Texas bill that introduces $200 fee on EVs to fund roads just passed

[demarpaint]

So use facts. The tailpipe is just at the power plant. Coal, natural gas all produce emissions.

I’m not anti-EV, I’m pro honesty.

I clearly said they were less (or may be, not sure how the electric Hummer is going to stack up next to a Prius)

So yeah, let’s be honest. Until all electricity is produced without using hydrocarbons, the tailpipe is simply somewhere else.

I agree, and lets face it if you get pollution numbers from EV proponents the numbers will be skewed to promote their cause. The same can be said for the oil industry. I believe very little information published about the EV when it comes to their environmental impact, when you factor in obtaining lithium and power generation into the mix. IMO they're not as green as people make them out to be.

 

[Wingo]

I agree, and lets face it if you get pollution numbers from EV proponents the numbers will be skewed to promote their cause. The same can be said for the oil industry. I believe very little information published about the EV when it comes to their environmental impact, when you factor in obtaining lithium and power generation into the mix. IMO they're not as green as people make them out to be.

True, the growing lithium mines in africa are a human rights and environmental disaster. A lot like the blood diamonds we have been hearing about for years.

 

[Torrid]

I agree, and lets face it if you get pollution numbers from EV proponents the numbers will be skewed to promote their cause. The same can be said for the oil industry. I believe very little information published about the EV when it comes to their environmental impact, when you factor in obtaining lithium and power generation into the mix. IMO they're not as green as people make them out to be.

Green is such a misnomer. Like mentioned you can argue you can argue it either way depending on where you're located, how your power is generated, and how much your fuel costs. For me, power is much cheaper than gas here, but working for the railroad I move a lot of coal for the power company, see an absolute sea of windmills the whole way on my standard 37 mile commute. Solar? I see it, but it's probably not the best location for it. At the end of the day the only thing you can do is buy what you like because one isn't exponentially worse than another stock. I feel like heavily modded diesels are another thing, but that's a small part of the population.

 

[brianl703]

I don’t have a problem with reporting mileage, but cars aren’t designed to have something plugged into the port at all times. I’m surprised this is an acceptable answer and no manufactures don’t outright say don’t do this.

What's funny about this is that Virginia has an annual safety inspection. The mileage could be recorded then and sent to the DMV.

But the people that run Virginia could screw up a 2-car funeral procession (at the same time they think they're doing the best job in the world), so this is what they came up with.

 

[javacontour]

It’s still less emissions because of how it’s produced, instead of an individual powerplant in each car, which is why I said it the way I did. So much so that by 20k miles even with additional emissions from creating the battery it’s already produced less than an equivalent ICE car at that same mileage. That’s significant.

I get my take from Engineering Explained
The break-even for replacing the typical car with an EV (at the time of the video, and it was 5 years ago) is about 5 years. So if someone bought an EV when the video was made, chances are, they would just about be at the break even point over continuing to drive their vehicle.
My point, which I thought was clear, AND did not ignore the fact that emissions per mile were less, was that the emissions still exist.
Just because there is no tailpipe on a Tesla doesn't mean NOBODY is breathing the emissions of the powerplant that produced the electricity.
Don't get me wrong, folks on the ICE side of things cherry pick their arguments too.
The point is, and it's stated in the video in the link, Your "Greenness" may vary based on where you are and how you use the vehicle.
But there is no free ride. You simply trade where and how the emissions and environmental impact occurs.

 

[Torrid]

I get my take from Engineering Explained
The break-even for replacing the typical car with an EV (at the time of the video, and it was 5 years ago) is about 5 years. So if someone bought an EV when the video was made, chances are, they would just about be at the break even point over continuing to drive their vehicle.
My point, which I thought was clear, AND did not ignore the fact that emissions per mile were less, was that the emissions still exist.
Just because there is no tailpipe on a Tesla doesn't mean NOBODY is breathing the emissions of the powerplant that produced the electricity.
Don't get me wrong, folks on the ICE side of things cherry pick their arguments too.
The point is, and it's stated in the video in the link, Your "Greenness" may vary based on where you are and how you use the vehicle.
But there is no free ride. You simply trade where and how the emissions and environmental impact occurs.

No disagreement there. There are areas of the country where one may make more sense than another. I don’t think environmental impact is the answer. Buy what you prefer for sure. I know in my area my Tesla is much cheaper to operate, but I love the turbo EA888 in my GTI so much. The combo of that with the DSG with its light weight is such a joy to hustle through back roads. I love driving experience as a car enthusiast above all else. The love of the drive is everything to me. It stirs my soul and it’s my biggest joy in life. I love cars and car culture.

 

[LDB]

All I know is when I was running trucks it cost me ~$70 annually for my personal vehicle and ~$1100 annually for each truck to register plates. And fuel taxes $500-$600 per quarter per truck versus ~$50-60 per quarter personal vehicle.

 

[JeffKeryk]

And people like me would rather fly if going any real distance...

 

[PandaBear]

Yeah, it should be charged per kWh, which is the equivalent of gallons/litres we use for gasoline. The cars track how many kWh they use and the charge interface includes communication which is usually bidirectional, smart meters would record the kWh from the vehicle charging and public charging would automatically include the fee. So, if you charge at home, it's on your electricity bill, if you public charge, it's part of what you pay.

Like with gas, this avoids having to track the # of miles, it's tied to efficiency, which naturally includes weight, which means wear and tear on the roads. A heavier car will consume more power in use; use more kWh per drive cycle, resulting in more tax being collected and the inverse for lighter cars.

Texas have a lot of toll road instead of fuel tax to pay for free highway. I think charging per vehicle instead of per gallon or per kwh is something they would prefer as they have cheap fuel / electricity and big vehicles, and to be honest $200/yr is not a lot of money.

 

[LDB]

Texas have a lot of toll road instead of fuel tax to pay for free highway. I think charging per vehicle instead of per gallon or per kwh is something they would prefer as they have cheap fuel / electricity and big vehicles, and to be honest $200/yr is not a lot of money.

Not me. I drive about 300 miles a month, about $20 a year in fuel taxes at the pump. No $200 for me please.

 

[PandaBear]

Not me. I drive about 300 miles a month, about $20 a year in fuel taxes at the pump. No $200 for me please.

If you are driving only 300 miles a month, wouldn't you waste a lot of money buying an EV? The battery depreciation alone would cost you more than $200 a year, way more.

 

[LDB]

I expect a major increase in miles driven, possibly as high as 400/mo. I imagine my Escape will be my last car. Unless I win the lotto. Although my best half keeps going on about some nonsense of having to buy a ticket or something.

 

[Torrid]

Not me. I drive about 300 miles a month, about $20 a year in fuel taxes at the pump. No $200 for me please.

This is why the $200 is ridiculous.

 

[Ws6]

Mileage logged annually at inspections and reported will take care of that.

Definitely will see a lot of odometer roll back activity, lol!

 

[demarpaint]

Definitely will see a lot of odometer roll back activity, lol!

It's not so easy anymore, but creative minds will always try and find a way to beat the system.

 

[4WD]

This is why the $200 is ridiculous.

What’s ridiculous is this thread keeps going over $200 that 98% of you aren’t going to pay …

 

[Torrid]

What’s ridiculous is this thread keeps going over $200 that 98% of you aren’t going to pay …

I mean that's one way to look at it, but that doesn't make it right for those that pay it. I had to pay $100 for Wisconsin and that's about about $50 too high for my usage.

 

[Cujet]

I mean that's one way to look at it, but that doesn't make it right for those that pay it. I had to pay $100 for Wisconsin and that's about about $50 too high for my usage.

And, that is the crux of the issue. It is a use based tax. It needs to be accurately based on electricity consumed.

 

[LDM]

Illinois charges an extra $100 per year for plate stickers for EVs currently. Expect that to go up as Illinois has never met a tax it didn't like.

Of course what will be even worse for EV owners here will be when Ameren and IL State roll out the extra charging fees for EVs. Last I've seen the plan is to have that in place within the next 5 year here. If you think an extra $100 a year is bad, $1-$2 a KWh to charge your vehicle will be much worse, especially when the average electric rate around here is $0.14 per KWh currently, although Ameren has been lobbying as hard as it can to get more rate increases for everything.

 

[Torrid]

Illinois charges an extra $100 per year for plate stickers for EVs currently. Expect that to go up as Illinois has never met a tax it didn't like.

Of course what will be even worse for EV owners here will be when Ameren and IL State roll out the extra charging fees for EVs. Last I've seen the plan is to have that in place within the next 5 year here. If you think an extra $100 a year is bad, $1-$2 a KWh to charge your vehicle will be much worse, especially when the average electric rate around here is $0.14 per KWh currently, although Ameren has been lobbying as hard as it can to get more rate increases for everything.

Do you have city stickers in your area? Where I grew up at in Illinois we had a stupid sticker that had to be put in the windshield yearly in addition to the plate stickers. Illinois is good at keeping a grip on your wallet for sure.