States that salt roads. Cars still rust as fast?

[eljefino]

Rust? Salt? Yeah, we get both.

Supposedly, the Calcium compound that the turnpike authority uses is even worse than NaCl. If I see EZ pass velcro on the windscreen I look underneath real hard. (It also means more highway miles which could be a good thing.)

 

[LeakySeals]

I have to admit that the job they do on the roads now vs years ago is remarkable. The blizzard of 78 left roads impassible for weeks, people died in their cars. Me and my dad were out on rte 495 (major highway) in our snowmobiles shuttling trapped people into surrounding houses. Recent years we had a storm that rivaled the blizzard of 78 in the amount of snow and drifting. All highways passable within hours after the storm. Local roads cleared in a day. Most storms now the sand and salt has us down to pavement, just wet a couple hours later. The tradeoff would be nice car that cant leave the driveway.

 

[AuthorEditor]

I was in Boston in the Blizzard of '78 and I used my X-C skis to good advantage getting around. The short side street I lived on got so plugged up with abandoned cars they just ignored it until the snow melted. A friend of mine couldn't move his car for a month. Up here in snow country you can get in some big jam ups during storms despite how good they are at clearing the roads. All's it takes is one accident and you can get a parking lot. We couldn't move on the NYS Thruway for nine hours one time and we had two kids in the car in child seats at the time. The worst problem was we were running out of gasoline so we couldn't run the motor for heat. Finally were able to move at around 2 in the morning and coasted into the first gas station on fumes. In any case, the moral of the story is despite the great job they do salting the roads it can't always keep up during a heavy storm, and yes it still rots out our cars. There will be a long line at every car wash on any sunny winter day.

 

[MNgopher]

It seems as though cars are doing better than they used to, but boy, do they still rust out. Used to be that after about 10 years up here, cars generally looked pretty terrible. Seems like with a little care, that is now pushed out to 15+ years for the body, assuming the paint stays in OK shape. Uncoated stuff still rusts just as fast. My' 99 F150 that I sold this year had the bottoms of its doors pretty well shot when I sold it, and it was on its second set of nerf bars that were about shot.

In the used car world we get a lot of cars marketed as "southern" meaing no salt, low rust.

My '88 Jeep Cherokee spent was in Colorado until 2002. It arrived here looking brand new. Now it looks like a 80's vehicle that's been driven in the salt for 10 years. Boo...

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Here in northern NJ they dump salt on the roads at the first sign of snow. Though I believe that corrosion protection is better now a days I still stay on top of limiting the rust. My 10 year old 2002 F-150 is in better shape than my 1989 F-150 at the same age. With the 1989 F-150 I didn't do anything to stop the rust and it showed.

Whimsey


Yes, it makes one wonder where exactly our under-water (financially) state gets the cash to dump a trillion tons of the stuff onto the roads at the mere hint/thought of a single snowflake.

Maybe our over-bloated gov (and all of the others before him, and DOT officials/buyers) gets a payola/kickback from AKZO NOBEL and all of the other suppliers of this car destroyer??

Right about now a Canuck-style winter tire, and/or chain requirement seems like a GREAT idea as an alternative.

 

[JHZR2]

Ive seen more and more brining, which probably is more cost-effective as it allows less salt to be used.

Im all for putting a LOT more liability on people if they mess up in the snow, especially if they are not "essential personnel", and teach people that they really dont need to go to the mall or the redbox if there is an ice storm. Its NJ, not Manitoba. The sun will be out tomorrow or the next day.

 

[rcy]

Originally Posted By: zyxelenator
Here at first sights of snow they "draw lines on the roads". Spray some pinkish chemical that stays on the roads and not blown away by the wind and cars. Then when snow starts, trucks will dump salt if some serious snow is on the way.


They do that where I live as well (Toronto, Ontario area). They call it 'brine'. Without Googling it, it's probably salty liquid of some kind. The benefit is it isn't thrown about by car tires after it's laid down. However, I believe it's only good for light snow/ice conditions. Anything heavy and they go way overboard with the salt.

 

[rcy]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
Yeah, cars rust out quickly by me. I'm trying to keep ahead of it on ours.

Agreed that they spread a lot out for a little flurry. I wish we'd move away from corrosive ice melters. Requiring snow tires in the winter like Quebec does might be an okay alternative. Any Canadians to report how drivers in Quebec are coping with that requirement?


I think there was already a fairly high percentage of Quebec drivers that used winter tires before the law came into effect. Higher percentage than the rest of Canada anyway.

So, not only do they make excellent poutine, but they have enough common sense to use winter tires.

 

[NateDN10]

It depends on the car. Some are just starting to show small a small rust spot or paint bubble after 10 years, and on others it's significant by that point.

 

[oilmaven]

My '96 Honda Accord has been driven for 15 or so winters (a LOT that last couple) in salt-encrusted Michigan and has NO RUST. Even the underbody still looks good with only a little surface rust on some of the bolts/hangers, etc. It also doesn't have the tell-tale Honda rust behind the rear wheel wells (I removed the rubber wheel well moldings when I got the car and add another layer of rustproofing to the lip of them each fall). You CAN avoid rust but it takes effort, time and money. The Honda has a Krown rustproofing each fall (only available in Canada and I'm about 3 hours from the nearest shop)as well as a double application of Nu Finish in the fall to all painted surfaces. I wash the car frequently in the winter...especially if the temps exceed freezing (which is when rust occurs...in the subfreezing temps the salt doesn't do any harm but will accumulate into a "plaster" on everything if not washed off before the next layer). It seems to have paid off as the car still looks great at nearly 16 years old. Most people can't be bothered with all that...they wash their car only occasionally and let the salt accumulate to the point where it can't be easily removed anymore. Moisture and warmer weather take care of the rest and they have major rust issues.

 

[Cressida]

I think we need to contact our local governments and ask them to stop some of this nonsense of salting down the roads unless it is anticipated to be well below freezing for several days in a row.

Where I live if they forecast a dusting of snow over night they will go all out and salt the roads during the night even when the temps will rise above freezing before noon the next day. How stupid is that? Only so people can drive 65+ mph in the morning - what's wrong with driving 25 mph for the day or just stay home? I don't think the company store will close down if you don't come in till noon or even the entire day.

The governmental employees like it cause they get overtime pay. I don't like it cause it ruins my car - and just how expensive does that become over time when you have to trade cars because of rust.

I don't mind going to work very early (or late or stay at home) to avoid the masses and slowing down in bad road conditions. Nevertheless, I know my two daughters never grew up on gravel roads where I learned how to keep the back end from coming around on you. If their tire traction should break loose they will probably just close their eyes and hit the gas.

 

[AuthorEditor]

Cressida: I spoke to someone in the NYS highway department and they have studied this issue a lot due to our pretty severe winters (not yet this winter). He said they use different mixes and forumulas depending on the predicted precipitation, the temperature at the time of application, the road surface temperature etc. I will say they do seem to do a pretty good job of keeping the roads clean, and it is noticeable the improvement when you drive from Vermont or Massachusetts during a storm. There is a very large cost in lost productivity etc. when commercial traffic can't move at predicted speeds. Picture something like a load of hamburger that has to be at a McDonalds at a certain time or else no burgers! Multiply that times every business and dollars add up quickly if the roads aren't clear.

 

[rslifkin]

The NYS highway dept does do a pretty good job of keeping the highways clear, although they tend to be a bit over-salted once winter really gets going. The local roads around Rochester, however, are just insane. 1/4" of snow leads to a full inch of salt dumped on every road.

 

[ueberooo]

does much of the salt end up in lake ontario or does it get recovered by the stormwater treatment?

 

[Robenstein]

Here when I worked at the Ford and Dodge dealer, we saw cars that were just 5 model years old with rust well established.

 

[MNgopher]

Salt is not removable by any stormwater treatment, and is even an issue for wastewater treatment of household sewage. All the salt being put on the road eventually ends up being mobile in the environment. We are documenting large changes in lake salinity in our region.

 

[rpn453]

Modern vehicles are pretty good at corrosion prevention, but I still wouldn't buy a used vehicle from eastern Canada or north-eastern U.S. unless the price is very, very good. With the high humidity and excessive salt usage, they will definitely be affected by rust before one from a colder, dryer climate. It's very obvious when a vehicle is from those areas. Just pop the hood on a three-year-old Easter Bunny and all the aluminum bits - even the radiator - will look corroded in a way that no local car here would look after twenty years of use. We get a lot of used eastern vehicles shipped here because resale is so low over there. They don't expect a car to last twenty years in that environment. Here, if it's not an original owner private sale, it's wise to assume it's an eastern car until you confirm otherwise.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: crw
Meanwhile, if you want safe driving conditions, salt is BY FAR the best solution. I'd much rather deal with the salt and drive on a dry road as opposed to meeting an early death on an ice covered road.


I'd rather just use real winter tires. No salt necessary. I can understand the use of that stuff in places where such driving conditions only occur occasionally though.

Here, the first couple of days during and after a big snowfall are great. Everything is clean and white and the roads are fun to drive on. Once they finally get the roads cleared and put the salt/sand/gravel mix down, it's a disgusting brown corrosive mess. But there's still always ice and snow present anyway, especially off the main roads.

 

[daves87rs]

It is a pretty hard fight, and I am pretty anal about keeping my cars clean during the winter...

Thanks to the fact the my 03 &04 Cavs are "minor" updates frpm th mid 1990s, it shows. Even some of the late 04s and 05s show signs of rust if not cared for.

Wife's 03 is starting to show signs of tust under the doors, though it is not too bad (though a small spot of rust shows on the pass due to a chip), and a little bubble spot from underneath. Underside is a little rusty, but looks pretty good for 9 MI winters. I expect the car to last another 2-3 years before the rust starts to really pick up...

Compare my wife's car to mine on the other hand, and the difference is night and day. My coupe only saw salt ONCE in nearly 8 years (blame the wife). Body is still rust gree underneath. Body is in great shape for it's age. Hopefully, it will never see salt again...Cobalt does look good for 6 MI winters, but I assume it's a matter of time.

If I buy a new car, be assured that I will have a winter beater for it....

 

[cbear]

My 03 Cavilier has rust by the passenger rear wheel well. I bought it new, but I suspect it was damaged on the lot an repaired prior to titling. The paint seems alittle off in that area.

Underneath it's starting to get ugly. Rust is under the paint. I suspect in a year or so there won't me any paint underneath.