BMW and Porsche no anti seize and aluminium heads of course.
Some car makers say NO antiseize on spark plugs?
- Thread starter Vizzy
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I like antisieze on plugs. I use the Caterpillar brand.
When turning plugs out of a aluminum head and it sounds like squeaking or fingers on a chalkboard, that is getting close to galling.
Stainless plug bases & "special coatings" don't impress me much. Some of these plugs have an 2" of fine threads on them.
Its difficult to believe using it could cause a contact ground issue if properly installed.
When turning plugs out of a aluminum head and it sounds like squeaking or fingers on a chalkboard, that is getting close to galling.
Stainless plug bases & "special coatings" don't impress me much. Some of these plugs have an 2" of fine threads on them.
Its difficult to believe using it could cause a contact ground issue if properly installed.
Originally Posted By: willix
When turning plugs out of a aluminum head and it sounds like squeaking or fingers on a chalkboard, that is getting close to galling.
I never use anti-seize, and I usually change my plugs every 20-40k. Every time I removed the plugs, they always sounded like "nails on a chalkboard" for at least a few turns. It is difficult to believe that 20-40k miles is enough for galling to occur.
When turning plugs out of a aluminum head and it sounds like squeaking or fingers on a chalkboard, that is getting close to galling.
I never use anti-seize, and I usually change my plugs every 20-40k. Every time I removed the plugs, they always sounded like "nails on a chalkboard" for at least a few turns. It is difficult to believe that 20-40k miles is enough for galling to occur.
I don't understand what relationship miles driven has to do with aluminum threads galling.
time and temperature cycles.
Also, Dad's R16 let some of the clear end of the plug threads protrude into the chamber. To try to back all of that out had carbon/lead junk getting worked through the threads, so you'd do a sort of reverse tap. 1 turn out, 1/4 turn back in.
Thinking back, leaded fuels had less sticky plugs overall (we were leaded until 1987).
Also, Dad's R16 let some of the clear end of the plug threads protrude into the chamber. To try to back all of that out had carbon/lead junk getting worked through the threads, so you'd do a sort of reverse tap. 1 turn out, 1/4 turn back in.
Thinking back, leaded fuels had less sticky plugs overall (we were leaded until 1987).
I've heard a lot of people here on BITOG say that aluminum is used in the nice shiny silver-looking type of antiseize (which works quite well IMO). Anybody got any proof of that?
'Cause I have my doubts. Seems to me that aluminum is the LAST metal you'd want to use in antiseize. Maybe tin? Antimony? Lead? Definitely some nickel.
'Cause I have my doubts. Seems to me that aluminum is the LAST metal you'd want to use in antiseize. Maybe tin? Antimony? Lead? Definitely some nickel.
I understand & know exposed base & a thread or 2 have deposits and that mostly cuts clean without the back off relief method. My point is you don't need a spark plug for galling to occur in a threaded fastener in general. Aluminum is prone to galling and antisieze prevents this.
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Kestas
Staff member
Originally Posted By: willix
I don't understand what relationship miles driven has to do with aluminum threads galling.
If you've ever studied diffusion of metals at the graduate level you'd appreciate what can happen to metals. Like Shannow said, time and temperature affect metal interfaces. They tend to bond.
I don't understand what relationship miles driven has to do with aluminum threads galling.
If you've ever studied diffusion of metals at the graduate level you'd appreciate what can happen to metals. Like Shannow said, time and temperature affect metal interfaces. They tend to bond.
Originally Posted By: onion
I don't care who makes the engine. If it has aluminum heads, you'd be crazy to put in plugs with no antiseize.
In that case, you had better build a new wing on the mental hospital for me and all the people I know who use no anti-seize with aluminum heads.
I don't care who makes the engine. If it has aluminum heads, you'd be crazy to put in plugs with no antiseize.
In that case, you had better build a new wing on the mental hospital for me and all the people I know who use no anti-seize with aluminum heads.
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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: onion
I don't care who makes the engine. If it has aluminum heads, you'd be crazy to put in plugs with no antiseize.
In that case, you had better build a new wing on the mental hospital for me and all the people I know who use no anti-seize with aluminum heads.
Do you leave them in up to 100k miles or 5+ years? It's kinda what I tried to do with "how many use their long life coolant to its limit" thread. People who don't run into those problems tend to service the item at the rate that produces no problems anyway. I did ask the wrong question in my survey. I needed to ask how many change it out early.
I'll speculate that most change their plugs every other year.
Originally Posted By: onion
I don't care who makes the engine. If it has aluminum heads, you'd be crazy to put in plugs with no antiseize.
In that case, you had better build a new wing on the mental hospital for me and all the people I know who use no anti-seize with aluminum heads.
Do you leave them in up to 100k miles or 5+ years? It's kinda what I tried to do with "how many use their long life coolant to its limit" thread. People who don't run into those problems tend to service the item at the rate that produces no problems anyway. I did ask the wrong question in my survey. I needed to ask how many change it out early.
I'll speculate that most change their plugs every other year.
I've been using this stuff for the past four or five years. It's a runny liquid carrier with graphite (?) in suspension. I didn't know there was an anti-seize specifically made for spark plugs.
I found it after I ordered an Aircraft Spruce catalog when I was into fasteners.
I now use the paste stuff only for fasteners.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/antiseize.php
I found it after I ordered an Aircraft Spruce catalog when I was into fasteners.
I now use the paste stuff only for fasteners.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/antiseize.php
Ford has had issues here and in Europe with spark plug seizure.
I know when i bought my son his Ford Ka the main thing the dealer told me to look for was seized plugs.After 2 years they can be totally seized and Ford recommends early removal and the use of anti seize.
Funny how quick manufacturers change their recommendation when they have to start doing extensive and expensive repairs under warranty.
Check out the removal tips from the article.Surprisingly Ford recommends Kroil and anti seize.
Ford Spark Plug
edit to repair link
I know when i bought my son his Ford Ka the main thing the dealer told me to look for was seized plugs.After 2 years they can be totally seized and Ford recommends early removal and the use of anti seize.
Funny how quick manufacturers change their recommendation when they have to start doing extensive and expensive repairs under warranty.
Check out the removal tips from the article.Surprisingly Ford recommends Kroil and anti seize.
Ford Spark Plug
edit to repair link
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I have used anti seize for years on plug threads.
Then I read on a forum here in SA that the anti seize insulated the plug causing it to get hot and pinging can occur?
Or is that just a lot of nonsense?
Then I read on a forum here in SA that the anti seize insulated the plug causing it to get hot and pinging can occur?
Or is that just a lot of nonsense?
If used in small amounts on the threads only 100% nonsense.I'm thinking if you gave the things a bath in the stuff it could cause some problems.
Originally Posted By: GTO52
I have used anti seize for years on plug threads.
Then I read on a forum here in SA that the anti seize insulated the plug causing it to get hot and pinging can occur?
Or is that just a lot of nonsense?
That's the main reason I've heard not to use anti-seize. I read somewhere a while back that Mercedes says not to use anti-seize for this very reason. It insulates the plug from the cylinder head reducing heat transfer, and making the cylinder run hotter and produce detonation.
I have used anti seize for years on plug threads.
Then I read on a forum here in SA that the anti seize insulated the plug causing it to get hot and pinging can occur?
Or is that just a lot of nonsense?
That's the main reason I've heard not to use anti-seize. I read somewhere a while back that Mercedes says not to use anti-seize for this very reason. It insulates the plug from the cylinder head reducing heat transfer, and making the cylinder run hotter and produce detonation.
NGK too says don't use antiseize. I got my original NGK's out from the engine after 150K miles (and 10 years) with no problem on both the cars with aluminium heads. They were never touched before.
The NGK threads have special coating. This is all on their web site if you are interested.
- Vikas
The NGK threads have special coating. This is all on their web site if you are interested.
- Vikas
Kestas
Staff member
Trav, I read through the article. To clarify, it seems that the antisieze recommendation comes not from Ford, but from the article's author, Dennis Bandy.
Kestas, i believe he got his information from Ford TSB 06-15-2
In this TSB ford list the part numbers as..
XL-2 Motorcraft High Temperature Nickel Anti-Seize Lubricant
AeroKroil Obtain through www.kanolabs.com or
by calling 1-800-311-3374 (orange aerosol can)
Edit spelling
In this TSB ford list the part numbers as..
XL-2 Motorcraft High Temperature Nickel Anti-Seize Lubricant
AeroKroil Obtain through www.kanolabs.com or
by calling 1-800-311-3374 (orange aerosol can)
Edit spelling
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