States that salt roads. Cars still rust as fast?
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Originally Posted By: cbear
My 03 Cavilier has rust by the passenger rear wheel well. I bought it new, but I suspect it was damaged on the lot an repaired prior to titling. The paint seems alittle off in that area.
Underneath it's starting to get ugly. Rust is under the paint. I suspect in a year or so there won't me any paint underneath.
Coupe or sedan? Coupes tend to rust faster...
My 03 Cavilier has rust by the passenger rear wheel well. I bought it new, but I suspect it was damaged on the lot an repaired prior to titling. The paint seems alittle off in that area.
Underneath it's starting to get ugly. Rust is under the paint. I suspect in a year or so there won't me any paint underneath.
Coupe or sedan? Coupes tend to rust faster...
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Ive seen more and more brining, which probably is more cost-effective as it allows less salt to be used.
Im all for putting a LOT more liability on people if they mess up in the snow, especially if they are not "essential personnel", and teach people that they really dont need to go to the mall or the redbox if there is an ice storm. Its NJ, not Manitoba. The sun will be out tomorrow or the next day.
I agree.
We've had very little snow this year but they salt and spray brine even with no chance of precipitation in the forecast.
I complained about it recently to the city works department and was told "there was chance of frost over night". How much reduction in road grip results from frost vs wet roads (salt is hydroscopic) and powdered rock salt?
Salt being the toxic substance that it is (inhaling powdered salt is a know carcinogen) to the environment, vehicles and infrastracture, should be restricted to problem areas only like steap hills but otherwise banned from general use.
Winter tires today provide amazingly good grip even on glare ice.
There is no justification today for the tons of salt that are dumped on the roads today.
Ive seen more and more brining, which probably is more cost-effective as it allows less salt to be used.
Im all for putting a LOT more liability on people if they mess up in the snow, especially if they are not "essential personnel", and teach people that they really dont need to go to the mall or the redbox if there is an ice storm. Its NJ, not Manitoba. The sun will be out tomorrow or the next day.
I agree.
We've had very little snow this year but they salt and spray brine even with no chance of precipitation in the forecast.
I complained about it recently to the city works department and was told "there was chance of frost over night". How much reduction in road grip results from frost vs wet roads (salt is hydroscopic) and powdered rock salt?
Salt being the toxic substance that it is (inhaling powdered salt is a know carcinogen) to the environment, vehicles and infrastracture, should be restricted to problem areas only like steap hills but otherwise banned from general use.
Winter tires today provide amazingly good grip even on glare ice.
There is no justification today for the tons of salt that are dumped on the roads today.
From my experience, modern cars seem to hold up pretty well. My Civic is 12 years old and spent 6 years in Upstate NY, then the last 6 in the DC area. Down here they actually seem to salt more. My car is caked in salt right now (and the shoulders of some roads are white) thanks to 1 inch of snow that fell last weekend.
With that said, I only have a couple of spots of rust, mostly where a rock or something chipped the paint off. In those cases, the rust hasn't spread nearly at all. Just a dot. The worst spot is probably about 1"x1/8" on the front driver side quarter panel on the edge of the tire.
With that said, I only have a couple of spots of rust, mostly where a rock or something chipped the paint off. In those cases, the rust hasn't spread nearly at all. Just a dot. The worst spot is probably about 1"x1/8" on the front driver side quarter panel on the edge of the tire.
Originally Posted By: oilmaven
My '96 Honda Accord has been driven for 15 or so winters (a LOT that last couple) in salt-encrusted Michigan and has NO RUST. Even the underbody still looks good with only a little surface rust on some of the bolts/hangers, etc. It also doesn't have the tell-tale Honda rust behind the rear wheel wells (I removed the rubber wheel well moldings when I got the car and add another layer of rustproofing to the lip of them each fall). You CAN avoid rust but it takes effort, time and money. The Honda has a Krown rustproofing each fall (only available in Canada and I'm about 3 hours from the nearest shop)as well as a double application of Nu Finish in the fall to all painted surfaces. I wash the car frequently in the winter...especially if the temps exceed freezing (which is when rust occurs...in the subfreezing temps the salt doesn't do any harm but will accumulate into a "plaster" on everything if not washed off before the next layer). It seems to have paid off as the car still looks great at nearly 16 years old. Most people can't be bothered with all that...they wash their car only occasionally and let the salt accumulate to the point where it can't be easily removed anymore. Moisture and warmer weather take care of the rest and they have major rust issues.
You are just like me.
I do KROWN every year, and I also apply their T-40 rustproofing in other areas that see a lot of wear (wheel wells) and I wash a lot. I've never owned a rusty car
My '96 Honda Accord has been driven for 15 or so winters (a LOT that last couple) in salt-encrusted Michigan and has NO RUST. Even the underbody still looks good with only a little surface rust on some of the bolts/hangers, etc. It also doesn't have the tell-tale Honda rust behind the rear wheel wells (I removed the rubber wheel well moldings when I got the car and add another layer of rustproofing to the lip of them each fall). You CAN avoid rust but it takes effort, time and money. The Honda has a Krown rustproofing each fall (only available in Canada and I'm about 3 hours from the nearest shop)as well as a double application of Nu Finish in the fall to all painted surfaces. I wash the car frequently in the winter...especially if the temps exceed freezing (which is when rust occurs...in the subfreezing temps the salt doesn't do any harm but will accumulate into a "plaster" on everything if not washed off before the next layer). It seems to have paid off as the car still looks great at nearly 16 years old. Most people can't be bothered with all that...they wash their car only occasionally and let the salt accumulate to the point where it can't be easily removed anymore. Moisture and warmer weather take care of the rest and they have major rust issues.
You are just like me.
I do KROWN every year, and I also apply their T-40 rustproofing in other areas that see a lot of wear (wheel wells) and I wash a lot. I've never owned a rusty car
Frost alone can cause substantial traction issues on certain road surfaces, namely bridge decks. Thus the preventative application of materials there when frost is in the forecast. We do so here using a mag chloride solution applied by a tank mounted on a trailer behind a stake body F450. Long term history tells us where it needs to go - from accident records and institutional knowledge.
Until the consumer can be convinced that the investment in snow tires is cheaper, the demand for road salt will continue to prevail. On the service provider side, we have extensive manuals on how to apply, when to apply, how much to apply, etc,,, along with calibrated spreaders and inventories after every event. We've reduced our salt application rates by nearly half with no apparent drop in levels of service by better prodict selection and smart application.
Even in a cold state like MN, I am looked at like I am from mars when I talk about my snow tires. Everyone I have convinced that they are worth the investment has been shocked after buying them, and now swear by them like I do.
Until the consumer can be convinced that the investment in snow tires is cheaper, the demand for road salt will continue to prevail. On the service provider side, we have extensive manuals on how to apply, when to apply, how much to apply, etc,,, along with calibrated spreaders and inventories after every event. We've reduced our salt application rates by nearly half with no apparent drop in levels of service by better prodict selection and smart application.
Even in a cold state like MN, I am looked at like I am from mars when I talk about my snow tires. Everyone I have convinced that they are worth the investment has been shocked after buying them, and now swear by them like I do.
Since this winter has been mild they are dumping tons of salt at the mere hint of possible snow.
Cities need to use up their budgets or they could get less money next year.
Cities need to use up their budgets or they could get less money next year.
Agree wholeheartedly with trying to curb the use of salt for slick roads. Not only does it take a good chunk out of a city's budget (especially when the snow really piles up), it can wear out the under-carriages of cars over time if not properly cleaned off. And if below freezing temps carry on for weeks, trying to clean off the snow makes it even harder.
I've read a few articles on beet juice substitutes for salt, and not only is it budget-friendly for the city, the few reports suggest it won't stain the car. Granted, the effectiveness isn't as swift as salt, but it's still able to break down the ice. Here's a snippet of the article: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/01/12/dayton-ohio-beet-juice-snow-ice-roads
I've read a few articles on beet juice substitutes for salt, and not only is it budget-friendly for the city, the few reports suggest it won't stain the car. Granted, the effectiveness isn't as swift as salt, but it's still able to break down the ice. Here's a snippet of the article: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/01/12/dayton-ohio-beet-juice-snow-ice-roads
Kestas
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Salt being the toxic substance that it is (inhaling powdered salt is a know carcinogen) to the environment, vehicles and infrastracture, should be restricted to problem areas only like steap hills but otherwise banned from general use.
I don't buy that. This is counterintuitive. What about all the time I spend by the ocean, and the people who live in coastal areas? Are we ruining our health? Is there wholesale reports of cancer among these people? Plus, our bodies are salty by nature. Alarmism.
Salt being the toxic substance that it is (inhaling powdered salt is a know carcinogen) to the environment, vehicles and infrastracture, should be restricted to problem areas only like steap hills but otherwise banned from general use.
I don't buy that. This is counterintuitive. What about all the time I spend by the ocean, and the people who live in coastal areas? Are we ruining our health? Is there wholesale reports of cancer among these people? Plus, our bodies are salty by nature. Alarmism.
cars still rust out, but not as fast. they're usually all used up by the time they're rusted out. that being said I'm a big fan of krown and rustcheck as well as a lot of carwashes in the winter time.
I just returned from a trip to Detroit (1,000+ total miles) with the Honda. I washed the salt from the car while I was there but the roads had been salted after a mild accumulation in the "northern lower peninsula". The car is COVERED in salt again (will be heading to the car wash today as temps even up here are predicted in the mid-30's over the next few days). The worst is I'm quickly scrubbing the tread off the winter tires I installed in December...don't think I needed to use them more than twice all winter. I considered removing them to save them but we all know what will happen if I do that...3 back-to-back blizzards at least. BTW the car ran great and delivered 27-28 mpg on the highway runs (not bad for a 16 year old car with a V6).
Certain car have poor rust protection(mazda) but, most cars can go at least 10 years before starting to rust and then even longer in many cases where the vehicle starts to get cancer and is unsafe due to structural damage from rust.
In my early years of driving(60's/70's), vehicles would start to rust as early as 2 years(Ford) to about 3-5 years for almost everything else. They were terrable here in Western NY State
In my early years of driving(60's/70's), vehicles would start to rust as early as 2 years(Ford) to about 3-5 years for almost everything else. They were terrable here in Western NY State
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I have a 12-year old Corolla and a 14 year old Chevy pickup (both bought new) that have lived through as many saltly Wisconsin winters. The Corolla has a miniscule rust spot started - only visible if you look for it. The pickup is a little more obvious, but touch-up paint repairable.
Contrast this to the 1976 Chevy pickup a local businessman had when I was growing up. By 1983, the box was so rusted out you could see all the way from the drivers side through the passengers side. I think he used wood 2x4s inside the box to add strength and to keep the panels from falling off.
Contrast this to the 1976 Chevy pickup a local businessman had when I was growing up. By 1983, the box was so rusted out you could see all the way from the drivers side through the passengers side. I think he used wood 2x4s inside the box to add strength and to keep the panels from falling off.
Dad Just Found 2 dime-quarter sized rust patches on the underside of his 05 Ford Freestyle.
both seemed to be under footwells (drivers, and around a rubber grommet in the drivers side middle row seat) Seems to be rusting from the inside of the vehicle out. (water/salt from shoes, etc)
Car was Originally sold in CA(not sure what part), wasn't titled in OH until about 6 mo before he bought it in mid '08. (thank you carfax!)
what really amazed me looking under the car, was that while everything was painted, there was absolutely NO undercoating. anywhere. NONE.
My '05 Neon however has factory undercoating in strategic locations.( originally sold in TX, I "imported" it to OH in feb '10)
Both built same year in IL (Freestyle - Chicago, Neon - Belvedere) both have roughly 80k mi.
both seemed to be under footwells (drivers, and around a rubber grommet in the drivers side middle row seat) Seems to be rusting from the inside of the vehicle out. (water/salt from shoes, etc)
Car was Originally sold in CA(not sure what part), wasn't titled in OH until about 6 mo before he bought it in mid '08. (thank you carfax!)
what really amazed me looking under the car, was that while everything was painted, there was absolutely NO undercoating. anywhere. NONE.
My '05 Neon however has factory undercoating in strategic locations.( originally sold in TX, I "imported" it to OH in feb '10)
Both built same year in IL (Freestyle - Chicago, Neon - Belvedere) both have roughly 80k mi.
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One thing to watch for is brake line corrosion, can't see it, especially on some cars where the break line is hidden above the rear axle/ had a 2000 Buick rear line corrode, the whole line was a rusty mess. never trusted it after that and sold it
Originally Posted By: Spector
One thing to watch for is brake line corrosion, can't see it, especially on some cars where the break line is hidden above the rear axle/ had a 2000 Buick rear line corrode, the whole line was a rusty mess. never trusted it after that and sold it
That is true. I often have bent and flared new brake tubing for cars exposed to road salt.
Any steel tubing can have that problem.
I often have to replace fuel system tubing as well.
Ford would often use a painted steel accumulator in the A/C system, and those would rust through often, whereas nearly everyone else used aluminum which would simply tarnish when exposed to road salt.
One thing to watch for is brake line corrosion, can't see it, especially on some cars where the break line is hidden above the rear axle/ had a 2000 Buick rear line corrode, the whole line was a rusty mess. never trusted it after that and sold it
That is true. I often have bent and flared new brake tubing for cars exposed to road salt.
Any steel tubing can have that problem.
I often have to replace fuel system tubing as well.
Ford would often use a painted steel accumulator in the A/C system, and those would rust through often, whereas nearly everyone else used aluminum which would simply tarnish when exposed to road salt.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Salt being the toxic substance that it is (inhaling powdered salt is a know carcinogen) to the environment, vehicles and infrastracture, should be restricted to problem areas only like steap hills but otherwise banned from general use.
I don't buy that. This is counterintuitive. What about all the time I spend by the ocean, and the people who live in coastal areas? Are we ruining our health? Is there wholesale reports of cancer among these people? Plus, our bodies are salty by nature. Alarmism.
When you're by the ocean, you're not breathing-in dry salt dust. For all the time that a salted road isn't wet, the tires of every vehicle is raising salt dust into the air.
But around here it's brutal. I just today saw a 4th gen Lexus ES with a rusting rear quarter panel.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Salt being the toxic substance that it is (inhaling powdered salt is a know carcinogen) to the environment, vehicles and infrastracture, should be restricted to problem areas only like steap hills but otherwise banned from general use.
I don't buy that. This is counterintuitive. What about all the time I spend by the ocean, and the people who live in coastal areas? Are we ruining our health? Is there wholesale reports of cancer among these people? Plus, our bodies are salty by nature. Alarmism.
When you're by the ocean, you're not breathing-in dry salt dust. For all the time that a salted road isn't wet, the tires of every vehicle is raising salt dust into the air.
But around here it's brutal. I just today saw a 4th gen Lexus ES with a rusting rear quarter panel.
I'm split on it. Our 04 Escape has rust spots on the lips of the door and replacing the shocks found some rusted through spots in the fender well. I'm thinking the PO parked it in the garage after driving. The 02 Focus no surface rust just the suspension.. My sister never drove when it was bad.
Back when I was a kid my dads 77 GMC was a rust bucket. But that was normal for that year. 76's very little rust and 78's much better but not quite. Don't remember any others with rust.
Back when I was a kid my dads 77 GMC was a rust bucket. But that was normal for that year. 76's very little rust and 78's much better but not quite. Don't remember any others with rust.
I park my cars next to the road, and I think it does make it worse--my rotors can get quite the sheen of rust overnight if it is wet. I think the road traffic keeps the salt stirred up all the more.
I've noticed on my vw that the sheet metal underneath has held up very well. I have to wonder if oil coating non-sheet metal surfaces would do well enough.
I've also noticed rock chips suck.... As does paint defects.
I've noticed on my vw that the sheet metal underneath has held up very well. I have to wonder if oil coating non-sheet metal surfaces would do well enough.
I've also noticed rock chips suck.... As does paint defects.
I'd like to start a RustCheck or Krown business. But I know it would never succeed. people just don't care.
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