Subaru Outback H6 2001 - 0W-20? ...

[Soharu]

Hi. Thanks for creating and maintaining such a great site! What a wealth of information. This is my first post.

I need to change my oil and I want to switch to a synthetic. According to the post titled, ""What oil should I use? What is the BEST oil?" by d00fd00f in the "Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gas/Pickups/Vans/SUVs" forum, here are my answers.

1. What kind of vehicle you have: 2001 Subaru Legacy Outback L.L. Bean Edition (6 cylinders)
2. What your owner's manual says -- not just viscosity, but certifications (look for acronyms like API SM, ILSAC GF-4, etc.) and change intervals as well: Subaru Preferred: SAE 5W-30 API Service SJ Grade "Energy Conserving" CMCC Spec. G4 or G5, ACEA Spec. A1, A2 or A3 temperature range 104 degrees F down to -22 degrees F and lower; Alternatives: 10W-30 or 10W-40 - temperature range -4 degrees F up to 104 degrees F and above.
3. Where you live: New York City
4. How you drive (easy? hard? fast? slow?): Hardish and fastish
5. What your daily drive is like (short trips? long trips? city? highway?): No daily drive. But, we drive weekly and average 10,000 miles per year.
6. Whether your car has any known problems: One of my valve cover gaskets is seeping oil. Will replace both soon.
7. If you have any preferences -- synthetic vs. conventional, store-bought vs. ordered online, how long you'd like to go between oil changes, etc. -- or any other info you think might be important, let us know that as well: I am leaning toward trying a synthetic oil this weekend. I've ordered an OEM filter for my h6 which comes with a crush washer. I'm open to either buying it online, or, in a store. My wife and I are taking the kids away for their last weekend before school starts and we will be passing by a Walmart. We've had our oil changed every 3,000 miles but, I'm open to now changing the 6 quarts of oil and putting on the new OEM filters for the 6 cylinder myself every 5000 miles or a minimum of twice per year. My wife likes to shop in New Jersey so, she takes the car in for oil changes at a local place there. She has no idea what they've been putting in the car but, she has it changed every 3000 miles religiously. I've read through the "Motor Oil University" a couple of times and very comfortable with going with a synthetic SM rated 0W-30 and get the benefits of less damage to the engine during start-up, a cleaner engine and potentially better gas milage. I'm concerned with an even lower viscosity in light of the pending valve cover gaskets replacement. So, given where I live, should I be even considering switching to an synthetic SM rated 0W-20. The hottest temperature ever recorded in NYC is 106 degrees which occurred on July 9, 1936. The coldest temperature ever recorded in NYC is -15 degrees which occurred on February 9, 1934. Also, we park the car on the street - it's not garaged. What other information will you need to help me make this decision? Thanks!

 

[Hollow]

Nope to the 0w20. Too thin and not a recommended viscosity for that engine.

Any quality 0/5W30 will keep it happy.

 

[Danno]

5W-30 PP, Mobil 1 or QSUD would work well for you.

 

[Norm Olt]

Originally Posted By: Hollow
Nope to the 0w20. Too thin and not a recommended viscosity for that engine.

Any quality 0/5W30 will keep it happy.


Forget the "0" as almost any 5 or 10W-30 will work just fine.

Cheers!

 

[john_pifer]

I've been very happy with Mobil 1 in my 2007 V6 Tacoma.

I've owned it since new, and I've used some variant of Mobil 1 5W-30 in the crankcase since I drained the FF @ 3000 miles.

The truck has over 115,000 miles now, and uses no oil. My driving is a mix of short trips, 20-mile interstate runs to and from work, and longer interstate trips where the truck will be run at 80 mph for hours.

Never any problems with the engine, and no valve cover leaks.

For tens of thousands of miles now, I've been using the M1 Extended Performance variety, and doing 7500-mile OCIs. I like that the oil is extended-drain capable. As far as I know, the M1 Extended Performance variety is the only commonly-available (sold over the counter at most stores) oil that is extended-drain certified (guaranteed for 15,000 miles).

After a positive oil analysis report, I recently switched to 10,000-mile OCIs. For me, that works out to 2 oil changes per year.

The oil is readily available, and relatively cheap at Wal-Mart, or if you wait for it to go on sale at local auto parts stores.

So, after using it for tens of thousands of miles, I have had no reason to switch to anything else.

Here is a link to my last 2 analysis reports from Blackstone:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...792#Post3076792

 

[lubedude13]

5w30 works great where you are. Mobil 1 and amsoil both have a 0w30 which is a good option for especially winter use

 

[john_pifer]

Yep, a 0-30 would be a fine choice in NYC - especially with the short trips and parking outside.

 

[Bandito440]

Originally Posted By: lubedude13
5w30 works great where you are. Mobil 1 and amsoil both have a 0w30 which is a good option for especially winter use

This. Also, don't forget our beloved Castrol 0w-30. An of those will do well. Just get whatever is easiest to obtain.

 

[HangFire]

A 0w-30 is only "lower viscosity" when it's really cold outside, at warmed-up engine operating temperatures it is still a 30W oil.

Oils have moved on since your car was made, "SJ" is hardly available any more, or "SL", the choices are primarily "SM" and "SN". Given that you store your vehicle outside, use it weekly, and it's probably an AWD that you take out of town (things get colder outside of NYC in Winter), I would suggest a synthetic 0w-30, but you won't do bad to use a good synthetic 5w-30 either. I would stay away from the 20's and the conventionals. They would work "OK" but if you have to ask you're a better candidate for a synthetic.

 

[Soharu]

Hollow; Danno; Norm Olt; John_Pifer; Lubedude13; Bandito440; HangFire: Thanks for the feed back.

I'm trying to learn so ...
1. Why is 0W-20 too thin for my vehicle? One of the conclusions of the "Motor Oil University" was that Bob switched one of his vehicles to 0W-20. But, he was just driving this car around the City. I'm driving in the City minimally during the week and on highways during the weekends. Is that the difference? Or, is it the fact that my car is 12 years old. Bob did make reference to using higher and higher viscosity oils as time marched on - 0W-20 to 0W-30 to a 0W-40.
2. Thanks for the information on extended-drain capable/extended-drain certified.
3. I just placed a bulk order of 6 tests from Blackstone for $114, or, $19 per test and 3 Total Base Number (TBN) tests at $10 each. My plan is to check my current oil and the new oil (whatever I decide on) that I put into the car for the next two oil changes. In addition, I'm having them assess my current front and rear differential fluids as well as my automatic transmission fluid that I just took out of the car last weekend.
4. If the 5W-30 work great where I am, what is the process that I would follow to show that the 0W-30, or, a 0W-40 is better? According to Bob in the Motor Oil University, "You have to try by experimentation what operating oil grade your engine requires. In all cases however, you want the oil that gets least honey-like at startup and thins to the appropriate thickness for normal operation."

So, I'm going to start with a synthetic 0W-30 API SN preferably. Next, I compare this to my gas milage over the next ~ 15 tank fulls (5,000 miles) of gas versus my previous gas milage. Then, I change my oil and have a UOA done on it. At this point, do I change the oil to 5W-30? How do I get smarter about which specific grade of synthetic oil works best in my 2001 H6 OB?

Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[bluesubie]

At 5k OCI's, any 5W-30 conventional oil or synthetic blend. I've been running Max Life 5/10W-30 or Pennzoil High Mileage in my daughter's 2000 RS for about 70k miles now with 5-6k+ mile OCI's.

No worries about starting in the cold as your manual allows 10W-40 down to -4F. I've even used a conventional 10W-40 in a '99 Outback during the winter.

I would only use synthetic if I ran an oil past 7,500 miles.

-Dennis

P.S. - Motor Oil University was not written by "Bob" nor a representative of Fuji Heavy Industries.

 

[Errtt]

Originally Posted By: Soharu
Subaru Preferred: SAE 5W-30 API Service SJ Grade "Energy Conserving" CMCC Spec. G4 or G5, ACEA Spec. A1, A2 or A3 temperature range 104 degrees F down to -22 degrees F and lower; Alternatives: 10W-30 or 10W-40 - temperature range -4 degrees F up to 104 degrees F and above.


I'd use a good 5w-30

 

[Bandito440]

You're on the right track there, although perhaps over thinking things a bit. You're car was designed for 30 weight oils, so don't deviate from that end unless there's something specifically wrong that you're trying to address.

0w-30 and 5w-30 - I'd try Castrol, Mobil 1, and Amsoil all in 0w-30 if you're planning to experiment with some UOAs. Start at 7,500 miles with the goal of 10,000 mile annual changes if all is well and the TBN shows you're in good shape. I see no reason to try 5w-30. The 0w is beneficial for both your short trips and cold startups.

Now is a good time to swap out the differential and transmission fluids. If they're original from 2001, it's time for sure.

 

[Soharu]

Bandito440 - Thanks. In the beginning, it's hard to distinguish the "signal from the noise". I will give a 0W-30 a try. My reasoning on the 5,000 mile OCI is that I read in the "Motor Oil University" that cold winters in the North kill oils by "permanently thickening" them and that one should consider changing your oils in the spring. A.E. Haas said, "My feeling is that you can probably go 5,000 miles on the average (in a sports car) but you must change your oil in the spring time at a minimum, particularly up north. Oils form waxes in icy cold weather. There is a permanent thickening of the oil." I realize that my Subaru's not a sports car but the "permanent thickening" of the oil seemed to demand an oil change after the winter was up. Also, I only put 10,000 miles per year on the car. Those two factors were how I came up with the 5,000 miles. Your point is that I should base the OCI on the UOA as a whole with a focus on the TBN. Start with an analysis based on an at 7,500 miles and see if I can go up from there. Are you further suggesting that I just pull some oil at 7,500 miles and have it analyzed and based on that analysis, determine if I should keep the oil in the car?

By the way, I've already changed my front and rear differential fluids (went with Red Line 75W90 Synthetic Gear Oil) and my automatic transmission fluid (went with Subaru's High Performance Automatic Transmission Fluid).

Thanks again.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Soharu
My reasoning on the 5,000 mile OCI is that I read in the "Motor Oil University" that cold winters in the North kill oils by "permanently thickening" them and that one should consider changing your oils in the spring. A.E. Haas said, "My feeling is that you can probably go 5,000 miles on the average (in a sports car) but you must change your oil in the spring time at a minimum, particularly up north. Oils form waxes in icy cold weather. There is a permanent thickening of the oil."


I'm an engineer, and am planning on an article "plastic surgery 101" when I feel qualified to do so...also thinking of "Insurance 101" at about the same time.

Until that point, your owner's manual for your subie is probably a good start.

 

[threeputtpar]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
I'm an engineer, and am planning on an article "plastic surgery 101" when I feel qualified to do so...also thinking of "Insurance 101" at about the same time.

Until that point, your owner's manual for your subie is probably a good start.


What Shannow is saying is that AE Haas, the man that wrote Motor Oil 101, is a very wealthy plastic surgeon that can afford to experiment with oil choices in his very expensive vehicles. If he blows one up, he'll probably just write a check for a new one. The 0W-20 that he refers to is Renewable Lubricants, Inc, and although it is labeled a 0W-20, one characteristic actually makes it behave in an engine as if it was an xW-30 or even and xW-40. That trait is called High Temp/High Shear or HTHS. It's more of a measurement of operational viscosity inside the high pressure areas of an engine like bearings.

With that being said, the normal 0W-20 that you'll find on the WalMart shelf has a lower HTHS number than the one Dr Haas uses and what your engine calls for. For your particular engine, you really don't need and oil with a higher HTHS, as the engine was not designed to need it and it will only reduce fuel economy. Your best bet would be to pick any of the synthetic 5W-30s off the WalMart shelf and call it a day. Your car needs nothing special in regards to motor oil.

 

[Thermo1223]

The H6 has a timing chain so it will beat(shear) the oil to death overtime. While I don't think 0w20 especially Toyota or Subaru branded will harm anything I wouldn't just run it and not worry.

They designed the new FB series in the Forester with a timing chain & 0w20 in mind. That means tighter tolerances from he get go. Considering your 2001 H6 has been well used I would worry your tolerances would be way to far hold adequate oil pressure with a 0w20 especially during the warmer months.

Saying that you can certainly experiment if you choose so, one OCI of 0w20 is not going to cause complete engine failure but you should drive cautiously if doing so. I would get a mechanical oil pressure gauge installed though.

Personally I am a huge fan of Mobil 1 AFE 0w30 but also GC 0w30 however if I wanted to be really cost effective Maxlife 5w30 is hard to beat.

 

[bluesubie]

Thermo - Good point on the timing chain. I know gpshumway has a little trend of M1 0W-30 and M1 0W-40 posted on nasioc but the intervals are fairly short for those oils IMO.

gps - Anything to do with the timing chain or just over cautious?

Subaru keeps changing the oci's for the newer timing chain cars. At first, they said the FB engine Forester should have the initial oil changed at 3,750 miles due to the timing chain being hard on oil (apparently the 305 hp turbocharged STI isn't). Then they said 7,500 miles was fine but I believe they only changed it at mysubaru.com but not the warranty booklet.

Shannow - Looking forward to reading Plastic Surgery 101 when it's complete.

-Dennis

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Soharu

1. Why is 0W-20 too thin for my vehicle? One of the conclusions of the "Motor Oil University" was that Bob switched one of his vehicles to 0W-20. But, he was just driving this car around the City. I'm driving in the City minimally during the week and on highways during the weekends. Is that the difference? Or, is it the fact that my car is 12 years old. Bob did make reference to using higher and higher viscosity oils as time marched on - 0W-20 to 0W-30 to a 0W-40.

A 0W-20 may not be too thin for your car (or any car) on start-up but once up to maximum operating temp's that's when a 20wt oil may not provide a sufficient viscosity reserve.
How would you know? If your car is equipped with oil temperature and oil pressure gauges then you could determine just how thin your oil is getting on long drive in the summer.
Since you don't likely have oil gauges in your car it's probably best to stick with the the recommended 30wt oil but you can choice a 0W/5W-30 that's at the thin end of the grade.
Most synthetic SN 0W-30 and 5W-30 oils are very similar in viscosity. That said, Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30, Pennzoil Platnium 5W-30 and Havoline 5W-30 are three of the lighter 30wt oils available.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
A 0W-20 may not be too thin for your car (or any car) on start-up but once up to maximum operating temp's that's when a 20wt oil may not provide a sufficient viscosity reserve.


That's your best line yet...