Tesla has the highest death rate of any manufacturer

[demarpaint]

Lets face it "Tesla has the highest death rate of any manufacturer" is not a title I'd want to be reading if I owned one. It wouldn't leave me with warm and fuzzy feelings. What amazes me is how some people will try and put all the blame on the driver, defending the vehicle like they'd defend their child or spouse. lol Don't get me wrong there are a lot of a-holes in my neck of the woods driving them, but not every single Tesla owner is a bad driver or a-hole. So imo that puts a nice chunk of the blame on the vehicle.

 

[Torrid]

Lets face it "Tesla has the highest death rate of any manufacturer" is not a title I'd want to be reading if I owned one. It wouldn't leave me with warm and fuzzy feelings. What amazes me is how some people will try and put all the blame on the driver, defending the vehicle like they'd defend their child or spouse. lol Don't get me wrong there are a lot of a-holes in my neck of the woods driving them, but not every single Tesla owner is a bad driver or a-hole. So imo that puts a nice chunk of the blame on the vehicle.

I'm just trying to make sense of how it got to that, because it has top marks in crash tests. There has to be another factor. You even cite you see the difference between bad drivers and normal drivers which has been my point. Many people point out they deal with more a-hole drivers in Teslas that other makes. That doesn't sound like much of a coincidence.

 

[demarpaint]

I'm just trying to make sense of how it got to that, because it has top marks in crash tests. There has to be another factor. You even cite you see the difference between bad drivers and normal drivers which has been my point. Many people point out they deal with more a-hole drivers in Teslas that other makes. That doesn't sound like much of a coincidence.

Once again FTR there are good and bad drivers in all makes and models. I've stated before in my neck of the woods BMW takes the title for the most reckless a-hole drivers around, hands down. Tesla is catching up, but still has quite a way to go. Having said that I'm not reading BMW having the highest death rate articles, and there are a lot more BMWs on the road. So yes there has to be more to it, maybe they aren't as safe as claimed?

 

[Torrid]

Once again FTR there are good and bad drivers in all makes and models. I've stated before in my neck of the woods BMW takes the title for the most reckless a-hole drivers around, hands down. Tesla is catching up, but still has quite a way to go. Having said that I'm not reading BMW having the highest death rate articles, and there are a lot more BMWs on the road. So yes there has to be more to it, maybe they aren't as safe as claimed?

Safe as claimed? They go through the same crash tests every vehicle does. It's not a random claim. I don't know what could be a contributing factor to it, but there's only a couple of options. Either distraction or speed, which would land squarely on the operator. You should see the online community for Tesla. It would make your skin crawl for the kind of random damage some people do to their cars and wheels in particular. It seems it's common to be an inattentive driver unaware of surroundings. I've never been an owner of a vehicle that falls into a category of a car that normal, non enthusiasts buy. It's a bit eye opening to say the least.

Outside of that I'm ready to blame FSD because I've seen how it operates and won't use it for a few things I've seen.

 

[JeffKeryk]

What exactly is considered "sufficient acceleration"? Obviously 0-60 in 30 seconds was sufficient for you with the VW, you thought it was a great car.

Mine supposedly had a big bore kit; maybe closer to 1500 cc? I don't remember. A valve cover fell off the 1200 and the engine was damaged. Weird. A friend's friend had a sideline building VW engines; I got the 1500 for like $125 and my 1200. Drove that thing all over for next to nothing. Cheapo radial tires made it just about perfect! I ultimately sold it to the rebuilder for his wife a couple years later.

Great car. It would be fun to have today. You know, it sure felt faster than it was. One of the very best cars I have ever owned; it never let me down after I put the rebuilt engine in. I even put an 8-track in.
Today, traffic is much faster than it was in the early 70's, times are different.

 

[demarpaint]

Safe as claimed? They go through the same crash tests every vehicle does. It's not a random claim. I don't know what could be a contributing factor to it, but there's only a couple of options. Either distraction or speed, which would land squarely on the operator. You should see the online community for Tesla. It would make your skin crawl for the kind of random damage some people do to their cars and wheels in particular. It seems it's common to be an inattentive driver unaware of surroundings. I've never been an owner of a vehicle that falls into a category of a car that normal, non enthusiasts buy. It's a bit eye opening to say the least.

Outside of that I'm ready to blame FSD because I've seen how it operates and won't use it for a few things I've seen.

We seem to be agreeing on some points. Look at it another way, safety isn't all about crash tests. Things like FSD factors into safety as well. You're smart enough to know its limitations, not everyone is. Disclaimers, alerts, verbiage in the owner's manual imo is total BS if the system/systems are causing accidents. That's just the legal team figuring a way out to keep unsafe options in the vehicles. So once again there are the diehards who will shift blame to the driver, never the vehicle. I haven't seen the commercial in a while for GM trucks with the jackass driver clapping his hands passing a vehicle, IIRC with him towing a trailer and his family in the truck. What's the point? Crash and take the whole family to the boneyard, or the vehicle can do it and the driver is a tool? They should show that with the truck hitting a pothole here on the LIE. I bet that changes the dynamics a bit.

 

[Torrid]

We seem to be agreeing on some points. Look at it another way, safety isn't all about crash tests. Things like FSD factors into safety as well. You're smart enough to know its limitations, not everyone is. Disclaimers, alerts, verbiage in the owner's manual imo is total BS if the system/systems are causing accidents. That's just the legal team figuring a way out to keep unsafe options in the vehicles. So once again there are the diehards who will shift blame to the driver, never the vehicle. I haven't seen the commercial in a while for GM trucks with the jackass driver clapping his hands passing a vehicle, IIRC with him towing a trailer and his family in the truck. What's the point? Crash and take the whole family to the boneyard, or the vehicle can do it and the driver is a tool? They should show that with the truck hitting a pothole here on the LIE. I bet that changes the dynamics a bit.

I get it, but I don't know why we'd blame the vehicle here. Does judgement go out the window the second we buy a car that can do these things? I know for many it is. I prefer common sense, but I've been told that's on its way out.

 

[demarpaint]

I get it, but I don't know why we'd blame the vehicle here. Does judgement go out the window the second we buy a car that can do these things? I know for many it is. I prefer common sense, but I've been told that's on its way out.

We can't put 100% of the blame on the driver, sorry. Not everyone is stupid.

 

[Torrid]

We can't put 100% of the blame on the driver, sorry. Not everyone is stupid.

I'm not putting 100% on it, but it takes a special brand to trust this stuff, especially with all the warnings it gives. All I know is the vehicle is safe in a crash test and I don't do dumb things behind the wheel with my family in the car.

 

[demarpaint]

I'm not putting 100% on it, but it takes a special brand to trust this stuff, especially with all the warnings it gives.

It takes a special brand to trust the stuff and a special brand to defend it.

 

[Torrid]

It takes a special brand to trust the stuff and a special brand to defend it.

I don't know what you think I'm defending. I think FSD is trash and shouldn't be used.

 

[demarpaint]

I don't know what you think I'm defending. I think FSD is trash and shouldn't be used.

FTR- I'm not referring to you. You made it clear what you think of FSD. Lets leave it at that.

 

[tenderloin]

I have "driven" my sons X for hundreds of miles. Downtown San Diego, parking lot w/ auto parking. Hit a button the X backs out of a stall and comes to you. Freeway after freeway, changing lanes, speed control with zero problems. Did I always pay attention?No but for the most part I did. Great system but in traffic I always was ready to take over.

 

[Torrid]

I have "driven" my sons X for hundreds of miles. Downtown San Diego, parking lot w/ auto parking. Hit a button the X backs out of a stall and comes to you. Freeway after freeway, changing lanes, speed control with zero problems. Did I always pay attention?No but for the most part I did. Great system but in traffic I always was ready to take over.

I've just seen plenty of videos of Teslas hitting cars when pulling out of spots using Summon and FSD turning too tightly and curbing wheels. Obviously it's taking a calculated risk to use these systems and I'm not interested in continuing the experiment. It works until something goes wrong. My wife showed me the summon feature on her Model 3 and it's said that the car is limited to 5mph in summon. It got up to around 15mph and made a hard turn in the parking lot which was an issue because it was going fast enough that when letting off the summon command, it did not immediately stop. Of course the internet tells me I'm mistaken, that's wrong, and it can't do that. I guess my eyes lied to me that day.

I love the car, but the software has a lot of gimmicks I'm just not impressed with.

 

[Fair enough]

I'm just trying to make sense of how it got to that, because it has top marks in crash tests. There has to be another factor. You even cite you see the difference between bad drivers and normal drivers which has been my point. Many people point out they deal with more a-hole drivers in Teslas that other makes. That doesn't sound like much of a coincidence.

What do the top scores in crash tests mean, deaths? They crash vehicles into barriers, and an object hits from the side. They do a roll over test. It’s more to find structural flaws that stand out. If a car is going 80 mph, there isn’t a test I don’t think, for that. People go faster than that. Accelerating to 60 in 3 seconds, what is the point of admiring that? It’s a machine anyone can sit in the chair and press down on the forward pedal. What is this admiration? The person in the chair didn’t make the machine to take credit for it. They just sit in the chair.

 

[Torrid]

What do the top scores in crash tests mean, deaths? They crash vehicles into barriers, and an object hits from the side. They do a roll over test. It’s more to find structural flaws that stand out. If a car is going 80 mph, there isn’t a test I don’t think, for that. People go faster than that. Accelerating to 60 in 3 seconds, what is the point of admiring that? It’s a machine anyone can sit in the chair and press down on the forward pedal. What is this admiration? The person in the chair didn’t make the machine to take credit for it. They just sit in the chair.

It just rates how people are protected by the structure of the vehicle by deforming and absorbing force. It has nothing to do with the power the vehicle makes or actually hitting another vehicle. It's the vehicle VS barrier test that's been the standard since before I can remember. It doesn't account for Jim Bob in his 8 inch lifted F350 with truck nuts swinging off the bumper.

We should just all drive Panzers.

 

[gman2304]

Please forgive me but….I love these EV threads!

 

[demarpaint]

What do the top scores in crash tests mean, deaths? They crash vehicles into barriers, and an object hits from the side. They do a roll over test. It’s more to find structural flaws that stand out. If a car is going 80 mph, there isn’t a test I don’t think, for that. People go faster than that. Accelerating to 60 in 3 seconds, what is the point of admiring that? It’s a machine anyone can sit in the chair and press down on the forward pedal. What is this admiration? The person in the chair didn’t make the machine to take credit for it. They just sit in the chair.

Exactly! Only I didn't want to get into that one.

 

[ecotourist]

Seems there is a dichotomy of sorts - they have to drive fast but the bottle does not move - so how does one get up to speed - that was the basis of my joke …

The bottle only moves if you accelerate or brake a bit briskly. And it doesn't matter how fast you're going as long as you don't accelerate or brake.

So you accelerate or brake so gently that the bottle doesn't move. After a bunch of gentle accelerating you reach and then maintain a high speed and anticipate when you need to stop so you are able to brake gently enough so as not to move the bottle.

Doing all that would be quite a trick. They were (supposedly) looking for drivers who could do it. I have to say it would be rather nice sipping a martini in the back seat, and making great cross country time, while all this was going on.

Jackie Stewart comes to mind. He drove very gently (though perhaps not quite gently enough for this job) but also drove very fast. Fast enough for 3 world championships anyway.

 

[Trav]

Mine supposedly had a big bore kit; maybe closer to 1500 cc? I don't remember. A valve cover fell off the 1200 and the engine was damaged. Weird. A friend's friend had a sideline building VW engines; I got the 1500 for like $125 and my 1200. Drove that thing all over for next to nothing. Cheapo radial tires made it just about perfect! I ultimately sold it to the rebuilder for his wife a couple years later.

Great car. It would be fun to have today. You know, it sure felt faster than it was. One of the very best cars I have ever owned; it never let me down after I put the rebuilt engine in. I even put an 8-track in.
Today, traffic is much faster than it was in the early 70's, times are different.

Not really, back in those times traffic was much lighter, if anything traffic is slower today.