The Nissan just came out so it is yet to be proven. I went to look at one just for giggles, The frame is puny, the sheet metal beer can thin, the interior is cheap and feels like you are driving a mini van. Not to mention the fact that it is ugly as sin! It has been on the market for about the same time as the new f-150, yet I have not seen a SINGLE Titan on the road, but the new 150 is EVERYWHERE! So obviously most people share my opinion. Also as far as making "us Ford boys happy" what makes me happy is that my current F-250 is my 6th Ford truck, they have all been trouble-free and extremely durable. That is what truck ownership is about, not who's truck does 0-60 the quickest, or has the best cup-holder, it is a truck that can take a beating for many years and keep getting the job done. This was not meant to be a personal attack, I am just defending my personal views. O.K. Back to the topic at hand, I think 5w20 will be fine in the Hemi!

 

[BlackF250]

Sorry Darryl, but I have to jump in again. I have no problem with pushrod motors, but to say you have to "rev the crap" out of an OHC motor is false. Have you looked at the power band of Ford's motors? They develop their peak torque at a much lower and useable RPM than The mighty HEMI. Also the torque curve remains flat throughout the RPM range.

 

[Darryl]

Hey BlackF250, I was wondering when you'd chime in As a matter of fact I currently own 2 Dodge trucks, both Dakotas, one a V6 (work) the other is an R/T (NOT work, trust me). Any frame would look wimpy compared to an F-250, or any other 3/4 ton truck. I live in So Cal and there are alot of Titans running around, if you ever get the chance, go test drive one and see for yourself about the power and quality. As for 0-60, and "hooking up" and all that stuff. Rest assured that my highly modified Dakota R/T does both of these things VERY well. I know all about being a "sheep" and driving what everybody else drives (Ford F Series)..........My wife drives an Accord! Darryl P.S. I agree, 5w-20 will be fine in the Hemi!! [ April 14, 2004, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Darryl ]