Synthetic Oil Brand and Weight for Powerstroke 6.7 HO

[BrendanC]

the issue with running a non approved oil in a 6.7 PS is the oiling system is terribly designed. it takes a good while for oil to get to the main bearings after starting. couple this with it being a HO model putting more stress through the crank i wouldn’t give the warranty department a reason to deny your warranty. couldn’t imagine the cost to R&R a power stroke.

 

[4WD]

the issue with running a non approved oil in a 6.7 PS is the oiling system is terribly designed. it takes a good while for oil to get to the main bearings after starting. couple this with it being a HO model putting more stress through the crank i wouldn’t give the warranty department a reason to deny your warranty. couldn’t imagine the cost to R&R a power stroke.

More than most everyone’s first vehicle

 

[BrendanC]

More than most everyone’s first vehicle

more than atleast two of my vehicles combined. i’ve done 6.7 engine swaps back in my full time mechanic days, the labor is intense. my time working on all modern diesels is my reason to never own one give me a LS/LT motor for the rest of my time driving.

 

[4WD]

more than atleast two of my vehicles combined. i’ve done 6.7 engine swaps back in my full time mechanic days, the labor is intense. my time working on all modern diesels is my reason to never own one give me a LS/LT motor for the rest of my time driving.

Yep, our Ford does 1 or 2 cab off’s a day with two techs+helper

 

[johnmyster]

Only if the oil causes damage. That’s what the warranty is predicated on, damage. So if it won’t cause damage then this is just another phantom fear without any backing. Hypotheses are supposed to be based on something, not just baseless fears.

Sometimes I think Bitog needs another acronym- Amsoil Derangement Syndrome, or ADS.

Basis for the hypothesis is that 6.7s have indeed had cam and lifter failures. The earlier ones did spin main bearings.

I suspect you would be 100% correct - the oil didn't cause the hypothetical damage. But instead of showing a stack of Rotella F1 approved receipts to the service writer and having him schedule your crate motor shipment and a rental car, you'd show him your amsoil receipts and perhaps the conversation would continue.

Rotella (which I personally do not use) has a 500,000 mile engine warranty (probably a worthless headache if you tried to use it) on T6. Would Amsoil step in if Ford scoffed on coverage for a kersploded lifter?

 

[Plumb Bob]

There’s one huge difference between truck diesels and semi diesels, though, that is a big reason why some oils aren’t great.

Trucks have about 13 quart capacity, roughly, varying between about 10-15 quarts. Semi’s are generally 10-15 gallons, so roughly 4x more oil. This keeps soot & insolubles at a much lower % of the lubricating fluid. All things equal, if you took a truck Cummins and a semi/bus Cummins, you’d almost certainly be correct to expect lower wear and longer life from the larger sump.

This means an oil that performs just well enough to meet semi standards (due to volume of oil) may not adequately protect a truck engine that’s otherwise identical besides capacity. And, there’s physical tear down data that @RDY4WAR has provided that’s shown Brotella does not perform in gas engines, most likely due to its terrible foaming. When every single bearing is wiped, that’s pretty good proof the oil itself can’t carry the load. Entrained air has really poor load carrying capacity.

Feel free to ignore the testimony of PS 6.7 that have run hundred of thousands of miles, hot-shoting on whatever oil the owners get at Walmart.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Feel free to ignore the testimony of PS 6.7 that have run hundred of thousands of miles, hot-shoting on whatever oil the owners get at Walmart.

And what are the hot-shotters’ OCIs? Especially on a miles-per-quart-of-capacity?

 

[adam8833]

I question how any DIYer comes up with $150-$200 per oil change for any diesel pickup. GM sump is 10 qts. Ram is 12. Ford is what, 13?

2.5 gal jugs of Rotella T6 5w-40 are currently $56 at walmart before $25 rebate. Two rotella rebate cycles per year, two jugs per rebate cycles yields four jugs per year. Four of those per year is enough for three oil changes per year. Add three top shelf $20 filters, (motorcraft, donaldson, fram FE, purolator boss, carquest premium) total outlay $185 plus some tax. That's $62 per OCI.

If you insist on Schaffer’s, HPL, CenPeCo, or Amoil to run long OCI with bypass filters, that puts you in a different category and no rebates. Do your own math.

Plenty of 300-500k mile diesel pickups out there that have lived on a steady diet of Delvac 1300 and T4. My last duramax was one of them.



The recent viral RV transport driver on youtube - daves, etc. He went >900k miles on his original 6.7 before lifter failure. (2017-18 model?) He figured he was spending $370 per oil change. Fancy oil, fancy bypass cartridge, motorcraft filter, and paying a dealer to do it. He was going 15k on changes but his drive cycle (as with most RV delivery owner-operators) makes that OCI irrelevant to most of us.

Him doing his $370 oil change every 15,000 miles is the same cost per mile as me doing a $62 oil change every 1,300 miles. Go figure. T6 should hold up just fine for more than that even in the most extreme use case.

This is my thinking logic as well. I look for a fully approved/certified Ford product (in this case Rotella T6 5w40 and Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme 5w40 meet the bill). Look for and apply if any rebates are available, choose a Motorcraft filter and change every 5k miles. Also, Rotella offers a 500k warranty if you enroll in their program using T6. These oils have been proven time and time again to do very well in many diesel engines without issues. Frequent maintenance is key.

Also, FYI, the current Powerstroke 6.7 now takes 15 quarts of oil.

 

[Plumb Bob]

And what are the hot-shotters’ OCIs? Especially on a miles-per-quart-of-capacity?

Hot-shotters, or otherwise, the trucks last forever on Approved oil. Same with Cummins (Ram) and Duramax. Longer OCI and cleaner (healthier) engines can be achieved with HPL, but that's no reason to fearmonger the OP.

 

[userfriendly]

Hot-shotters, or otherwise, the trucks last forever on Approved oil. Same with Cummins (Ram) and Duramax. Longer OCI and cleaner (healthier) engines can be achieved with HPL, but that's no reason to fearmonger the OP.

I’m still not drinking the Kool Aid, especially if based on an engine oil cost per mile.
I’d rather change the oil more often than drag the oil change interval out trying to get my money’s worth out of a much more expensive product.
Nevertheless, next year new trucks may not have emission equipment at all. The elimination of EGR alone will keep the engine oil cleaner longer.
A new API standard, CL-4, may lift the phosphorous limit altogether, and we’ll be back to old school common sense.
Goodbye CARB, CAFE, asinine EPA mandates etc, and hello The Transportation Freedom Act.

 

[Plumb Bob]

I’m still not drinking the Kool Aid, especially if based on an engine oil cost per mile.
I’d rather change the oil more often than drag the oil change interval out trying to get my money’s worth out of a much more expensive product.
Nevertheless, next year new trucks may not have emission equipment at all. The elimination of EGR alone will keep the engine oil cleaner longer.
A new API standard, CL-4, may lift the phosphorous limit altogether, and we’ll be back to old school common sense.
Goodbye CARB, CAFE, asinine EPA mandates etc, and hello The Transportation Freedom Act.

It is a better-formulated oil, so there are no questions. Whether it's worth it or not, it's up to your wallet to decide. The one sure thing is that the World does not run on boutique oils; and it runs fine with the approved ones. Cleaning a 1991 engine's deposits is not (and shouldn't be) the priority of newly approved oils.

 

[johnmyster]

And what are the hot-shotters’ OCIs? Especially on a miles-per-quart-of-capacity?

I don't care how many miles a hot shot truck driver goes on oil. He drives 300 miles in overdrive gears from one fuel stop to the next. Hot shotter Don's miles don't equate to what short-trip Sally does on her daily driver. Time and time again we see these miracle youtube stories of 1.4 million mile LBZ or 920k mile Scorpion. All of PD's 4th gen cummins trucks with >500k on them when he sells them. Sometimes on boutique oil, sometimes on generic stuff. Sometimes with bypass filtering, sometimes not.

Duramax is still at 2.5 gallons. Cummins at 3. Powerstroke is now back to pressing on 4. (IIRC the HEUI engines had big sumps.) None of those three presently mandate full syn anything, and the cummins advocates a silly 15k mile interval. Real truck engines have 4x bigger sumps but they're also bigger engines - larger piston bores with more linear inches of rings to blow by. They probably stand to make more soot per mile, burn more fuel per mile, etc.

Bottom line is that miles nor hours are a measure of equivalence. The detroit manual I dug up showed different limits based on use but also had VOA limits that would indicate within a fleet/application when to do changes.

My truck sees 40% of its miles on the highway with a camper attached. Probably another 25% on road trips. The remainder is short trips within the state parks, to the stores, etc. My use is very bimodal, and based on that my OCIs using "good enough" rebate $10/gal full syn wind up being pretty short. At that point it's cheap PM.

 

[ford250]

What’s wrong with just running Motorcraft 10W-30
It’s $25 bucks for 1.25 gallon jug at Walmart. Change ever 5K miles and call it day

 

[adam8833]

What’s wrong with just running Motorcraft 10W-30
It’s $25 bucks for 1.25 gallon jug at Walmart. Change ever 5K miles and call it day

I'm not opposed to the Motorcraft 10W-30. It appears to be non-synthetic. I'm also not opposed to running Rotella T6 10W-30, but I think I fall under "Severe Driving Conditions" as I will be "towing a load" per the owners manual as seen below. For "Severe Duty Service", Ford recommends a 5W-40 full synthetic oil.

 

[YZJB]

 

[ford250]

Be my choice for extreme load

 

[johnmyster]

It’s always funny that a HD diesel truck with 40,000 gcwr has the same definition of severe service as a Tacoma.

Owner figures they hauled a load of mulch or a 7k travel trailer…boom severe service.

 

[daimlercoupe]

Forget Rotella. It shears out of grade (per UOAs), is highly volatile (12%), and foams like a draft beer (55 ml, >2.5x the max allowed). It also contains no friction modifier and ZDDP is <800 ppm P per latest UOAs. You won't find anyone serious about oil using that junk. People who recommend Rotella are just using mental gymnastics to inflate their cheap purchase to be something greater than it actually is. Shell also spends ~$60 million/yr marketing it.

I'm not impressed with any common major brand CK-4 oil. The bar is just set too low, and they're all in a race to the bottom. I also wouldn't put weight on the WSS-M2C171-F1 spec. It's just a mirror of CK-4. Whether or not a brand carries it is just a matter of whether or not they feel like paying royalties to Ford.

In general, oil is cheap. Even top shelf boutique oils are cheap in the grand scheme of things. I'd want to treat that engine with the best available such as HPL HDMO or Amsoil Signature HDMO. I have much more trust in these brands than I do some mediocre cert from a major brand. For example, CK-4 allows 20 ml of foam where as HPL's standard is 0 ml. If it foams any whatsoever, they don't ship it. API's standards for rust prevention is a 4 hour test in freshwater where as HPL's is a 24 hour test in saltwater. Amsoil and Red Line's standards are similar.

I’ve got a ‘22 6.7. In my experience, people with ‘19 and earlier engines will report different findings with different oils (T6 5w-40 solves typewriter noise, doesn’t produce abysmal UOAs, etc) than those of us with ‘20-up engines. @RDY4WAR hit the nail on the head. I’ve done 5000 mile OCIs since new, UOAs on all. Used Rotella 5w-40 for two changes after factory fill, typewriter noise was terrible, fuel economy was abysmal, wear metals were consistently high, chromium actually went up. Switched to 15w-40, which is what I used in my equipment at the time, quieted the engine down and improved the UOA but it sheared out of grade. Switched to Schaeffer’s 15w-40, immediately gained 2mpg. After two oil changes iron and copper went from 28 and 5 with the T6 15w-40 to 12 and 1 after the first run with Schaeffer’s. (This obviously isn’t a high-mileage engine, all of this could be explained by break-in, but UOAs posted by others played a big role in my decision to switch.)

The Schaeffer’s viscosity seems like it might be a bit high for that engine in the winter where I’m at, I think there’s room for improvement. BITOG community swears by HPL so I’m giving their 10w-40 HDEO a shot (although after ordering it I realized that only their 10w-30 and 15w-40 are listed as meeting the spec, which I’ll have to investigate).

 

[kschachn]

I’ve got a ‘22 6.7. In my experience, people with ‘19 and earlier engines will report different findings with different oils (T6 5w-40 solves typewriter noise, doesn’t produce abysmal UOAs, etc) than those of us with ‘20-up engines. @RDY4WAR hit the nail on the head. I’ve done 5000 mile OCIs since new, UOAs on all. Used Rotella 5w-40 for two changes after factory fill, typewriter noise was terrible, fuel economy was abysmal, wear metals were consistently high, chromium actually went up. Switched to 15w-40, which is what I used in my equipment at the time, quieted the engine down and improved the UOA but it sheared out of grade. Switched to Schaeffer’s 15w-40, immediately gained 2mpg. After two oil changes iron and copper went from 28 and 5 with the T6 15w-40 to 12 and 1 after the first run with Schaeffer’s. (This obviously isn’t a high-mileage engine, all of this could be explained by break-in, but UOAs posted by others played a big role in my decision to switch.)

The Schaeffer’s viscosity seems like it might be a bit high for that engine in the winter where I’m at, I think there’s room for improvement. BITOG community swears by HPL so I’m giving their 10w-40 HDEO a shot (although after ordering it I realized that only their 10w-30 and 15w-40 are listed as meeting the spec, which I’ll have to investigate).

You’re saying that between two oils of the same grade you gained 2 MPG on one of them? That’s amazing.

 

[mattd]

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