There's alot of stuff Elon says. Apparently there are some rumors that a large number of Tesla owners that were promised "full autonomous " vehicles in you know "In only two years" may be putting together a class action lawsuit. They need to ask for triple the price of their vehicle that they paid for reimbursement.
Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD)
- Thread starter Torrid
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In my dictionary "Full Self Driving" and "Beta" are mutually exclusive and are oxymoron. It is very hard to sue for damage if you can't prove what financial lost you got. If your car is not suddenly depreciate more because of some fault discovered in their designs, or if you didn't get hurt because you are stranded from self driving shutting down mid way and ask you to take over, or you need N times calling AAA to tow you back home, or miss days of work and get fired, you can't really prove losses and sue Tesla when FSD doesn't work. The fact that they put in requirements you have to put your hands on the steering means they can get out of most liability other than depreciation loss, because you still need to know how to drive.
Your lawyer probably will give up on you when you run out of funds before Tesla can prove that you don't lose money because they didn't deliver what they sold you.
I'm in engineering as well, and know all about testing. We test by machine and hand approx 10K pieces a month.
I do not agree a geofenced model equates to "testing", and a non geofenced model equates to not being tested.
Neither you nor I, nor anyone else can test for infinitely changing variables - like traffic, weather, changing roadwork, cones, and hazardous debris.
Part of reason many geofence is because they dont have the compute power to both analyze the surrounding road, moving traffic and control the car, so they cheat by removing the mapping part relying on something pre loaded, and that means the map is out of date the minute I publish it.
I'm not saying this feat is easy, it's incredibly difficult.
If I am paying a premium for the service I'd far rather have a system that can theoretically work anywhere than one where I'm severely limited to its use to best case 15% of possible places I could drive today.
It seems you are trying to make a case that under the hood, the two systems share the weakness of a defined fence.
In 6.7B miles of use, if there truly were hidden fences, people would be hitting them, but I just don't see evidence of that, not to say their aren't other problems, because there are.
I think Elon handled this completely wrong, and if I bought the car and feature upgrade under that promise Id be peeved.
That said he's the worlds richest mana and Im only a very modestly successful regular guy CEO and outside my industry, no one cares what I think.
That said I read the docs and what I sign and it's always been pretty clear what you are getting and what rules surround its use, and whether of not it is transferable to the next owner.
I go by what I read and sign vs what people say so I'm usually not surprise or disappointed.
All the criticism aside, their driving aid is pretty much the best one out there.
It's the classic conundrum of disliking the guy, vs the product his company (its not really his alone anymore )
I can shoot holes at the decisions and leadership of almost all car companies, but in the end I have to pick a product like everyone else.
My car has FSD (Supervised) which is assisted driving, per Tesla. Calling today's version FSD is incorrect, but I can see the confusion. It is named poorly.
No product or application can be tested 100%; you never know how a person will use it. I know all about software releases; no one can tell me what people will do. Live is the real test.
Humans have set a pretty low bar to safe driving.
No product or application can be tested 100%; you never know how a person will use it. I know all about software releases; no one can tell me what people will do. Live is the real test.
Humans have set a pretty low bar to safe driving.
Well except if you went to a high end steak restaurant and ordered a Wagyu filet and got a cube steak with gravy and onions. Hey might be the best cube steak on the planet but it's not Wagyu filet. If other companies started doing this it would be a major problem. Tesla does and owners shrug it off. When Musk promised "full autonomous " for all hardware 3 vehicles within two years and they can't be upgraded to the new hardware they should be bought back its that simple. Musk needs to realize his promises should mean something
Mine was dodging ice chunks in the road on the way home. I don't think previous versions did this. I wouldn't have noticed this if I hadn't missed seeing the first one. I would have just intervened before I got close to it.
The naming is a huge problem. It's caused way too much trust in the system. Even as good as I think it has gotten, it's not what people say it is.
I’ve noticed they’re slowly rebranding it into “Self-Driving” across the UI. It seems that since they’re ditching Autopilot instead of Autopilot and FSD eventually it’ll just be “Self-Driving” for all autonomous features.
Autopilot is another issue. They're getting rid of Autosteer so only traffic aware cruise control will be left below FSD. There's no reason to call it Autopilot without autosteer. Current cars that have it will keep it, but going forward Autopilot is dead.
All FSD references on my car do only say Self Driving now.
If someone is new to Tesla and/or not tech-savvy, I think the autonomous features and the way they are (not clearly) differentiated would be quite confusing.
Look at this screen… in the “Autopilot” page is Autosteer and FSD then immediately below that in the stats it’s called “Self-Driving” not FSD.
And then scroll way down on the same page and it contains settings related to Forward Collision Warning, Automatic Emergency Braking, etc. In my opinion those should be on the Safety page, not the Autopilot page?
I think simplifying the whole thing into “not autonomous driving” and “self-driving” for what’s currently FSD will clear that up.
But, removing “autosteer” from used vehicles in inventory is messy because if someone reads a review of a 2025 Model 3 on some website and it says it includes that, then they go buy a used one, and it doesn’t have it, they’re going to be upset.
I don't think they're removing Autosteer from existing cars, they're just not including it on new ones. That said, Autosteer is pretty bad. It tracks to lines in such a way that FSD processes differently. Properly laid burnout marks on the road going to the side of the road will get Autosteer to follow them right off the pavement. I've not experienced that at all with FSD.
All that said, I'm back out on FSD. It's still massively improved, but I won't pay for it going forward. It's the best its ever been but cruise control should be allowed to work in conjunction with it. With Autosteer it just holds the speed you set. There's no way to set a speed with FSD. It just swings between 1mph over and 10mph as it sees fit when driving depending on mode. 1mph over is too slow for me and 10mph over is a speeding ticket here. Back to Traffic Aware Cruise Control and steering myself like the stone ages. I think it's my specific driving locations because it's rare I hear anything like this from other users, but I do hear about it at times.
If only you could call a Robotaxi with Android. I might actually use it to get to the train station, because the buses are unreliable.
FSD tried to change lanes into a ditch for me last night. As good as it gets, it still has major failures when you least suspect.
I do not have any confidence left for FSD. I just unsubscribed. I caught it in plenty of time, but after it almost crashed into a semi when it slid last December, it's not being allowed a third strike.
I'll never recommend FSD to anyone again.
I do not have any confidence left for FSD. I just unsubscribed. I caught it in plenty of time, but after it almost crashed into a semi when it slid last December, it's not being allowed a third strike.
I'll never recommend FSD to anyone again.
To be honest I tried it again to day and it's fine. It's just irratic. I don't know if I'll continue to use it. What worries me is the people that are adamant about how great it is. They just haven't been bit or just are ignoring the issues. It's a great tool at times, but it has serious issues.
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This is my biggest issue with it. It works right up until it doesn't. At that point the driver may have been lulled into a false sense of complacency and may be unprepared to take control.
100%. I mostly use it be because the adaptive cruise is so dopey. I don't use it when I don’t feel like watching it like a hawk.
I prefer to stay in the middle lane with BlueCruise, it seems to work best that way. If you drive the right lane it tends to want to wander towards the exits. It doesn't work over 80MPH so around here it's best to stay out of the left lane if you're using it because people tend to be going 85-90, especially on the toll roads. Of course it only works on the freeway.
I'm interested to try the Comma.ai at some point.
I'm interested to try the Comma.ai at some point.
That's interesting to hear about Blue Cruise. I've always wondered about it. I've heard a lot about GM's Super Cruise, but Ford's system doesn't seem to be talked about much.
I hear a lot about Comma.ai. I don't know anything about it, but it was brought up a lot on Reddit when I posted about the problem I had and posted the video. I really don't like the idea of putting aftermarket driving equipment in my car, but I'm not completely opposed to it. My roads seem to really challenge FSD and at this point I'm starting to think I want to help improve it by using it. Traffic aware cruise control which is Tesla speak for adaptive cruise is just crap. If it worked fine I'd rather use that and steer. Apparently that's not an option for me because of how it randomly slams on the brakes.
My route to work is rough on ADAS features. It seems like roads that are 55mph and have a lot of curves and hills really break these systems. It has made my drive really frustrating.
