Surprised by a Prius

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted By: The Critic

I cannot speak for your numbers, but I had a 2012 Malibu for 2 days while my 2011 Prius was in the body shop. During that time, the Malibu averaged about 19 mpg combined in my terrain. In comparison, my Prius averages about 40 in comparison.

I really don't know where you folks are getting the high 20s average with the mid sizers; I would have to guess that many of you live in rural areas with little traffic. In most metropolitan areas, I cannot see these midsizers getting more than mid 20s...and in the same use, the Prius will be in the low to mid 40s.


Critic, what people usually do is compare those cars highway mpg's. Not the city, which is what most drivers do.

Its noteworthy that the Prius is rated 51mpg CITY, 48mpg Highway. The 2012 Cruze and Accord are getting (according to Fuelly averages, which has no bias) 33.0mpg & 26.5mpg, respectively. THATS a good picture of the combined, which is what most people are going to see. The 2012 Prius earned 48.6mpg on fuelly, which we can assume is a good picture of its mpg's in combined driving.

So I'd like to see a comparison of the cost effectiveness of the Prius vs. the Cruze vs. the Accord at the real-world fuelly, owner self-reported mpg's of 48.6mpg, 33.0mpg & 26.5mpg. In all fairness, if you are going to compare the cars that way, at least use the same set of data!

 

[surfstar]

Wait, wait - lets do me!

I paid $2700 last year for a '00 Civic HX (lean burn engine) and get 40-41 mpg avg. Where do I stand?!?

 

[dareo]

surfstar without doing the math i'm going to say your numbers dominate in efficiency and cost of car!

Chriz, 2012 or 2013 or 2014 Cruze Eco is all the same, drives like this one for example have 49 mpg over 31,000 miles

http://www.fuelly.com/driver/lynreyn/cruze

2012 Accord is a totally different car than a 2013+, so lets forget 2012 for that example.

Anyone comparing whether or not they will save 6,000 in fuel over the lifetime of the car will be buying new anyway. What is the point of comparing partial lifetimes of used cars all at different prices? 2014 is the model year people are buying today, not 2012.

 

[surfstar]

But wait, there's more:
"A new platform, revamped interior and 55 mpg should make the 2015 Toyota Prius the iconic gas-electric, go-to choice among hybrids."

Eventually it will make [economic] sense for me to get rid of the used cars and into something newer with those high mpgs - but I still want a CUV that gets 40+mpg so I can live with one vehicle.

 

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted By: dareo
surfstar without doing the math i'm going to say your numbers dominate in efficiency and cost of car!

Chriz, 2012 or 2013 or 2014 Cruze Eco is all the same, drives like this one for example have 49 mpg over 31,000 miles

http://www.fuelly.com/driver/lynreyn/cruze

2012 Accord is a totally different car than a 2013+, so lets forget 2012 for that example.

Anyone comparing whether or not they will save 6,000 in fuel over the lifetime of the car will be buying new anyway. What is the point of comparing partial lifetimes of used cars all at different prices? 2014 is the model year people are buying today, not 2012.


Surfstar, you are definitely ahead of the game, what a deal!!

Dareo, we can compare high gas mileage cars all day and all night but only if its on your terms? Got it. Moving on....

 

[dareo]

I hope there will be a 55 mpg prius, that would make it more competitive with either:

A: high mpg gas cars, for the long highway drivers

If you trust the EPA's combined city highway rating, there are 9 pages of 10 cars a page of 2014 model cars that are 30 or higher combined fuel economy. 90 something cars, take out the hybrids and electrics and its still a dozens of choices that are close to the costs of driving a Prius.


B: Electrics, anyone needing the high city rating on a prius can use a Leaf and drive for 1/5 to 1/3 the cost of gasoline. Sometimes even free if they have chargers at work or something.
The leaf is only about $4,000 more than a Prius to buy, then you can claim a $7500 federal and in most states another credit.

 

[PandaBear]

Surfstar is the winner here. Like my manager back in the hybrid student project days said, you can never beat the cost of ownership of an old, reliable, and fuel efficient beater (he was thinking about a 40mpg corolla in the late 90s early 2000s).

You will never beat a $2700 beater that has 41mpg, with any new car purchase.

 

[PandaBear]

But if you really have to compare cost of ownership for, say, 300k miles of long distance commute, between a reliable Civic vs a reliable Prius C, and disregard any creature comfort. You can assume that a new cell rebuild battery is going to be about $3000 at the moment.

If you want to compare a 150k mile 1st gen Insight (with almost 60mpg) against the Civic HX, you probably will factor in $2000-500 for a fresh Insight rebuild battery.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
but what about all that lithium


Yep, what about lithium? I'm with you, Americans consume way too much lithium. Why take all that lithium medications, when you can just stop drinking. Easy solution for the lithium problem.

 

[friendly_jacek]

So pandabear, you say hondas never brake and batteries always need to be replaced in prius? Last time I checked, tranny in honda was more expensive to replace than battery in prius.

 

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
but what about all that lithium


Yep, what about lithium? I'm with you, Americans consume way too much lithium. Why take all that lithium medications, when you can just stop drinking. Easy solution for the lithium problem.


HAHAHAHHA Thanks FJ... I just about fell out of my chair over that one...lol

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Surfstar is the winner here. Like my manager back in the hybrid student project days said, you can never beat the cost of ownership of an old, reliable, and fuel efficient beater (he was thinking about a 40mpg corolla in the late 90s early 2000s).

You will never beat a $2700 beater that has 41mpg, with any new car purchase.



^ yup, beaters rule. Keep in mind that the Gen1 Prius is out there as a "beater" too. A used 2001 Prius is right around that $3K mark for PP in KBB.

It is both hilarious and extremely sad that people think that "highway" is the fuel economy of the vehicle. I lived in DC and averaged over 40mpg in a Honda Fit. The reason: I only drove it on long-out-of-town trips and used transit in town. If I drove it around DC and during the bad-traffic times I would struggle even to get 25mpg at best if I killed the engine during long idle times. Those hybrids do have some HUGE benefit to urban/suburban driving conditions.

 

[glock19]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Surfstar is the winner here. Like my manager back in the hybrid student project days said, you can never beat the cost of ownership of an old, reliable, and fuel efficient beater (he was thinking about a 40mpg corolla in the late 90s early 2000s).

You will never beat a $2700 beater that has 41mpg, with any new car purchase.



^ yup, beaters rule. Keep in mind that the Gen1 Prius is out there as a "beater" too. A used 2001 Prius is right around that $3K mark for PP in KBB.

It is both hilarious and extremely sad that people think that "highway" is the fuel economy of the vehicle. I lived in DC and averaged over 40mpg in a Honda Fit. The reason: I only drove it on long-out-of-town trips and used transit in town. If I drove it around DC and during the bad-traffic times I would struggle even to get 25mpg at best if I killed the engine during long idle times. Those hybrids do have some HUGE benefit to urban/suburban driving conditions.


All I could think was "Congrats on getting out of DC." I can't wait until we move next summer. The traffic here is just brutal.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: glock19
All I could think was "Congrats on getting out of DC." I can't wait until we move next summer. The traffic here is just brutal.


Where in the NOVA area do you live? I learned to drive when we lived in Herndon. Terrible traffic back them (early-to-mid '90s). Even worse today.

 

[Smokescreen]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Surfstar is the winner here. Like my manager back in the hybrid student project days said, you can never beat the cost of ownership of an old, reliable, and fuel efficient beater (he was thinking about a 40mpg corolla in the late 90s early 2000s).

You will never beat a $2700 beater that has 41mpg, with any new car purchase.




^ yup, beaters rule. Keep in mind that the Gen1 Prius is out there as a "beater" too. A used 2001 Prius is right around that $3K mark for PP in KBB.

It is both hilarious and extremely sad that people think that "highway" is the fuel economy of the vehicle. I lived in DC and averaged over 40mpg in a Honda Fit. The reason: I only drove it on long-out-of-town trips and used transit in town. If I drove it around DC and during the bad-traffic times I would struggle even to get 25mpg at best if I killed the engine during long idle times. Those hybrids do have some HUGE benefit to urban/suburban driving conditions.


If you drive all-highway....then the highway rating is a pretty good ruler to what to expect. Like wise for city mileage and city/highway mixed mileage ratings. Of course there are infinite types of commutes, but narrowing the ratings to those three are good enough. I don't think anyone here was trying to apply a highway rating to anything else.

I have a 98% all highway commute...and I still beat the EPA highway and city rating for all my cars.

 

[glock19]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: glock19
All I could think was "Congrats on getting out of DC." I can't wait until we move next summer. The traffic here is just brutal.


Where in the NOVA area do you live? I learned to drive when we lived in Herndon. Terrible traffic back them (early-to-mid '90s). Even worse today.


We live in Arlington and I commute to College Park. Luckily my work schedule is flexible so I travel at off times but even then I get screwed over by an accident about once a week. We have plans to move to Charlottesville, it just can't come soon enough.

 

[FutureDoc]

Thanks. I lived in the Palisades and commuted into Arlington while my Wife worked in Georgetown. She has the "nice commute" and I had the less convenient option but that was better than when I was working on N. Capitol St. It is funny, traffic IN DC is not bad. It is in MD and VA where it can be brutal. After you make it past the "burbs" and not during rush-hour, DC is actually fairly easy to live in... save for the tourist driving like they are still in Wisconsin (sorry Wisconsin folks... just picked a "out of town" place)

I lived in FXBG when "NoVa/DC" traffic was 10 mils north of Exit 130 and now it seems it is a good 10mi South.

My wife said "I want out" and now we are in Asheville. Glock, I completely understand the plan to get out and we made it happen within a few months but I still had to commute back to DC for my contract until this past Sept. She loves non-DC, I kinda miss the "action" but it is avl cool town.

Anyway, my MR2 beats the EPA rating easily. I have averaged over 30mpg over the last three years. The Fit does about 33-35mpg in the mountains with my wife's commute and the Subaru is the lazy beater... keeps around 23-24mpg no matter what. Sure, I can get it to do 27mpg highway but it can easily fall to 19-21 in the city. The issue was that one individual was really taking the "best case" highway mileage to skew their argument. Sure, you can take a highway-only commute as an example (especially if it is skewed towards an extreme example) but do not make it a universal.

 

[Zako2]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
I don't understand people who buy a Prius for a benefit for helping the environment, sure less coming out the tailpipe, but what about all that lithium in those big [censored] batteries? It comes from the rain forest. Mined by diesel machinery, which pollutes, and then trucked in a diesel, sent in a barge, and processed in factories, made into batteries, and then transported to be put into new cars.

Just my .02



The eco benefits from more Priuses can be very significant. Sure, the overall environmental impact resulting from driving a Prius may be pretty big. However, what should really count is the fact that the pollution is less concentrated. A lot of big cities have very poor air quality, so more electric vehicles and hybrids there will certainly improve the quality of life of a lot of people, whereas a coal electricity plant or a battery factory could be in theory somewhere in a desert where few people live.

 

[Zako2]

Originally Posted By: dareo
Please elaborate on how a Prius will save 6,000 in fuel.

I see an average of 48 mpg on a 2012 Prius on Fuelly

The most sold car this year, albeit larger, Honda Accord will be my example with 4 cylinder models are averaging at least 30 mpg.

At 100,000 miles:

48 mpg Prius = 2083 gallons
30 mpg Accord = 3333 gallons

$3751 more in the Accord at today's prices.


I think that Prius is somewhat overpriced, but not by a lot. If Prius was priced 2-3K less for all trims, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The base Prius is equipped like an Accord LX, but priced like an Accord EX. So once you get out of the dealership with a new Prius, you're already about $2,000 in red compared to buying an Accord LX.

In first year of ownership, it looks like my parents will drive over 25,000 miles in the Prius each year. So, in 7-8 years, they could easily save 6-7K in fuel over a similarly priced Accord. Of course, if the batteries needed to be replaced, that would erase some of the savings. Like I said, if Prius was priced 2-3K less, it would have been a pretty sweet deal.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
So pandabear, you say hondas never brake and batteries always need to be replaced in prius? Last time I checked, tranny in honda was more expensive to replace than battery in prius.


I never said that. However, most Honda's manual transmission are reliable (if you get the CVT insight that's a different story, as manual has the lean burn engine that CVT does not have).

Tranny in a small civic sized car should be very cheap when it dies due to age, and manual on small Honda doesn't have design issue that V6 Honda auto has. I highly doubt a rebuild honda civic manual tranny should be $2-3k in parts (san installation as both battery and swapping tranny need installation labor).

Or you can swap in a junk yard totaled manual tranny and call it a day, if you are unlucky that the manual civic tranny die.

The rest of the cars compare similarly between Prius and Insight / Civic.