Teen girls dress like hookers

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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I guess my point is that due to cheap credit, two parents working (more expendable income and less supervision), TV shows that publicize and flaunt the worst of the worst, entertainers (particularly rap people) who show the need for "bling" and bikini babes, etc., you have a group that can be influenced and yet live in a relative lap of luxury.


+1

I'm 29, married 10 years, 2 kids (5 y/o). My wife is a stay at home mom, and I am very thankful she enjoys that!

We've discussed the possibility of her maybe getting a part time job when the kids are in school. I thinks she'll come up with something then, maybe volunteering at the school. But it wouldn't be anything that requires they go to day care.

Its not very PC to mention these days, but working moms have consequences for the family.

BTW, I'm surprised (encouraged) at the responses from people in my age group.
 
I'm only 21, so I'm not very far ahead of the generation in question. In fact, I'm technically part of the same generation. Still, I'm disgusted by a lot of the stuff I see in the media and in our culture these days. When I was 12, VH1 was still showing Pop Up Video and such. The Real World on MTV was as bad as it got. Now, there is a saturation of the shows I described in my last post...a glorification of bad behavior combined with alcohol abuse and a lack of responsibility. It's crazy.

I'm not even socially conservative by any stretch of the imagination. Anyone who read Michael's marijuana ride thread can tell that much. The fact that I'm appalled by this stuff says a lot.
 
Your children will generally adopt the values that they see you live ..not what you tell them is virtuous. While it has happened, it's unlikely that you'll get your child to "upgrade themselves" from how they perceive your true conduct in, and disposition toward, life.

The more successful you are in "being defective" ..the more they'll see no point to being anything better. "It worked for dad. He cheated, lied, manipulated, conned ..etc..etc..etc. ..and it worked for him while he left me to figure most of this out on my own"
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Most parents don't have close relationships with their children. They're superficial and their children are "managed". It's not a full time commitment. It's what you do "when you have time".
 
Gary,

That's one of your better posts. I'm not sure how you did it, but I was able to follow along and not glaze over with the analogies and "speaking in tongues".
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BTW, I also agree.
 
Tell me about it. I've made a few acquaintances during my time at Hollister, but I absolutely HATED how fake and extremely liberal most of the kids there were.

I can't even drive an Accord EX-L V6, Odyssey, Pilot or RidgeLine at work without thinking of Hollister.
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Originally Posted By: nthach
Tell me about it. I've made a few acquaintances during my time at Hollister, but I absolutely HATED how fake and extremely liberal most of the kids there were.


Bound to happen when you get all of your information from MTV and CNN.
 
Originally Posted By: Reginald
A few thoughts in no particular order, written by a middle-aged father of grown daughters:


Now, to the extent that it's happening, the sexualization of young teenagers and even pre-teens is just plain creepy and disturbing. But even in these times, a 12- or 13-year-old isn't much more than the product of the influence or neglect of grownups.


Well written for the entire 6 points.
Thanks for a touch of sanity in this thread.
 
Everything now has to have a sexual twist or under tone. All the shows have to talk about it or show it. Bad language is common. Gay characters are popping up on almost every show, dating shows with the same sexes.....the list is enormous.
Quality shows like Mayberry, I love Lucy, Gunsmoke etc are history. I and my children still love to watch them because they are clean and have good character development. Even "kids" movies many times have sexual references or language that is not needed!

Hollywood and liberal media wants to warp our and our children's minds into believing everything is O.k. They do this by subtle changes that keep building over time so we become used to it.

I hate most T.V. I wish I could ala carte my channels. I would have very few.

It is hard to fight the influence of the media when the kids are bombarded with it from T.V and the Internet.
 
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I would have Speed Channel, Discovery, TLC and the news... That's all I need. Oh and the weather channel for those nights I can't sleep
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And this is what causes me worry about my daughter being raised by my unfaithful former wife.

This is why I've advocated that infidelity is a primary reason to deem one an unfit parent. If someone is not willing or able to keep his/her word to their spouse, what makes society think they are a good role model.

However, the courts believe (wrongly) that it's usually always in the best interest of the child to be with the parent with whom they've spent the most time. There is little if any examination to see if that parent is defective.

Of course we are all defective. The question is merely are our defects serious enough to warrant concern.

Apparently breaking ones vows, lying, cheating, bringing a strange man who is willing to break his vows into the family is not reason enough to cause concern.

It's interesting. Most children are not molested and/or abused by their fathers or family, but by some stranger who mom has brought into the family.

Yet courts don't seem to be concerned about the fact that the majority of divorces are brought by women who have no grounds other than they don't feel like they are loved by their husbands. These women are not abused, they are not betrayed. They simply don't get to live out the MTV or daytime drama, bodice busting novel, or fill in the media model that applies.

So the cycle continues.

It's not just MTV, there are all sorts of media sources that set up both unrealistic expectations and unhealthy role models for both men and women.

Society is pretty much on top of the ones that are bad role models for men, such as porn. But there isn't the same type of concern about the emotional porn being offered to women each day. Things that I believe are just as destructive.

I for one am sick of the double standard.

Men are called dogs, but the last time I checked, if a man is cheating, there is a woman right there willing to go along with it. Where is the outrage for her actions?

There is none. Or it's excused. She's called naive, or manipulated, or whatever excuse is offered on her behalf.

Sorry, the excuses don't fly.

And these folks are raising children while wholesome dads are kept out of the child's life simply because he had the nerve to work and earn enough so that mom could stay home and decide she was bored and wanted something different.

I'm not talking about dads who were never home, but dads who worked and took the kids to soccer, or volleyball or even to doctor visits, etc.

The church doesn't get off either. They are more concerned about gay marriage, which impacts probably 1% of the population, but have given up when it comes to fighting no fault divorce. Often, the church is right there with the rest of society, blaming men for the break up of the family.

Well, I don't buy it, since as I've said before, 2/3rds to 3/4s of divorces are filed by women, and in all divorce actions, only about 6% actually are victims of abuse or betrayal. The remaining decisions to divorce are due to no longer wanting to be married.

Yet it appears the church is more concerned about gay marriage, which is a far smaller population than the nearly 50% of couples in their own congregations that are breaking up in this fashion.

So basically, my rant is it appears society really doesn't care about the family. It's all about whatever makes me happy, who cares what the costs may be.

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Your children will generally adopt the values that they see you live ..not what you tell them is virtuous. While it has happened, it's unlikely that you'll get your child to "upgrade themselves" from how they perceive your true conduct in, and disposition toward, life.

The more successful you are in "being defective" ..the more they'll see no point to being anything better. "It worked for dad. He cheated, lied, manipulated, conned ..etc..etc..etc. ..and it worked for him while he left me to figure most of this out on my own"
21.gif


Most parents don't have close relationships with their children. They're superficial and their children are "managed". It's not a full time commitment. It's what you do "when you have time".
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour




So basically, my rant is it appears society really doesn't care about the family. It's all about whatever makes me happy, who cares what the costs may be.






I could not agree with you more. let me give you an insight as to my 15 year old step daughter. I met my wife after she was divorced raising two kids. son was 6 daughter was 4 at the time. I have been with my wife and kids( we married after being together for 6 years ) I had gone into this relationship knowing that I was marrying my wife and the kids as well. things were pretty good until 2 years ago when our daughter started to get mouthy and show me no respect. she would not listen to anything I said and gave me attitude. she is only worried about herself and does not care about anybody else. at this point I gave her her space figuring it was a teen thing. my wife has talked to her many times and we ended up getting her to agree to therapy a month ago. all this time her actual dad was not really in her life and I was there for all of the school functions, birthdays, rides as well as if she fell and scraped her knee etc. the therapist feels that our daughter is holding resentment for her Dad not being there but taking it out on me. we tried taking things away and it did not do anything. after a big fight on Xmas she went to her Dad's for a cooling off period. soon after being there for a couple of days, she got worse and her tone became very negative towards my wife and I. in our last conversation with her on the phone she said she is willing to change schools and leave our house because her Dad give her everything she wants ( material stuff ) he said she is 15 , she is an adult, she can wear what she wants, talk to who she wants and do what she wants. we have never told what she can wear and she was called to principles office last year for looking goofy ( socks pulled over jeans that are brightly colored and not matching ) she was told she did not break any dress codes but she looked ridiculous. seems like she wants to be treated as an adult when it comes her life , except when it is not fun .my wife and I are are crushed beyond belief that this has happened. my wife carried her in her for 9 months and been there for every part of her life for the whole 15 years. hard to believe that she can sell us out so easily. my wife btw is pretty much a stay at home Mom and we have sacrificed our own lives to put our kids ahead of us. we have sacrificed a lot of out time to make sure we are there for them. what really hurt is she said that she does not like me calling her my daughter and she does not look up to me ........ looks like my 10 years of being there for her though thick and thin meant little as she said she has forgiven her dad for all of the times he was not there...... because her bought her love. is there not respect or love , let alone appreciation for your parents anymore ? I would never had done this to my Mom or Dad or any other relative for that matter. my wife and I are caring people and we remember and respect our parents. we will be there for them as they grow old and will not put them in a nursing home. sorry for the long rant here but this subject really hit home with me. this has been a terrible holiday season and I can not believe how quickly we were betrayed.up until 2 years ago my daughter and I had a great relationship and she was a great kid. I feel though outside influences ( tv and her friends ) this teen girl does not respect authority and would rather give up her parents to be raised by somebody who is more of a friend than a parent. I want to be a a good friend and have tried to be to my kids. feel my son and I have that ( he is 17) but they must not forget that you are a parent and they need to show you respect.
 
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Originally Posted By: GMGuy
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but nothing like what I see or hear about today. I also think the schools were a little more strict back then.


Don't forget, the kid has rights! (said with sarcasm)

Cross the wrong one and you may be facing dispilinary action yourself for whatever they can come up with. The school system in general is a mine field of dancing between what should be done and avoiding irate parents becuase you infringed on precious little ones rights. Real or imagined. That applies to everything from not passing Little dumb-bottom, to trying to break up a fight.

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corrupting kids via MTV and Disney Channel. It's more than [censored] music. I'm 23 for the record.


Sometime last year MTV showed up here in Canada. I tell ya, the programming on their was an eye opener. What I really got [censored] off with was not so much the dress like a hooker, but the [censored] poor attitude when it came to things in general. Destroy something? Who cares. Break something? Who cares. Take something from somebody? Who cares... etc.

Alex.


So true about kids rights!!!!!!!!! Years ago if I got out of line it was quickly met with a swift kick in the A.....ss by my father. Try that today!

We have a friend whose kid was messing up in school, typical 15 year old boy. A lot of tension going on in the house. Long story short the father said to the kid next time you mess up in school your in for a good beating, or something along those lines. Next day the kid tells the teacher because he failed a test that needed to be signed by his parents his father was going to beat him. Child welfare services got involved and went to the parents home. These are good middle class Americans BTW.

Hitting children is not a good idea, however punishment and drawing a line early in life goes a long way later on. I see it all the time with kids, they're rewarded for bad behavior early on, then later in life the parents wonder what went wrong. Expose them to the [censored] they see on TV at a young age and watch what that seed grows into...........
 
Matrass,

I feel your pain. Luckily, my wife and I had a much easier time with her daughter- and her dad never really wanted her to stay there- it would have cramped her lifestyle. At this point, I think you either have to win a legal battle so that she cannot go to dad's to live (which will create resentment and make life more difficult) or let her go and pray for the best (which may turn out better than expected when she realizes dad cannot simply buy her everything forever). Regardless, I will pray for you and your family.

Javacontour- I completely agree. That is why my church is currently doing family health topics and programs. My community has predominately broken families (not one person in our church family has not been personally touched by divorce- either parents, self, spouse). In addition, most of our children have behavioral problems. Helping parents learn how to parent is one of my biggest goals in life. I find that if parent's will learn the right techniques then the children will do much better. I don't simply teach either, I have helped (with my wife) raise over 20 teens with "issues" and only one has not done significantly better.

ref
 
Quote:
So true about kids rights!!!!!!!!! Years ago if I got out of line it was quickly met with a swift kick in the A.....ss by my father. Try that today!

We have a friend whose kid was messing up in school, typical 15 year old boy. A lot of tension going on in the house. Long story short the father said to the kid next time you mess up in school your in for a good beating, or something along those lines. Next day the kid tells the teacher because he failed a test that needed to be signed by his parents his father was going to beat him. Child welfare services got involved and went to the parents home. These are good middle class Americans BTW.

You make a great point there. I had the same thing happen, I did something wrong, and it was a spanking. It helps you learn quickly in my opinion. But when the school system quit allowing teachers to discipline physically (such as slaps on the wrist, grabbing the kid's ears, etc.), that's when the teachers would start saying how if the parents are beating you then they need to tell the teacher/principle.

I do believe that's why there's less spanking, especially in public, nowadays, because if the kid just says the parent hits them, even if it's unabusive, then the parents can get a visit from child services.

I hate this f***ing wussification of America...
 
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Everything now has to have a sexual twist or under tone. All the shows have to talk about it or show it. Bad language is common. Gay characters are popping up on almost every show, dating shows with the same sexes.....the list is enormous.
Quality shows like Mayberry, I love Lucy, Gunsmoke etc are history. I and my children still love to watch them because they are clean and have good character development. Even "kids" movies many times have sexual references or language that is not needed!

Hollywood and liberal media wants to warp our and our children's minds into believing everything is O.k. They do this by subtle changes that keep building over time so we become used to it.

I hate most T.V. I wish I could ala carte my channels. I would have very few.

It is hard to fight the influence of the media when the kids are bombarded with it from T.V and the Internet.

Gays are not the ones dressing young girls in skimpy hooker gear or breaking up families. Make no mistake, this is a problem with our entire society.
 
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: Reginald

3) You do realize, don't you, that any link between attire and sexuality is artificial and socially constructed? In other words, clothing is neither inherently sexy nor inherently demure. In some times and places, clothing that shows a lot of cleavage has been considered provocative; in other times and places, the same amount of cleavage wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. A tight, slinky dress is the sign of sophisticated high fashion in one time and place, and the mark of a tramp in another. Polynesian women went bare-breasted, and Polynesian men didn't think less of them for it. So an outfit that you think is cheap and sluttish may well have an entirely different meaning to the young person wearing it. I teach at a community college. Many young women come to class wearing push-up bras, blouses with plunging necklines, and skin-tight jeans, short skirts, or gym shorts. Then they write essays arguing for the importance of sexual abstinence until marriage. I'm not kidding. I can only conclude that they and I have entirely different interpretations of those bras and blouses.


I don't buy this one. Sure clothing itself is amoral but it is still not good for the person. Clothing that leaves nothing to the imagination is the same in every setting (sophisticated, slums, bedroom, etc.) whether appropriate or not. When it is appropriate needs to be defined & followed. It appears that many define appropriate differently that I do.

If you believe that clothing has a different meaning to those girls wearing it, then naivety abounds.


The definition of "appropriate" is always relative and socially constructed. In the summertime, my wife can wear a knee-length skirt and sleeveless blouse to her office job and nobody gives her a second glance. Her attire is perfectly appropriate--in this culture. In certain other countries, she could be arrested, beaten, or worse if she left the house in clothing that revealed her calves and arms. Clothing means what people agree it means.

Here's a secret about many teenagers. They know what their clothing means to older people. And sometimes that's why they wear it.

If you want something serious to worry about, spend thirty hours a week talking and listening to 18- and 19-year olds, and another twenty reading their writing. You'll learn that not only are many (perhaps most) of them stunningly ignorant about almost everything, but also that they're quite happy to be ignorant. But here, too, the kids are merely following instructions. Since birth, they've been taught that money, possessions, and fame are the only important goals in life. Young people are perfectly trained consumers. In the short term, they're also profitable consumers. Business can't have a better customer than one who defines him- or herself entirely through possessions.
 
Originally Posted By: refaller
Matrass,

I feel your pain. Luckily, my wife and I had a much easier time with her daughter- and her dad never really wanted her to stay there- it would have cramped her lifestyle. At this point, I think you either have to win a legal battle so that she cannot go to dad's to live (which will create resentment and make life more difficult) or let her go and pray for the best (which may turn out better than expected when she realizes dad cannot simply buy her everything forever). Regardless, I will pray for you and your family.





refaller ,

Thank you for the kind words and understanding. our daughter's Dad did not really want her as he told us she would hamper his lifestyle. he was content with her staying there for the weekend once or twice a month. my wife and I have talked to her therapist and we all agree that she is better off with us but if she wants to stay with him, then we can not make her come back. seems like the longer she is with her Dad the more tainted and cold she has become to us. been really hard on my wife as she can not sand the thought of being without her daughter. we know if she stays there we will not see her except for maybe the holidays. the sad part is this guy thinks he is here to save the day and look like the knight on the white horse. in reality this whole situation was caused by him being selfish and not being a part of his kids life. my thoughts are that she feels guilty that her and I were like father and daughter and wondered why her Dad did not want her love. I know she will realize that her Dad is not really there to help her but worry that time will only deepen the resentment of how she betrayed us. I have given 100% of my love and devotion to this person ( as I would my own flesh and blood )hurts like [censored] that she can not at least show me the respect that I have earned. it is sad that she takes no responsibilities for any of her actions.... that is so common with teens these days. we have tried over and over to talk to her and keep an open line of communication but she has been attempting to divide me and my wife.maybe the fact that my wife stood by my side is what made her realize that our marriage is very solid and she can not just control the household. glad to hear that you are helping families get through their problems.your prayers are very welcome by my wife and I at this very difficult stage in our lives. never could have imagined that we would lose our daughter ( insert 2 broken hearts here ) thanks again for listening
 
About twenty years ago the LA Times had an article for people moving into the area, this was around the time of the last financial meltdown on the east coast, and they cautioned that the lady that looked like a hooker was almost certainly just a normally dressed mom. The teens and many women in the malls in San Diego back then looked the same.
 
At least gays keep to themselves. I have no problem with gays, and not to derail or lock this thread, but I think the whole "gay rights" movement is drawing negative attention to the gay/[censored] community. And people like Perez Hilton and Rosie O'Donnell aren't helping their cause, and neither are the protests against Prop 8. in the Castro and Hollywood.
 
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