Someone at Valvoline has been taking lessons from Amsoil

[Pablo]

Just for clarity, nowhere does Amsoil say:

Fill any car with Amsoil and drive 25K.

It just isn't that simple. But it seems really easy to lob flameballs at Amsoil.

In fact, Amsoil recommends their lower quality API licensed oils for new cars when you stay within the recommended OCI.

 

[Audi Junkie]

I re-read the MaxLife bottle and "recommended for" is BS. That is an obvious device for missleading the consumer, nothing else. As good as the MaxLife ~might~ be, I won't buy it just because of the misleading statment. What is the problem with the statment "Meets XYZ spec"? That is concise, but the language I saw on M1 0w-40, an oil ACTUALLY approved by mfgs, was "Approved against". That is a definative statment as well. Too much double-speak in the industry, I am dissapointed by Valvoline.

 

[MolaKule]

Audi and others, I am not a lawyer, but it may well be that the legal beagles are in the labeling loop. (did I reallly say that?).

When you use the word "Recommended For" you are 'suggesting' it be used for that purpose; a "detached" no strings attached suggestion.

When you use the phrase "Meets XYZ spec," the FTC or some other government organization might some day step in and ask you to "prove it" with costly tests in order to keep it on the market.

 

[pscholte]

Val-vo-line, val-vo-line, I guess it will keep your engine clean,
But I won't use it 'cause it ain't green...Valvoline

 

[Jelly]

quote:

---

Originally posted by pscholte:
Val-vo-line, val-vo-line, I guess it will keep your engine clean,
But I won't use it 'cause it ain't green...Valvoline

---

And I thought I was messed up...

 

[pscholte]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jelly:

quote:

---

Originally posted by pscholte:
Val-vo-line, val-vo-line, I guess it will keep your engine clean,
But I won't use it 'cause it ain't green...Valvoline

---

And I thought I was messed up...

---

Why Jelly,

I don't think you are messed up at all...a little disheveled, maybe...

 

[Bobert]

Speaking of the green, German Castrol simply lists the specs with no preamble, such as "recommended", "approved", "meets" etc. I think that's the way all oil's should be--just list them. That way there is no room for word gymnastics.

 

[pscholte]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bobert:
...That way there is no room for word gymnastics.

---

"Word gymnastics"...I like that!

"This site is now a Word Gymnastics-free zone." ...really?

 

[Mystic]

I am really happy to see you back at this web site from time to time, pscholte. You were always one of my favorite posters. And I personally know what a cool guy you are (thanks for the GC!).

There are other people I miss here. I have not see Matt89 (I think that was what he went by). He was a liberal commentator who usually took the opposite view to me, but I really liked to debate him. He was a cool guy who could debate and not attack people personally.

 

[Last_Z]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pablo:
Just for clarity, nowhere does Amsoil say:

Fill any car with Amsoil and drive 25K.

It just isn't that simple. But it seems really easy to lob flameballs at Amsoil.

In fact, Amsoil recommends their lower quality API licensed oils for new cars when you stay within the recommended OCI.

---

P,

I ain't trying to start anything here, but the following is directly from AMSOIL's corporate website:

quote:

---

SERVICE LIFE

In personal cars and light-duty trucks with non-turbocharged gasoline engines: change the oil at 35,000-mile or one-year intervals, whichever comes first.

In turbocharged gasoline engines and occasionally used gasoline engines: change the oil at intervals up to three times longer recommended by the engine manufacturer or six months, whichever comes first.

In high performance and racing engines: specified by Owner Experience/Oil Analysis.

Marine four-cycle gasoline engines and infrequently used automotive four-cycle gasoline engines: drain oil at intervals up to three times longer than those recommended by the engine manufacturer, or one year, whichever comes first.

In fleet and industrial engines: drain oil at intervals up to two times longer than recommended by the manufacturer, or six months, whichever comes first.

AMSOIL Oil Filters should be changed at 12,500-mile or six-month intervals (whichever comes first) in gasoline engines. If a Hastings or other filter is used, filter should be changed at manufacturer's recommendation

---

I bolded out the specific point I made in my previous post. So, they recommed 35k mile intervals or 1 year, which is a extremely long time to run an oil. It might be very hard for someone to drive 35k miles a year, but some people do drive 15, 20 and even 25k miles a year......and according to Amsoil, you just fill up and go!
They do mention the need to change their filter at 12.5k miles or roughly halfway, but that contradicts the first line since it doesn't mention anything about filters.
Would you go that many miles and continue running the old oil after a filter change and oil top off; for another 17.5k miles?
I'm sure Amsoil is a very good oil and probably the best as far as extended OCIs go, but their marketing department is pushing the BS envelope a bit.
One last thing.....the recommended OCI above is for their S2K 0W-30 oil, which is supposed to be the best PCMO they have.

Rick

 

[Pablo]

I fail to see any inconsistancy. If you can do the miles in less than 1 year, and change the filter as required....then it's not "fill and drive". You made my point exactly. Change filter and top up.

I did do a 20K OCI in 13 months with the 25K ASL 5W-30....but that was an unusual time in my life. Now it's maybe 12K per year. Do a search for my 20K interval. The numbers weren't so bad and the oil could have gone 25K.

EDIT => 20K on ASL

[ April 12, 2004, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: Pablo ]

 

[Ken2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Donald:
Amsoil warranties the engine if their oil (and filter) causes damage. No one else does that, whether they are API certified of not. What more would you like Amsoil to do?

---

But, who wants to determine what caused the damage. If your engine breaks during the warranty period you just want it fixed. You don't want to be in the middle of a blame game.

Amsoil's warranty says,
"THE WARRANTY MAY NOT BE EXTENDED TO COVER: 8. Failure of equipment due to a pre-existing condition that is unrelated to the use of AMSOIL."
"AMSOIL RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REJECT A WARRANTY CLAIM FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS: 9. Failure was the result of an OEM defect."

Read the rest of http://www.amsoil.com/warranty.htm it puts the engine owner in a position of supplying 8 oz. oil samples, notifying Amsoil within 30 days, the batch number from the quart oil bottle you threw away 11 months ago, the damaged parts, and other requirements...and all you want is your engine fixed.


Ken

[ April 12, 2004, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: Ken2 ]

 

[Last_Z]

P,

Amsoil says you can go 35k miles on a fill of 0W-30. They do, at the bottom say you should change the filter , if you are using theirs, but they don't relate that to the oil . What I'm trying to say here is that this sort of language is double talk. The 3MP study has shown that in just 6k miles and with 1k mile top offs, Amsoil's TBN take a hit. I can guarantee you Amsoil 0W-30 will not last 30k miles with just a filter change halfway through in my car.....quite possibly (or impossibly) in any car.

EDIT: BTW, this is from your own post:

-1996 Volvo 850 wagon normally aspirated transverse mounted 2.5 liter L5
-Sump capacity 6.8 qts (approx) - will take 7 qts and not be over the full mark.
-Starting Oil filter, Mann. 5K miles.
5K-10K Amsoil oil filter.
10K-15K Mann oil filter.
15k-20K Amsoil oil filter.
-Make-up oil approx 3.5 quarts.

That's a heck of a lot of oil capacity in a relatively small engine....a lot of make up and filter changes

[ April 12, 2004, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: Last_Z ]

 

[Donald]

Amsoil warranties the engine if their oil (and filter) causes damage. No one else does that, whether they are API certified of not. What more would you like Amsoil to do?

 

[Mike_dup1]

Its funny that so many have negative things to say about a product they don't or won't use. I suppose the millions of Amsoil users dating back to 1973 are just crazy. The very first can of Amsoil I ever had said "25,000 miles or 1 Year". I did that and never had any engine related problems in any vehicle. Yet people who don't have the experience in exteneded drains offer opinions based on what they read or interperate. 25,000 miles or 1 yr OCI are nothing new. Here is a image of the first oil cans from 1973. While the people in this arguement have changed, the rhetoric has not.

[ April 12, 2004, 04:44 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]

 

[FowVay]

I'm still trying to figure out how Amsoil meets/exceeds MB 229.4. It truly must be some good stuff because nobody else on the planet can meet this standard. Of course,, there is surely no way to prove that it doesn't meet this standard either.

edit for spelling

[ April 12, 2004, 06:34 AM: Message edited by: FowVay ]

 

[Pablo]

On the 3MP study, the TBN is stable now and the wear metals are about 50% that of M1, and quite low. (Please don't leave out facts)

Sure in my car I changed the filter every 5K. Maybe I shouldn't have, just to prove a point, but I was trying to follow the part about changing the filter close to Volvo's recommendation. This engine is NOT easy on oil. My turbo OCI is 10K per Amsoil. I'm coming up on 8K miles. No filter change.

People (mostly sales guys, etc) have gone 35K on Series 2000. It's not impossible.

On the warranty, I think there HAS to be language like that. How can an oil company be responsible for a latent (or otherwise) engine defect?

Lastly - what is MB 229.4?

 

[Matt89]

Mystic, have no fear...I am lurking in the background.

Actually, I've been working very hard these days so I can pay the taxman to support all my liberal agendas

To tell the truth I think my day to day self is more conservative (practically speaking) than most of the points I argue on here. To take care of your daily duties you have to be. I just like to keep different viewpoints alive...it seems like being a 'good person' is a lot more complicated these days then maybe it was even a few years ago. I think it makes us all a little sharper in the brain to question the conventional wisdom, even if we realize in the end that it was right all along.

Likewise, I appreciate yours and pscholte's posts. He's a funny guy and these days we NEED that. You consistently bring up interesting topics! I've appreciated the heated debates with guys like SBC350gearhead. I hope guys don't take it personally when we debate all these 'big issues'.

Now back to work!

 

[TooSlick]

The formulation chemistry Amsoil uses meets or exceeds the performance specifications listed on the bottles, period. Their 5w-30, 10w-30 are even using an API approved level of phosphorus, ie < 1000 ppm, in the current formulations. So that red herring doesn't exist to kick around any more.

No dealership will ever question your use of Amsoil in an engine under warranty. In fact, the local VW/Audi dealer installs the Amsoil in my 2002 Audi TT, since I have free maintenance for the first 50,000 miles ....A number of my local customers also buy oil from me and have it changed at local dealerships in newer vehicles.

If you are running once a year drains w/ Amsoil in an engine under warranty, I'd also support this with an annual oil analysis. Oil analysis is considered legal proof that the oil is still servicable ....The main reason for doing this is to make sure you aren't getting abnormal contamination from coolant, fuel or dirt and that the engine is running efficiently. I can determine the latter by looking at oxidation/nitration levels and fuel dilution.

If anyone has questions about a warranty situation like this, please contact me off-line. I'll be glad to give you a call and discuss it ....

Tooslick
www.lubedealer.com/Dixie_Synthetics

 

[Audi Junkie]

I just have to say the mid-service filter changes are a crock. Why someone would do the unsavoury job of changing a filter without dumping the oil is beyond me. Oil is cheap, wouldn't fresh Chevron Supreme protect better than Amsoil with 20k on it? (aside from turbo or artic apps) Personally, I'd select an oil that was "compatible" with the service life of the filter. 10,000 miles, max.