Talk Some Sense into an Oil Thickie?

[OVERKILL]

Just referring to the very informative post by Himemsys re 0w-20 oils, on this site, the KV100 can range from 8.80 down to 7.89. That's a big difference 2 me. I prefer the thicker 8.8 to the thinner 7.89, don't you?

It can range wider than that.

 

[PimTac]

It also seems that density is getting confused with viscosity in this discussion.

 

[edhackett]

It can range wider than that.
View attachment 108570

The minimum viscosity of the 20 grade is wrong in this chart. It is 6.9. 5.6 is an out of date value.

Ed

 

[ZeeOSix]

The HTHS viscosity of 3.5 cP is different in the 0W, 5W and 10W-40 grades also.

 

[OVERKILL]

The minimum viscosity of the 20 grade is wrong in this chart. It is 6.9. 5.6 is an out of date value.

Ed

Yes, looks like it wasn't updated.

 

[kschachn]

Lol. I'm just reporting my actual observations re the 2 oils I ran. Nothing more. Did not intend to confuse you.

But as is always the case, observations are the easy part. It’s drawing proper conclusions that’s the difficult bit.

 

[BigTimeTA]

As of right now I'm planning to find a fully synthetic SP rated 0W-30, with the highest HTHS and lowest NOACK numbers I can find. Am I crazy?

I wouldn't worry about filling in a 0W40. Under extreme pressure and elevated temperatures the oil will run through temporary shear. Eventually you need HTHS > 2.9 during HTFS. 0W40 or the slightly more shear stable 5W40 are lingering at this borderline better than 2.2-2.6 for 0w30 or 5W30.

 

[FZ1]

But as is always the case, observations are the easy part. It’s drawing proper conclusions that’s the difficult bit.

Well, excuse me, but My Actual Observation and My conclusion that the PUP runs "thicker" than the AFE in My Camry Is what it is. Now, if You want to Actually run these 2 oils back to back as did I, You can report Your Actual Observation and Conclusion.

 

[kschachn]

Well, excuse me, but My Actual Observation and My conclusion that the PUP runs "thicker" than the AFE in My Camry Is what it is. Now, if You want to Actually run these 2 oils back to back as did I, You can report Your Actual Observation and Conclusion.

Exactly.

 

[02zx9r rev2]

Well, excuse me, but My Actual Observation and My conclusion that the PUP runs "thicker" than the AFE in My Camry Is what it is. Now, if You want to Actually run these 2 oils back to back as did I, You can report Your Actual Observation and Conclusion.

I would like to see that

 

[TiGeo]

But as is always the case, observations are the easy part. It’s drawing proper conclusions that’s the difficult bit.

I'd say the observations are the hard part here - how do you quantify "runs smoother" etc.?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Well, excuse me, but My Actual Observation and My conclusion that the PUP runs "thicker" than the AFE in My Camry Is what it is. Now, if You want to Actually run these 2 oils back to back as did I, You can report Your Actual Observation and Conclusion.

Are you saying you think it runs "thicker" because the engine sounds quieter? Sound isn't necessarily a measure of viscosity.

 

[ZeeOSix]

This study showed a measured sound differennce between oil formulations.

Study on Engine Noise Level vs Oil Formulation

Thought this was somewhat interesting, especially the engine noise level vs oil formulation used data. We've all seen various threads where people say they can hear an engine noise level difference with different oils, and some say it's "all in their head" or "their ears aren't sensitive enough...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[FZ1]

Are you saying you think it runs "thicker" because the engine sounds quieter? Sound isn't necessarily a measure of viscosity.

It's more quiet, more smooth, and, when the trans downshifts, the difference is dramatic. I was quite surprised at the difference ,so, I looked up the oil specs for the 2 oils. Whaddya know? The PUP 0w-20 is thicker than the AFE 0W-20. Density PUP 83.9 AFE 83.8....Pour point PUP -48...AFE -51, KV100 the same at 8.8. So the specs seem to support my observations.

 

[OVERKILL]

It's more quiet, more smooth, and, when the trans downshifts, the difference is dramatic. I was quite surprised at the difference ,so, I looked up the oil specs for the 2 oils. Whaddya know? The PUP 0w-20 is thicker than the AFE 0W-20. Density PUP 83.9 AFE 83.8....Pour point PUP -48...AFE -51, KV100 the same at 8.8. So the specs seem to support my observations.

The specs support the oils being nary identical, the total opposite of what you are concluding here.

 

[wemay]

It's like throwing a lawn chair off the Titanic and claiming you know this happened because the the water level dropped. @FZ1 , i don't doubt you felt something different but i'm not sure it has anything to do with differences mentioned.

 

[PimTac]

It's more quiet, more smooth, and, when the trans downshifts, the difference is dramatic. I was quite surprised at the difference ,so, I looked up the oil specs for the 2 oils. Whaddya know? The PUP 0w-20 is thicker than the AFE 0W-20. Density PUP 83.9 AFE 83.8....Pour point PUP -48...AFE -51, KV100 the same at 8.8. So the specs seem to support my observations.

Where are you getting those density numbers?

For comparison, Valvoline EP 0W-20 has a density of 0.844.

Assuming that your decimal is misplaced, there is absolutely no way you can tell the difference between those two oils.

 

[wpod]

Would it just take longer, but get there all the same?

Maybe if the temps are well below the w rating on the oil.

 

[ZeeOSix]

It's more quiet, more smooth, and, when the trans downshifts, the difference is dramatic. I was quite surprised at the difference ,so, I looked up the oil specs for the 2 oils. Whaddya know? The PUP 0w-20 is thicker than the AFE 0W-20. Density PUP 83.9 AFE 83.8....Pour point PUP -48...AFE -51, KV100 the same at 8.8. So the specs seem to support my observations.

The density number is at room temperature. The KV100 (the kinematic viscosity at 100C) is the same for both oils. The KV100 is what defines the viscosity in an engine at operating temperature ... not the room temperature density.

 

[FZ1]

Where are you getting those density numbers?

For comparison, Valvoline EP 0W-20 has a density of 0.844.

Assuming that your decimal is misplaced, there is absolutely no way you can tell the difference between those two oils.

Curious, are you stating that you have, never, noticed, any, noise, vibration, or smoothness difference in any oil you have ever tried?