Synthetic oil nonsense

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Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Jim


I sure hope what they said is not true because I just bought a case of Redline 20W50 oil.


Mercy HD is still recommending a 50wt??? Red Line 20W 50 has a start up viscosity of 139 and a running viscosity of 19...


What's a 50wt? Oils aren't measured in weights,they are grades,so when you write up all them big words about branches and stuff it might help you're credibility if you used the proper terminology. Im no expert I'm Just sayin......
For what its worth I use a 40 grade in my Harley. Rotella conventional. If it can handle the heat of a twin turbo diesel pulling 80000 pounds it can handle the heat from my lil 106.


Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Both Dino and Synthetics Oils are made up of giant molecules
called polymers. Some are natural like mineral (Dino) oil,
others man-made like PAO. Dino and Synthetics polymers have
different shapes. Namely the molecules of mineral oil have a lot
of side branches, whereas the molecules of synthetic oil are
smoother and less "branchy." so technically speaking synthetics
flow easier than Dino but the polymers are not thinner or
thicker than Dino... however some still view synthetics with suspicion
and point to them as culprit to a whole host of problems...
 
Originally Posted By: fpracha
Originally Posted By: Jim

I am still puzzled as to why there would be more noise with synthetics. I have heard this said quite often on the Harley forum. It's strange since the high temperature viscosity is better.
It is due to the better flow properties of synthetics, while the normal engine noise is always the same, but dino oil dampens the sound a bit more than synthetics.


Not all synthetics contribute to more noise. My Harley sounded broken using Amsoil 20w-50 v-twin,m1 20w-50 v-twin and m1 15w-50.
Red line 20w-50,royal purple 20w-50 both automotive oils contributed to much less noise on my bike as well as motul 20w-50 and 10w-60 bike oils. Rotella 15w-40(currently in sump and primary) and PYB 20w-50 are also quiet in operation. Amsoil's straight 60 was less noisy than the 20w-50 but more noisy than the others I listed.
Just my experience using many different lubes in my Harley.
 
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Jim


I sure hope what they said is not true because I just bought a case of Redline 20W50 oil.


Mercy HD is still recommending a 50wt??? Red Line 20W 50 has a start up viscosity of 139 and a running viscosity of 19...


Lot of makes still spec xW-50 weight oils. They work well in air and oil cooled bike engines, especially for those of us who endure hot summers. You should not be shocked by this.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Jim


I sure hope what they said is not true because I just bought a case of Redline 20W50 oil.


Mercy HD is still recommending a 50wt??? Red Line 20W 50 has a start up viscosity of 139 and a running viscosity of 19...


What's a 50wt? Oils aren't measured in weights,they are grades,so when you write up all them big words about branches and stuff it might help you're credibility if you used the proper terminology. Im no expert I'm Just sayin......
For what its worth I use a 40 grade in my Harley. Rotella conventional. If it can handle the heat of a twin turbo diesel pulling 80000 pounds it can handle the heat from my lil 106.


Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Both Dino and Synthetics Oils are made up of giant molecules
called polymers. Some are natural like mineral (Dino) oil,
others man-made like PAO. Dino and Synthetics polymers have
different shapes. Namely the molecules of mineral oil have a lot
of side branches, whereas the molecules of synthetic oil are
smoother and less "branchy." so technically speaking synthetics
flow easier than Dino but the polymers are not thinner or
thicker than Dino... however some still view synthetics with suspicion
and point to them as culprit to a whole host of problems...





same can be said for spelling and grammar..... just sayin'......
smile.gif
 
Your 106 is air (and oil?) cooled, right? I'm not sure that's a valid comparison you're making. As long as your cooling system is working properly in that truck then the oil may or may not see temperatures higher than in my little 1.5 liter 1NZ-FE. Or my 1MZ-FE for that matter.

Originally Posted By: Clevy
For what its worth I use a 40 grade in my Harley. Rotella conventional. If it can handle the heat of a twin turbo diesel pulling 80000 pounds it can handle the heat from my lil 106.
 
No, you shouldn't be. But isn't any air-cooled engine a poster child for a quality synthetic oil?

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Lot of makes still spec xW-50 weight oils. They work well in air and oil cooled bike engines, especially for those of us who endure hot summers. You should not be shocked by this.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Jim


I sure hope what they said is not true because I just bought a case of Redline 20W50 oil.


Mercy HD is still recommending a 50wt??? Red Line 20W 50 has a start up viscosity of 139 and a running viscosity of 19...


What's a 50wt? Oils aren't measured in weights,they are grades,so when you write up all them big words about branches and stuff it might help you're credibility if you used the proper terminology. Im no expert I'm Just sayin......
For what its worth I use a 40 grade in my Harley. Rotella conventional. If it can handle the heat of a twin turbo diesel pulling 80000 pounds it can handle the heat from my lil 106.


Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Both Dino and Synthetics Oils are made up of giant molecules
called polymers. Some are natural like mineral (Dino) oil,
others man-made like PAO. Dino and Synthetics polymers have
different shapes. Namely the molecules of mineral oil have a lot
of side branches, whereas the molecules of synthetic oil are
smoother and less "branchy." so technically speaking synthetics
flow easier than Dino but the polymers are not thinner or
thicker than Dino... however some still view synthetics with suspicion
and point to them as culprit to a whole host of problems...



Does the bike have a radiator and thermostat? Every summer I see a few Howleys locked up from overheating. THAT can't be good for the oil.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
No, you shouldn't be. But isn't any air-cooled engine a poster child for a quality synthetic oil?

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Lot of makes still spec xW-50 weight oils. They work well in air and oil cooled bike engines, especially for those of us who endure hot summers. You should not be shocked by this.



Triumph actually requires semi synthetic or full synthetic in the owners manual.
 
Quote:
Triumph actually requires semi synthetic or full synthetic in the owners manual.


So what do they require in the engine?
laugh.gif


sorry,, I couldn't resist.
 
Originally Posted By: FowVay
Quote:
Triumph actually requires semi synthetic or full synthetic in the owners manual.


So what do they require in the engine?
laugh.gif


sorry,, I couldn't resist.


Nice one sir.
 
Quote:
Mercy HD is still recommending a 50wt??? Red Line 20W 50 has a start up viscosity of 139 and a running viscosity of 19...


No, they recommend a 20w-50 oil. Another words, it's a 20 grade oil that provides the characteristics of a 50 grade at operating temperature. If you want a 50 grade oil, buy a straight grade oil!
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Robenstein


Lot of makes still spec xW-50 weight oils. They work well in air and oil cooled bike engines, especially for those of us who endure hot summers. You should not be shocked by this.


I'm asking if the official manual only specs a 50??? because if owners want to lower their
engine's over all operating temps they run a more free flowing (less drag) oil such as a 30
or 40... increase the flow and the engine works less to overcome drag and the more heat is
exchanged with the air...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Robenstein


Lot of makes still spec xW-50 weight oils. They work well in air and oil cooled bike engines, especially for those of us who endure hot summers. You should not be shocked by this.


I'm asking if the official manual only specs a 50??? because if owners want to lower their
engine's over all operating temps they run a more free flowing (less drag) oil such as a 30
or 40... increase the flow and the engine works less to overcome drag and the more heat is
exchanged with the air...


It says you can run a 10w40 as well(but is highly reccomends a 50wt, even naming Castrol 4t 10w50 in the manual and Mobil 15w50 in years before that), but the overall experience of many who ride these air/oil cooled twins in hot climates is that it shears too thin and in the heat at idle can result in the low pressure light coming on. The shifting also suffers in quality. Almost every dealership and performance place recommend using a 50 weight oil.

When I wanted my bike to run cooler I just took off the secondary air injection system.
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein


It says you can run a 10w40 as well(but is highly reccomends a 50wt, even naming Castrol 4t 10w50 in the manual and Mobil 15w50 in years before that), but the overall experience of many who ride these air/oil cooled twins in hot climates is that it shears too thin and in the heat at idle can result in the low pressure light coming on. The shifting also suffers in quality. Almost every dealership and performance place recommend using a 50 weight oil.


So the official manual signed off by the HD engineers is suspect??? Has any owner ever
experienced engine damage due to oil shearing???
 
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Robenstein


It says you can run a 10w40 as well(but is highly reccomends a 50wt, even naming Castrol 4t 10w50 in the manual and Mobil 15w50 in years before that), but the overall experience of many who ride these air/oil cooled twins in hot climates is that it shears too thin and in the heat at idle can result in the low pressure light coming on. The shifting also suffers in quality. Almost every dealership and performance place recommend using a 50 weight oil.


So the official manual signed off by the HD engineers is suspect??? Has any owner ever
experienced engine damage due to oil shearing???


I don't have a Harley, I have a Triumph. And no, in cooler climates I imagine the 10w40 is just fine. Harley also mentions that one can use a 40wt in emergency top off situations or cold weather. In high performance and higher temperatures, the 10w40 just does not hold up for several Trumpet owners. Some using Rotella, a favorite alternative to 10w40 bike oils have experienced the same, especially with the 5w40 T6 Rotella in our 790/865cc engines. My Speedmaster shredded the 10w50 Castrol in under 2k miles. Since going to a 20w50, I have had less noise, better shifting(and for longer) and since removing the secondary air injection, a cooler running motor. As for any damage, well I am sure if they Triumph riders on the forum I saw idled their engines long enough with the light on, they could have very well caused excess wear which to me is damage enough even if the engine doesn't die for x amount of miles down the road.
 
Last edited:
I took the rocker cover off and replaced the gasket myself. It only took about 2 hours. The new rubber seal looked quite a bit thicker than the one I removed.
I could almost not believe how clean the inside of the engine is. It almost looks like someone has polished it clean.
I was using Schaeffers 7000 series for the first 5000 miles and Redline for the last 3000 miles.
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein

I don't have a Harley, I have a Triumph. And no, in cooler climates I imagine the 10w40 is just fine. Harley also mentions that one can use a 40wt in emergency top off situations or cold weather. In high performance and higher temperatures, the 10w40 just does not hold up for several Trumpet owners. Some using Rotella, a favorite alternative to 10w40 bike oils have experienced the same, especially with the 5w40 T6 Rotella in our 790/865cc engines. My Speedmaster shredded the 10w50 Castrol in under 2k miles. Since going to a 20w50, I have had less noise, better shifting(and for longer) and since removing the secondary air injection, a cooler running motor. As for any damage, well I am sure if they Triumph riders on the forum I saw idled their engines long enough with the light on, they could have very well caused excess wear which to me is damage enough even if the engine doesn't die for x amount of miles down the road.


Triumph doesn't recommend a 30 only a 40 and 50???

Low oil pressure light comes on at what PSI in your Triumph???
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Robenstein said:
Quote:


I don't have a Harley, I have a Triumph. And no, in cooler climates I imagine the 10w40 is just fine. Harley also mentions that one can use a 40wt in emergency top off situations or cold weather. In high performance and higher temperatures, the 10w40 just does not hold up for several Trumpet owners. Some using Rotella, a favorite alternative to 10w40 bike oils have experienced the same, especially with the 5w40 T6 Rotella in our 790/865cc engines. My Speedmaster shredded the 10w50 Castrol in under 2k miles. Since going to a 20w50, I have had less noise, better shifting(and for longer) and since removing the secondary air injection, a cooler running motor. As for any damage, well I am sure if they Triumph riders on the forum I saw idled their engines long enough with the light on, they could have very well caused excess wear which to me is damage enough even if the engine doesn't die for x amount of miles down the road.


Triumph doesn't recommend a 30 only a 40 and 50???

Low oil pressure light comes on at what PSI in your Triumph???




Yes, and it specifically recommends Castrol 4T 10w50 over the use of a xw40. Before the Castrol it recommended a 50wt offering from Mobil(very similar to the 20w50 V Twin but now discontinued). And I don't know what PSI it comes on. But from my understanding its in the single digits.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Robenstein

And I don't know what PSI it comes on. But from my understanding its in the single digits.



OK if the light comes on in single digits then you still have oil pressure and thus the all
important flow... its not like my oil pressure warning light on Mr.RC45 which comes on at
0.0 or too late!!! I know this because I've installed a digital oil pressure gauge to
better understand the effects of 0-30...

Mr.RC45 Oil Press Gauge at 10 PSI at 203ºF at 1,100 RPMs...
 
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