Tesla model S - Impressions

[Vikas]

Funny thing is that if you contrast this graph with a typical gas powered (and similarly powered) vehicle, the graph would look similar if you only look at the portion after 60 mph.

This is my way of telling you that aerodynamics play a major role in terms of how typical miles vs speed graph looks like.

Only in a gasser there would be a peak on the graph around the 45 mph.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Funny thing is that if you contrast this graph with a typical gas powered (and similarly powered) vehicle, the graph would look similar if you only look at the portion after 60 mph.

This is my way of telling you that aerodynamics play a major role in terms of how typical miles vs speed graph looks like.

Only in a gasser there would be a peak on the graph around the 45 mph.

It depends on the transmission. The best gas mileage is at the lowest RPM that the engine isn't buckling. For my S2000 the best gas mileage on a flat surface is 6th gear at 1900-2000 RPM and speed of 35-36 MPH, the Ultra gauge showed 38-40 MPG. It went down to 32-34 MPG at 45 MPH with engine running at 2500-2600 RPM.

The E430 has best gas mileage at 38-40 MPH with around 1300-1400 RPM.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I'm guessing these cars are basically only good to putt around town in and not designed for highway road trips. It wouldn't make it from my house to my best friend's house in Dallas without running out of juice,but my car will make it on about half a tank of gas (my car has a 20 gallon gas tank) driving 85-90 mph. But then again,Texas is a huge state.

Battery electric vehicles are good for shorter daily drives of less than about 200 miles. For longer distance travel these Tesla vehicles are the best right now, mainly because they have Super-Charger stations along major highways that you can charge your Tesla in about 30 minutes to get about 200 miles. You can drive about 2.5-3 hours in a Tesla then take a 30 minutes break.

Other electric vehicle manufactures don't have their own chargers, you need to drive into town to find public chargers(and pay to use it).

There were someone who drove a Tesla across the country(from NY to CA and from CA to FL), using Tesla free Super-Charger stations along the way.

It isn't as convenience as ICE vehicle, but doable.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: badtlc
acceleration isn't going to affect your range. Braking, cruising speeds, accessory usage are going to be what affects the range. An electric motor doesn't have to dump fuel to accelerate like a combustion engine.

Yes, it will. Remember: There Is No Free Lunch! Regenerative braking will help range. Ambient temp will also play a major role.


You are both correct! However, VERY RAPID acceleration comes with such a small penalty, as to be inconsequential.

Force equals mass times acceleration. F=ma. This is a cornerstone formula in physics.

The energy required to accelerate a 5000 pound car from 0 to 60 MPH is the same, regardless of the rate of acceleration. We can do it in 3 seconds or 30 seconds, it matters not!

High current drain for 3 sec, or modest current drain for 30 seconds. The end result is 361Kj energy consumed.

However, there is a "slight" increase in electrical resistance (of the very ample conductors and battery) at the high current loads of the Tesla Model S under maximum acceleration (maximum current flow) . This leads to a very small increase in battery consumption.

In addition, getting to 60MPH faster results in more time at 60MPH, and therefore more time at speeds that reduce range.

Conclusion:

Going flat out 0-60 mph uses less than 0.09 kWh of energy from your battery MORE than going very slowly 0-60 mph. One would have to do 11 flat out 0-60 runs to consume 1Kwh additional battery power vs grandma.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
HTSS_TR: Handling is surprisingly good, you can really feel the low centre of gravity. The AWD makes it feel significantly different from the M5, it is not tail-happy at all, if you power into a turn you can't seem to get the rear-end to step out. It comes shod in some factory Michelin tires which are surprisingly good (they are not PSS's or anything like that). It has multiple ride height options, though we spent the majority of the time with it in "Sport" which drops the car down a bit (not sure on the exact amount).

Performance:
Acceleration is like taking off in a really fast jet. With the AWD and torque of the electric motors, it just hooks solid and pulls like a freight train. The eerie silence and lack of shifting just adds to the experience. The car feels very balanced, but heavy. The weight being so low I'm sure aides in how well it sticks.

The advantage of a Battery EV is the low center of gravity, this alone does improve handling somewhat. The possible weakness of model S is the steering feel, they are newcomer to the auto industry therefore they don't have much experiences to design a good steering as in a BMW.

The advantage of an electric motor is instant torque at 0 RPM, their 0-30MPH acceleration is hard to beat. But their acceleration of 60-100MPH and 100-150MPH are not as good as some super cars.

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Controls:
The controls on the absolutely massive LCD take some getting used to but the screen is fantastic. There are no real buttons other than the one on the end of the gear selector. Interior space is extremely generous since there is no transmission tunnel or traditional centre console. The floor is completely flat save for the "tray" that is on the floor between the seats.

Another advantage of battery under the passenger floor and small electric motor(s) over ICE vehicle.


Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Comfort/fit and finish:
This one is going to be a bit subjective but here we go: The M5 was better put together inside. Better materials choice, better seats, better door handles, it felt far more like you were in a cockpit piloting the car than in the Tesla, which felt more like a Ford Fusion. The seats were decent, but not as good as the ones in the M5 or SRT-8 Charger. The M5 had the best factory seats I've experienced. The door trim and handles had a plastic feel to them, which surprised me at the price point ($110K). The M5 had soft-touch, leather and brushed aluminum. The Charger has decent door panels (suede) and I might posit them being a bit better here too (the bolster on the Charger panels attaches to the door in a funny fashion which doesn't affect functionality but has a strange appearance, that's my biggest gripe with them). The M5 and SRT-8 both have better steering wheels as well. Better materials, better feel.

Door panel spacing (between the door and pillar) and trim spacing was a little off, which surprised me. The M5 was perfectly uniform here. Exterior was much better with everything lining up like it should.

This is what I feel too when I sat in Model S in a shopping mall in So Cal. It isn't bad but it doesn't feel as luxurious as 7-series or S-class. It is better than Accord, but it isn't worth it in a car that costs more than $100k.

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Ride:
The ride quality was very good, likely due in part to the weight as well. It was not harsh on sport, but retained composure over bumps. NVH was excellent, there was very little road noise and of course zero engine or drivetrain noise. On long drives it strikes me as being very relaxing to drive. Due to how heavy it feels, I can't really compare the ride to the M5 or the Charger, it is different, I can't say better or worse.


Overall I can really see the draw of the car for somebody who loves tech, like myself. However, at this price point, I expected a better interior. The gadgets and features are all really nice, but they don't excuse the fit and finish. The acceleration is addictive, so I doubt I would get anywhere near EPA driving it regularly. It is very easy to see why these cars are selling, but I would say this is primarily due to the tech and gadgets, not the luxury, which I believe BMW, Mercedes and Audi all do better at this price point.

Can Tesla do better interior ? I think they can but at a much higher cost. I think currently they try to keep the cost at reasonable level to be able to sell as many as they can produce. As of now they're marketing model S and X as performance vehicles, not luxury ones.

About gas mileage, in this case power consumption, you probably didn't get EPA mileage when you drive your cars, right ? I never got the EPA mileage when I drive the E430 or S2000 in town. On highway I may get slightly better EPA when I try to stay close to speed limit. On winding mountain road, forget the gas mileage fun is what I have in my mind.


Thank for posting your experience with model S. It is a little too expensive for me, and I am downsizing looking for compact or sub-compact vehicle. Model 3 is probably better fit my budget and I like its size too.

 

[AZjeff]

Apparently Tesla can't produce the power and technology package AND a high end luxury interior at that price point or surely they would.

If you find yourself out of battery and not near a charging station does it have an on-board slow charger you can plug into 110V?

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Apparently Tesla can't produce the power and technology package AND a high end luxury interior at that price point or surely they would.

If you find yourself out of battery and not near a charging station does it have an on-board slow charger you can plug into 110V?

Yes, you can charge Tesla's battery with AC power outlet at 120V or 240V, most Tesla owners charge their car at home.

In general, a company either decrease contents to have their products at the price they can sell with the profit margin they need, or they have to raise price with higher content to keep the same profit margin.

Tesla chose to have the model S at lower price point therefore they have to design it with lower interior quality, even then their cars are at the price that many here say they are toys for the rich.

I think the Li-on batteries were very expensive still, 80 KWH probably costs north of $30k. With Gigafactory un at full capacity by next year Tesla hopes that battery costs will be lower by 30%, that is the reason they can sell base model 3 for $35k and still make small profit.

 

[Cujet]

I think the 110V conventional plug will charge the Tesla at the rate of 3 miles per hour. 3 miles of range that is.

Tesla claims 5 miles range per hour, but real world users see 3. Including both Tesla's my friend owns.

A 90Kwh battery would take about 100 hours from completely empty to full at the typical 110v rate.

The charge rate really depends on the energy being delivered to the car. The higher the voltage, the more miles per hour charge you get. Some places have220 or 230V, some 240V. The higher voltage charges faster.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
[Yes, you can charge Tesla's battery with AC power outlet at 120V or 240V, most Tesla owners charge their car at home.


My understanding is that they require you to hire an electrician for the charging station at your house, which doesn't use 115/120V, but rather 240V:

https://www.teslamotors.com/en_CA/support/home-charging-installation

Which was what was told to me during our discussion of the car. I believe she opted for the Wall Connector option as well, which Tesla came and installed.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
[Yes, you can charge Tesla's battery with AC power outlet at 120V or 240V, most Tesla owners charge their cars at home.


My understanding is that they require you to hire an electrician for the charging station at your house, which doesn't use 115/120V, but rather 240V:

https://www.teslamotors.com/en_CA/support/home-charging-installation

Which was what was told to me during our discussion of the car. I believe she opted for the Wall Connector option as well, which Tesla came and installed.

Tesla USA clearly stated that its car can use 110 volt outlet.
Quote:
Your Model S comes with:
Public charging station adapter (J1772, 72 amp capable)
Single Charger (10 kW)
Mobile Connector with adapters for a 110 volt outlet and a 240 volt outlet


https://www.teslamotors.com/models-charging#/outlet

Public charging station adapter; I saw Tesla used public charging station probably with this adapter.

Single Charger (10 kW); I have no idea what this is and how to use it. I think Model 3 may not have this as standard equipment.

240 volt outlet would cut charging time approximately by half compares with 110 volt outlet for the same driving distance.

It is very unusual that Tesla recommends two difference home charging methods for US and Canada.

 

[OVERKILL]

I see the same thing on the US site:
https://www.teslamotors.com/support/home-charging-installation?redirect=no

Originally Posted By: Tesla

To prepare your home for charging, hire an electrician to install an outlet near where you park your Tesla vehicle, convenient to the charge port location in the driver’s side rear tail light. Most customers install a 240 volt NEMA 14-50 outlet which will charge their Tesla vehicles at the rate of about 30 miles of range each hour. Identify your daily charge time using the Home Charging Calculator.


The vehicle CAN be charged using 115/120V, but that's not what they advise for a home charging setup according to their own website.

Originally Posted By: Tesla

How do I charge Tesla vehicles at home?
Every Tesla is delivered with the following charging equipment:

20 foot long Mobile Connector cord
Two Mobile Connector adapters
240 volt NEMA 14-50 adapter
120 volt NEMA 5-15 adapter
J1772 public charging adapter

One of the most convenient aspects of ownership is waking up every morning to a full charge. Tesla recommends installing a NEMA 14-50 outlet for use with the Mobile Connector and NEMA 14-50 adapter. Alternatively, a Tesla Wall Connector (optional equipment) can also be installed near your parking spot to prepare for home charging.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I see the same thing on the US site:
https://www.teslamotors.com/support/home-charging-installation?redirect=no

Originally Posted By: Tesla
To prepare your home for charging, hire an electrician to install an outlet near where you park your Tesla vehicle, convenient to the charge port location in the driver’s side rear tail light. Most customers install a 240 volt NEMA 14-50 outlet which will charge their Tesla vehicles at the rate of about 30 miles of range each hour. Identify your daily charge time using the Home Charging Calculator.

The vehicle CAN be charged using 115/120V, but that's not what they advise for a home charging setup according to their own website.

I didn't look at "home-charging-installation", I just looked at adapter available for Model S.

This was my previous post "Yes, you can charge Tesla's battery with AC power outlet at 120V or 240V, most Tesla owners charge their cars at home"

I didn't say Tesla recommend 120V or 240V, because I didn't know which Tesla recommended then, until you posted here.

Originally Posted By: Tesla

How do I charge Tesla vehicles at home?
Every Tesla is delivered with the following charging equipment:

20 foot long Mobile Connector cord
Two Mobile Connector adapters
240 volt NEMA 14-50 adapter
120 volt NEMA 5-15 adapter
J1772 public charging adapter

One of the most convenient aspects of ownership is waking up every morning to a full charge. Tesla recommends installing a NEMA 14-50 outlet for use with the Mobile Connector and NEMA 14-50 adapter. Alternatively, a Tesla Wall Connector (optional equipment) can also be installed near your parking spot to prepare for home charging.

Looks to me there are many options for home charging, I will look into it in more details few months before I get my Model 3, probably late 2018 or early 2019.

Also, need to see if there are any rebate and/or tax incentive(s) for home charging station before end of 2018.

Worse case scenario, just charge model 3 with standard 110V outlet. This car will be wife's car and her daily commute is about 35-40 miles round trip, 12-14 hours charging time from 5-6PM to 7AM is enough for her commute. Then spend some time to research which is the most optimum charge station.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yes, there are many ways to charge the car (they are quite flexible with their charging options) but it would appear that they want you to hire an electrician to set it up for charging on 240V for your home base, at least based on the information provided on their website.

Can you ignore that requirement? I can't see why not. But it does seem to run contrary to what they are advising. I would imagine 120V is "worst case scenario" sort of thing and provided for that reason.

 

[HTSS_TR]

No, it isn't ignoring their recommendation.

I just don't know which of the charging options are best for our use, if we eventually will get the Model 3.

Probably the NEMA 14-50 outlet for use with the Mobile Connector and NEMA 14-50 adapter is most appropriate option for our use.

But, since the 110V outlet can be used (at least temporary), I will wait until we get our hands on model 3 first then worrying about charging method later.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
No, it isn't ignoring their recommendation.


Well yes, not doing what they recommend is, functionally, ignoring their recommendation. I'm not condemning you for considering it, simply indicating that it runs contrary to what they advise.

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I just don't know which of the charging options are best for our use, if we eventually will get the Model 3.

Probably the NEMA 14-50 outlet for use with the Mobile Connector and NEMA 14-50 adapter is most appropriate option for our use.

But, since the 110V outlet can be used (at least temporary), I will wait until we get our hands on model 3 first then worrying about charging method later.


Yes, the dryer/stove plug (NEMA 14-50) is the most appropriate as per Tesla, and makes sense for most owners, that's why they recommend it.

 

[123Saab]

Side Effect of owning a Electric car:

None of your friends invite you over anymore as they got tired of you charging your car at their house everytime you came over.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Side Effect of owning a Electric car:

None of your friends invite you over anymore as they got tired of you charging your car at their house everytime you came over.

Haha it's like "Honey? Why the [censored] is our electric bill so high!" "Tell your friend to start plugging that [censored] car in at the next door neighbor's house from now own,they'll never know haha"

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Side Effect of owning a Electric car:

None of your friends invite you over anymore as they got tired of you charging your car at their house everytime you came over.

Bring a couple cases of his favorite beers, everything will be okay after he had 5-6 bottles.

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Haha it's like "Honey? Why the [censored] is our electric bill so high!" "Tell your friend to start plugging that [censored] car in at the next door neighbor's house from now own,they'll never know haha"

Bought her a pair of shoes for a month, next month a new purse ... You do what you have to do.