Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD)
- Thread starter Torrid
- Start date
FSD with all its faults is really the only non geofenced solution that performs.
Maybe benzes does Im unsure I dont see it stats, but Im relatively sure they man up and publish them.
Because the states and gov are too stupid to figure out what should be done about automation they sit back and simply get to choose to make judgement calls, vs. technically lead by publishing standards others can concretely follow.
Societally we're going to be in the situation where all these tools will be saving lives and property damage daily, but some % will still die leading to people wanting to stop the entire endeavor until its perfect which it will never be.
Even if its 100 to 1 people will still fight to stop all automation progress because of the 1 especially if governments or people feel negatively about that manufacturer and are happy to take the tool from everyone because of their likes and dislikes.
Maybe benzes does Im unsure I dont see it stats, but Im relatively sure they man up and publish them.
Because the states and gov are too stupid to figure out what should be done about automation they sit back and simply get to choose to make judgement calls, vs. technically lead by publishing standards others can concretely follow.
Societally we're going to be in the situation where all these tools will be saving lives and property damage daily, but some % will still die leading to people wanting to stop the entire endeavor until its perfect which it will never be.
Even if its 100 to 1 people will still fight to stop all automation progress because of the 1 especially if governments or people feel negatively about that manufacturer and are happy to take the tool from everyone because of their likes and dislikes.
Call me old school, but I don't trust any FSD solution claiming they are non-geofenced, they just aren't tested well and throw it out for people with faith. They are all IMO geo fenced but they just give you a false sense of safety that it is not geofenced. This is how Elon typically operates and I have to give him an Elon discount whenever he overpromise something especially safety related.
If you trust a 16 year old driving a semi right after he get his license then sure he is qualified. That's how much I trust a non geofence claim on FSD.
I think you need to see how much progress has been made. 2 years ago I'd agree with you. It actually works now. I can count on one hand how many interventions I've had in 250 miles now where I couldn't make it 2 miles without intervening before. My wife covered 800 miles in one day with nearly no interventions too. This is in areas where there aren't many Teslas. It finally works properly for my commute. The standard traffic aware cruise control is dopey. I'd rather use FSD than cruise at this point.
@PandaBear at least FSD does not drive drunk, with a hangover, sick, texting, arguing with the old lady, call into a heated work meeting, etc. I know you will agree Silicon Valley rush hour drivers have become flat-out crazy. It's bad. It's scary. Being better than human drivers is a pretty low hurdle...
How does it respond to stopped school busses? Railroad crossings, with or without crossing gates, when a train is approaching?
FSD School Crossing
You should see the drivers around here that zoom around school busses when they are loading and unloading kids.
Yeah but relying on assisted driving when tired is just as dangerous. If it doesn't,or does do something and has an accident we've already seen Tesla won't be held liable. This seems like a band-aid fix that Tesla owners will use. The scary thing is that Musk has now posted on X that you can "Text and drive" with the newest release, which is very illegal, but hey.... Only a few months ago a guy hit a deer while using fsd and it didn't stop for close to a mile.
I understand that.
If you dont trust it, dont buy it or use it. You are free to pay to get anyones premium driving aid you want, or if equipped ignore anyones system.
Im always ready to take over control from any driving aid from cruise control to auto steer and everything I use. I don't trust any of them, but like using them on long trips to reduce load.
It's simply not accurate to say FSD isn't tested, it has billions of miles of testing data to learn from and lean on.
Feel free to file an SEC claim about revenue recognition if you feel like you've been lied to, we know you arent an owner but maybe you are shareholder.
Not an Elon fan, but a fan of all American auto companies.
In the case of this feature it's probably the best available today.
You're way overthinking it. I don't use it around town though. I've tried it but I get impatient with its long stops at stop signs if I had a gripe about how it works. I literally use it on highways in conditions where I would use cruise. It just also happens to steer. I don't condone driving while tired, but with my work (lack of)schedule it happens at times. That's just nuts though, it a deer and just let the car keep going? That's a user issue. FSD isn't a free pass to play stupid. It's a driver assistance feature and should be treated as such. Even with traffic aware cruise control that SHOULD hit the brakes if a deer runs out in front of the car, I don't recommend anyone not intervene. I will disengage whatever feature I'm using to drive and take over and stop the car if necessary. I like the system because it may actually stop in this situation if I don't see it. It's like a double layer of protection. Anyone doing less than this is a disservice to themselves.
I also don't understand everyone's want to text and drive. The voice to text is some of the best I've ever seen built into the car. There's no way I'd even want to mess with my phone in the car, FSD or not.
Pay attention and intervene. As I said I always disengage for deer. I'm sure you disengage your cruise for deer. I hit a deer in my VW driving without using cruise while still accelerating because I never saw it. I don't know what you're trying to convince me of. I already said the exact same thing in my last comment. If you can't judge the situation step in when needed, that's operator error. we're not going to see unsupervised at the consumer level, nor do I think we should have it. There's no need to continue this.
There are something like 1.5M deer accidents yearly. Some of these are bad enough to kill the humans as well. I didn't know there was that many Teslas running around assinating deer...
I understand your point too. What I am trying to say though is that, fundamentally everything is a "prove it" geo fence on what scenario you have trained for. Going from one country to another and have to retake their driver license test is a type of geo fence. Engineer training and testing a car in a new type of places is a geo fence. The concept of "no geofence" in advertisement is really just a "we are not telling you where our geo fence is" in marketing.
I like the idea of FSD but it's a pretty hefty expense if you want to use it every day, not just for road trips. $8000 up front.
I do take the train to the office 60-70% of the time, which gets me most of the way there, then I have a short bus ride from the train station to the office. The problem lately has been the bus is unreliable in the evening. It used to come every 10 minutes on the dot and I had no problem making my train. But now the bus is on reduced service and if it came when it was supposed to, that wouldn't be an issue. However, it's completely unreliable and I have ended up missing my train a few times which makes for a very long commute. The sad thing is that the total distance I have to go on the bus to get to the train station is less than 2 miles and it's giving me issues.
Makes for easy negative commentary on the state of public transportation. I don't love driving to the office in traffic and am willing to use public transportation, but it's hard to even get the basics right, it seems.
However with a 7500 mi/yr lease and a 60 mile roundtrip commute, combined with being back in the office 5 days a week as of Nov 17th, I don't have a choice but to try to make it work as much as I can.
I would take the Lime scooters to the train station but they are so expensive for what they are. Usually around $8 for 1.7 miles. Ridiculous. I have considered buying an electric scooter, but the spate of cheap scooter fires gives me a little pause.
It's been cold pretty consistently since I got back from Brazil so I've been hesitant to use my bicycle to make the train to office leg, but the next couple of days it's supposed to be tolerable in the morning, you can read that as, around 50 or so. I will probably throw my bike in the back of my truck the next couple of days and make the last mile connection that way. There are bicycle hooks on the train.
It doesn't make sense to buy FSD up front. The $100 per month subscription is pretty reasonable in comparison, plus if they ever pulled the plug on transferring the $8k purchase, the subscription isn't tied to the car.
There's no backup public transportation here. We don't even have 24 hour cabs and the ones we do have are run by the city and wouldn't be allowed to go the 40 miles to my work 4 towns over. I actually don't mind driving myself if FSD wasn't an option. I'm just actually impressed by it and enjoy using it. I think as a monthly subscription it makes sense.
My driving is why I won't lease. 20k miles a year isn't out of the question for me. I couldn't lease a Tesla anyway. Tesla doesn't offer leases for the state of Wisconsin.
Yeah, I can see that about FSD. Paying 8000 up front would only make sense if you are planning to keep the vehicle way past 8 years. It's a great deal if you're planning to keep it 15 years as compared to the monthly fee, but, how many EV owners are doing that? These cars for the most part didn't exist 15 years ago. How long would Tesla truly support it with the hardware you drove off the lot with? Many owners with older Model S/X have had to upgrade their MCUs to get the latest features.
We all want the latest and greatest technology, longer ranges, faster charging, etc, so we're trading out more often. That is how I perceive things. That's why I started my EV journey with leasing.
That said....
If I end up doing this 60 mile round trip 5 days for a few years, it would probably make more sense to buy a cheap used EV to commute in and let my wife keep a more truck-ish EV at home where she's mostly driving shorter distances around the suburbs. I won't buy out my Lightning at $46K residual for sure. It won't be worth that at the end of the lease. I might buy out the Mach-E at $18K residual though. Won't be off lease until June 27 though, so we will most certainly evaluate the market at that point in time.
My wife and I are pretty much in agreement it would be very difficult to go back to a gas vehicle. Buy one lease one EV maybe. We'll see. There are still some great deals on leases, even without the tax credit.
We can prove what % the geofenced systems dont work on. About 85%
A couple should work on any (condition permitting) of the 4.2 million miles of roads, the best of the geofenced group on a claimed 600K miles of roads. Whats that 15 % at best?
Long week for me and Im slow ....Is your position the guys claiming not to be geofenced are lying?
or that they are somehow secretly geofenced , or that they dont perform on non geofenced roads and fake it? Or some other thing Im missing.
You always have good takes on things and I genuinely want to understand where you are on this.
Enjoyed FSD today, as usual.
-FSD avoided an Altima driver that decided to go into my lane with no warning and no turn signal.
-Flawless handling of a roundabout that was so new it wasn’t in map data yet. I’ve always been curious if FSD relied on map data to understand roundabouts, I guess not.
-Stopped for a large turkey in the road.
-FSD avoided an Altima driver that decided to go into my lane with no warning and no turn signal.
-Flawless handling of a roundabout that was so new it wasn’t in map data yet. I’ve always been curious if FSD relied on map data to understand roundabouts, I guess not.
-Stopped for a large turkey in the road.
My work is in engineering, not self driving not EV, but things not tested is always treated as things not working for a very good reason. So when they claim you can drive somewhere it is always because they have done the test and have the data to back them up, so they won't go to jail for negligence if someone die. Everyone does this or they will get into huge trouble. We had to fire people a couple times a year for safety violation at work.
So, when they say geo fence it is really more of a "yeah we are confident based on our testing this road works, this kind of road works", or they put inside the computer that if they are not confident just freeze and call for help. Every company calls it different things like geo-fence, or safety shutdown, or whatever takeover. In the end it is just a name and they all have to have test data to back things up.
What Elon did, is that he hid the real fence inside the FSD and not tell you he has one. He just tells you he has no geo-fence so you subconsciously think his products "always works" and is superior.
This is the same "magic" Steve Jobs did with OSX problem, instead of a blue screen he just leave a color wheel spinning till you got bored and power cycle the computer.
