Subaru Outback H6 2001 - 0W-20? ...

[Bandito440]

If you're comfortable with 5,000 mile 6 month intervals, go for it. Whichever synthetic 0w-30 you use should be able to go for twice that, but only UOA can tell. It'll be only a small cost over the life of the vehicle anyhow, and not a big deal. In an older vehicle, it's a good excuse to poke around and look for other potential problems anyway.

It's good that you got the gear oils out. How about a coolant flush?

 

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Thermo - Good point on the timing chain. I know gpshumway has a little trend of M1 0W-30 and M1 0W-40 posted on nasioc but the intervals are fairly short for those oils IMO.

gps - Anything to do with the timing chain or just over cautious?


Mostly warranty preservation and convenience. If you look at the manual for a 2010 OB 3.6 (my dad's car), it says 7,500 miles for "normal" driving and 3,750 for severe service. Severe service is defined as short trips, cold weather, or dusty conditions. Well, my dad does almost no short trips, but lives in frigid Northern Minnesota half a mile down a gravel road. Is that severe service or not? During the warranty period we decided to go with 5,000 mi OCis to be on the safe side. Now that warranty is done we're running M1 AFE 0w30 to 10,000 miles.

I haven't updated the UOA thread on NASIOC with the latest UOAs yet, but the latetst two are both over 8k mi and both look good. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2445172

As others have said, no to Xw20 in an EZ30 engine. Resource Conserving Xw30 is the way to go. As the car ages High Mileage 5w30 or possibly M1 0w40 would be a good choice.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
The H6 has a timing chain so it will beat(shear) the oil to death overtime. While I don't think 0w20 especially Toyota or Subaru branded will harm anything I wouldn't just run it and not worry.

They designed the new FB series in the Forester with a timing chain & 0w20 in mind. That means tighter tolerances from he get go. Considering your 2001 H6 has been well used I would worry your tolerances would be way to far hold adequate oil pressure with a 0w20 especially during the warmer months.

Saying that you can certainly experiment if you choose so, one OCI of 0w20 is not going to cause complete engine failure but you should drive cautiously if doing so. I would get a mechanical oil pressure gauge installed though.

Personally I am a huge fan of Mobil 1 AFE 0w30 but also GC 0w30 however if I wanted to be really cost effective Maxlife 5w30 is hard to beat.


I have had OHC engines for some time now with timining chains and do 10K OCIs. To date I have not had an issue with the oil degrading(sever shear) at all and have never had a chain make noise or any indication that there is chain guide wear or chain wear itself. My last engine was a Ford 4.6 with 218K and still very quite. No chain noise.

 

[Soharu]

Guys - I ultimately went with M1 AFE 0W-30. Picked up two 5.1 quart containers from Walmart. Wanted to try PP but the store wasn't well stocked and didn't have any 0W-30. Also, picked up a gallon of Subaru coolant from the dealership.

Did my 2nd of three ATF drain and fills. It took me too long to remove my transmission filter. Bought 3 tools to get it off that didn't work: 1st, 2 In. To 4-1/4 In. oil filter wrench from Harbor Freight; 2nd, BOA Constrictor Aluminum Strap Wrench; 3rd, Wrench for Six Cylinder Subaru Filter. I finally drove a huge screw driver through the heart of that filter and twisted that vampire off. What a PITA. Then installed a new Subaru AT filter and 5 quarts of Subaru HP ATF. Next, drained the old oil and installed the M1 AFE 0W-30. After completing this, my wife commandeered the car.

Tomorrow, I'll do a few flushes with distilled water and then I'll load the system with the Subaru coolant.

We now have a house full of guests so, my car maintenance will be slow going.

Thanks again for all the input. It really helps.

 

[Bandito440]

Originally Posted By: Soharu
Guys - I ultimately went with M1 AFE 0W-30. Picked up two 5.1 quart containers from Walmart. Wanted to try PP but the store wasn't well stocked and didn't have any 0W-30. Also, picked up a gallon of Subaru coolant from the dealership.

Did my 2nd of three ATF drain and fills. It took me too long to remove my transmission filter. Bought 3 tools to get it off that didn't work: 1st, 2 In. To 4-1/4 In. oil filter wrench from Harbor Freight; 2nd, BOA Constrictor Aluminum Strap Wrench; 3rd, Wrench for Six Cylinder Subaru Filter. I finally drove a huge screw driver through the heart of that filter and twisted that vampire off. What a PITA. Then installed a new Subaru AT filter and 5 quarts of Subaru HP ATF. Next, drained the old oil and installed the M1 AFE 0W-30. After completing this, my wife commandeered the car.

Tomorrow, I'll do a few flushes with distilled water and then I'll load the system with the Subaru coolant.

We now have a house full of guests so, my car maintenance will be slow going.

Thanks again for all the input. It really helps.

Sounds like a good plan! I'd like to see a UOA of the Mobil 1 compared to Castrol 0w-30 (GC). Two very different oils in the same range. I'll stay tuned!

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Soharu
Guys - I ultimately went with M1 AFE 0W-30. Picked up two 5.1 quart containers from Walmart. Wanted to try PP but the store wasn't well stocked and didn't have any 0W-30. Also, picked up a gallon of Subaru coolant from the dealership.


Great choice! I use M1 0w-30 in my high mileage vehicle that originally called for 5w-30. I didn't mention a brand name because that often causes needless debate, but no one can argue with the value of a jug of M1 at Walmart. PP or PU are also great choices.

HF

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: Soharu
Wanted to try PP but the store wasn't well stocked and didn't have any 0W-30.


You won't find any; it doesn't exist.

 

[Thermo1223]

Don't forget the front & rear diffs too! Good gear oil will go a long way to keeping them alive.

 

[Soharu]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Don't forget the front & rear diffs too! Good gear oil will go a long way to keeping them alive.


Thermo1223: 2 weekends ago, I changed front and rear differential fluids. Put in Red Line 57904 (75W90) Synthetic Gear Oil.

All: I also changed out the old power steering fluid and put Subaru ATF-HP in its place. So, in terms of fluids, I've changed everything except the brake fluid and the coolant.

I had to move the car this morning. After parking, I decided to check the ATF level - the area where I was working this weekend isn't level. So, I left the car running and checked it. It was okay ... So, then I decided to check the oil level ... with the car running. It seemed alarmingly low so, I put in more oil. Then, I realized my mistake - I normally check the oil level with the car off. Now, the oil level is too high. What are the potential consequences of too much oil in a car's system? After working on the car during the weekends, I put my tools in storage in New Jersey - this helps keep the peace with the wife. Should I prioritize draining the oil down to between the High and Low marks before driving the car for any significant amount of time?

Also, in terms of the coolant - the more that I read, the more that I realize that I need to be careful doing a drain and flush - I was planning on just using distilled water. Also, I'm leery of using the Subaru coolant conditioner. I've read that "stop leak" products in general can lead to pump failures.

So, what should I do about the oil situation and the coolant? Thanks.

 

[Bandito440]

Where is the oil level? If it's just a few ounces above the full line, you're fine. If you're a quart over full, you need to get some out. You could probably siphon a bit out of the dipstick tube with some tubing acquired at the hardware store if need be.

Coolant: use what was specified for that year. If the manual requires the addative, go for it. I usually do flushes with plain water until it runs clear and then add the factory coolant combo.

 

[Soharu]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Where is the oil level?


Bandito440: According to the Field Service Manual, the 2001 h6 takes ~ 6 quarts. When new, the Low and High marks on the dip stick represent 5.1 and 6.1 quarts respectively and therefore the distance between them is one quart. I'll measure the distance between these marks and use it to represent one quart. Then, I'll measure how much I'm over the High mark and I'll compare it to the one quart distance. My gut tells me that I'm more than a "quart" over so, I'll get some of the oil out one way or another. Have you ever siphoned oil out of the dipstick tube? Is there any reason to be concerned that the tubing might get stuck in there? Obviously, I won't stick the tubing down the dip stick tube while the engine is hot. My concern comes from the fact that on Saturday I used a pump to suck the Steering Fluid out of its resevoir. But, the tube's outer diameter was too large to fit into the resevoir. So, I purchased some tubing whose outer diameter would both fit into the tank and into the inner diameter of the pump's tubing. All went well and I siphoned the old fluid out of the resevoir. But, on Sunday when I was putting everything away, it took a lot of work to get the tubes apart. I'm assuming that the Subaru ATF-HP caused a reaction between the two different tubing materials causing them to stick together. Should I be concerned that the M1 AFE, the tubing and the dipstick tube could stick together? Thanks.

 

[Bandito440]

I can't imagine that motor oil would cause the tubing to adhere to the dipstick tube. I've used plain clear tubing from the hardware store for this without any problems. Of course do it with everything cold. Get it to the full mark when cold and level and you'll be in good shape.

 

[05LGTLtd]

Most Subaru's have a "notch" above the "F" "hole" indicator. between the top hole and the notch is ok, Above the notch is not. That's how the H4's are at least.

If the service manual calls for the little blue bottle of additive, use it. Subaru's are not particularly known to have water pump issues. Also Water pumps are cheaper than head gaskets. (There's a deal on Peak Global 50/50 in the Rebates/sales forum right now, not sure if that's close to you.)

 

[Soharu]

Bandito440: Thanks for the suggestion. I measured the distance between the High and Low holes in the dip stick. It is 5/8". The oil level was 7/8" above the High mark on the dip stick. So, I was probably more than a quart over. Followed your advice. Bought 10' of 1/4" OD tubing and siphoned off 1/2 a quart. I thought that I would be able to place a container below the engine level and it would "auto-siphon" but, that didn't work fast enough. So, I played the roll of the pump and just pulled out 10' worth of oil at a time. Thanks for t

05LGTltd: Thanks for the info. I'll double check the level later today and I'll see where the level is relative to the top hole and the top notch.

Thanks again.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Soharu
After working on the car during the weekends, I put my tools in storage in New Jersey - this helps keep the peace with the wife.


I understand this issue well.

My position is that a car with over 100K miles needs tools in it. Her position is clear when I find the tool box on the side of the garage.

My compromise was to leave the big rigid toolbox in the garage with the "rest" of the tools in it, and get a small collapsible nylon-canvas tool bag and put a minimal but complete set of tools in it. For example both 1/4 and 3/8 sockets but no overlap, no SAE (as appropriate for your vehicle of course), just the correct spark plug socket, a complete set of wrenches, screw drivers, fuses, bulbs, and of course vice grips, hose clamps, tie wire and duct tape. In another place I'll stash a spare oil filter, brake fluid (unopened), steering fluid, etc.

As long as she doesn't see it or have it get in the way, it is no longer a problem.

 

[Soharu]

05LGTltd: Immediately after arriving home, I turned off the car and checked my oil level. It was at the hole just above the "H" on the dip stick. I'll check it again later and measure it once the oil drains down. But, there's no "notch" in the 2001 H6 dip stick. There is are engineered twists in the dip stick but, the first one about the High mark is relatively far away. So, I'm assuming that our dip sticks are different.

HangFire: Good point about the tools, parts and fluids. I'm going to purchase what you've suggested and hide it in a napsack in our cargo box on top of the car.

All: The oil that I siphoned off is already very dark - I can't see through the 16 ounces that are in the plastic tub that I purchased to put the used oil in. While siphoning, I could see through the oil in the 1/4" OD clear plastic tubing but, it was very dark and dirty. Keep in mind, I just put it in on Saturday (four days ago). Could this be the cleaning effect that I've read that M1 AFE and other synthetic oils have on car engines? Also, if it's this dark already, should I consider swapping it out immediately? I don't mind spending the extra money if it helps the car last longer. I would have assumed that the oil should look like "new" for a while. If I do swap it now, I will submit the old oil for a UOA to get a fact based analysis and assessment. Thoughts?

 

[Bandito440]

Darkening of the oil is fine. It's doing its job; keeping dirt in suspension. The filter will trap any particles big enough to be abrasive. You are correct that there could be some cleaning going on. Stay the course and run it to 5,000, UOA, and try something else for comparison. I vote Castrol for the next fill!

 

[Soharu]

Bandito440: I'm interested in learning how oil actually functions in a vehicle. I'm assuming that the oil has a maximum carrying capacity for keeping particulate matter in suspension. I understand that it works with the car's oil filter to constantly clean the big stuff out of the oil. But, if the oil is saturated after 4 days of running with synthetic oil, I would have assumed that it would be better to change out the oil and oil filter sooner so that more particulate matter could be removed from the engine? But, that's the rub, I don't know that the oil is saturated. If I knew that it was saturated, I'd swap it out. Conversely, if I knew that it wasn't saturated, I'd keep it in. Keep in mind that I just drained and refilled the automatic transmission fluid which takes 9.8 quarts three times over 9 days to attempt to get as much of the old ATF out as possible. But, this was because you can't get all of the ATF out at one time by draining it. I was only able to get out between 5 and 6 quarts at a time.

By the way, I have 3 quarts of M1 AFE left from my 2nd 5.1 quart jug left so, I was "planning" on filling the car again with M1 AFE before I switch to an alternate synthetic. From what I read, I thought that there would be a "cleaning effect" of switching to synthetic oil but, I'm really surprised by the extent. But, I don't specifically remember checking my engine oil 3 to 4 days after changing it. So, I anticipate that the data that I will get back from the first UOA will be skewed because of the cleaning effect.

All: Do different synthetic oils clean in different ways? If so, would it be beneficial to switch sooner to a different oil to get my engine which I thought was "clean" even cleaner than M1 AFE 0W-30 would do on its own? Thoughts?

Thanks.

 

[Bandito440]

You're doing fine; the oil even in my 2013 Subaru darkens quickly after a change. This isn't an issue. Oil color is not indicative of life. Don't think of it as saturated; you'll go mad and change it weekly for the rest of your life. The filter is doing its job and the chemistry of your oil is fine. Go for 5k and get that UOA.

You don't need to go with very short intervals unless there is an issue with the motor. Do you have a reason to believe that it's sludged? How many miles are on the car? What is its maintenance history? I don't think that motor is a known sludger, and if regular oil changes have been done there shouldn't be any big problems.

Each oil has a different formula. Calcium and magnesium are how detergents show up on a UOA. Alternating oils or sticking with one... I don't think you'll see any difference as far as cleaning goes. Stick with Mobil 1 or switch, whatever is easier for you. I just happen to like the Castrol.

 

[Soharu]

Do you have a reason to believe that it's sludged? How many miles are on the car? What is its maintenance history? I don't think that motor is a known sludger, and if regular oil changes have been done there shouldn't be any big problems.

Bandito440: My wife and I bought the car brand new in 2001 and we have pretty consistently swapped the oil every 3,000 miles and it came with a 3 year, or, 36,000 mile maintenance plan which we followed in a timely manner. Except for this last oil change. When I took the car in to get our new inspection certificate, the mechanic mentioned that the cars oil is extremely low and that I should put some oil in it "yesterday". But, my wife didn't know the type of oil that the station had put in when it was last changed and some oil was showing at the bottom tip of the dip stick. Also, I was in the midst of this journey from dino oil to synthetic oil and I didn't want to randomly add some oil to other oil in the car based on what I'd read. When I finally took the oil out last weekend I only got about 3-4 quarts out of an engine that should hold 6 quarts! I was pretty alarmed when the reality sunk in. This week when I siphoned the excess oil out of the engine via the dip stick, I place the oil in a plastic container with a lid. Then I read that gas in the oil can blacken the oil quickly as well as making it smell like gas. Unfortunately, the oil that I've siphoned off smells like gas to me. But, I've never ever smelled my old oil before ... So, I'm wondering if the M1 0W-30 AFE is doing its just doing a fantastic job and cleaning engine and what I'm smelling is just grime in the oil, or, if the synthetic oil is slipping back and forth past the piston rings, or, in and along the valve stem(s) etc and getting into and out of the combustion chambers and it's taking gasoline with it. Also, 3 weeks ago I had an inner tie-rod replaced. When I asked him if there was anything else that needed servicing, he mentioned that one of the valve cover gaskets is leaking oil and that I would have to take care of this eventually. I will now take care of this sooner than later. Also, I'm considering purchasing a compression tester to check the compression levels of each cylinder - hopefully, they will all be about the same and the rings and the head gasket are fine ... Should I also consider switching to a more viscous oil? Thanks.