Solid choice 0w-20?
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I nabbed a boatload of 0W-20 oil from the Autozone clearance this year. I'll be running QS/RGT/Valvoline ME for the next two years in my Mitsubishi Outlander with the V6 engine.
Jackson_Slugger
$50 Site Donor 2022
^^ What he said, use RGT 0W-20 (assuming it meets the spec) with the ongoing rebate and check AutoZone if you have any near you...
NAPA 0W20 synthetic on sale.
Originally Posted by JLTD
You are correct, the 20 grade oil is due to CAFE; the original specification for the 3.6 Pentastar was 5w-30 (which is what I'd use)
That said, JustN89 is correct, to meet 0w-20 all the oils will be pretty good. What's your budget for oil?
The 3.6 in the new JL Wrangler is the Pentastar Upgrade and it was never specified for 5w30 or even 5w20. 0w20 was specified from the start, in the 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee, where it first appeared, and Jeep has said that specifically the valve train requires 0w20. We can debate all day whether that's true or not, but I know this: The 0w20 oils I've run have performed very well. I've had the factory fill, Mobil 1 EP, AP, and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum and all UOA's came back fine. The Jeep runs great, and the Mobil 1 AP survived a big trip to Moab with slow speed (1-2mph) rock crawling in hot conditions without any apparent negative impact. I've got 26k on the Jeep now, and it currently has Mobil 1 AP in it with 5k on it, moving toward probably an 8k or 8.5k OCI.
I don't think you can go wrong with Pennzoil Platinum, Mobil 1 EP/AP, or any major brand of 0w20.
I personally like to run a higher PAO content, so I go with M1 AP. It has a higher flash point than any 5w30 I've seen, along with a ridiculously low pour point. I believe it is a very high performance oil and that a great deal of engineering went into its development. EP performs very closely to it, as well.
That said, I doubt 5w30 would have an ill effect on this engine. The only question I would have is why? I personally don't believe there is a benefit. While I do believe the move to thinner oils was motivated by fuel economy, I believe the oil technology has kept pace. The average age of vehicles on the road is higher than ever. You'd think the move toward thinner oils would cause the opposite to happen. In fact, think about how much engineering of cars since the 1970's has been in the pursuit of fuel efficiency and cleanliness. Yet probably the worst car in the US market today would outlast the very best from the few years before emissions controls and fuel economy standards. Advancements in oil technology, I believe, has made today's 0w20 a far better oil in every way than the 5w30's or 10w30's we ran in our cars in the 80's.
My 2008 Jeep JK has run 90% of its 138k miles on 5w20. I remember everyone telling me that 5w20 would wear that engine out prematurely and that I should run 5w30 or even thicker oil or I'd be sorry. Well, the engine runs like new. (I did do a couple of OCI's with 10w30 and even 0w40 to combat oil consumption, but they didn't really make any difference. The Chrysler 3.8 is a heavy drinker, no matter what. And it does just fine on 5w20. I know a guy with an 07 on a Jeep forum with one with 290k on it and he ran 5w20 from day 1. His uses oil just like mine, but runs great.)
Run 0w20 with confidence!
You are correct, the 20 grade oil is due to CAFE; the original specification for the 3.6 Pentastar was 5w-30 (which is what I'd use)
That said, JustN89 is correct, to meet 0w-20 all the oils will be pretty good. What's your budget for oil?
The 3.6 in the new JL Wrangler is the Pentastar Upgrade and it was never specified for 5w30 or even 5w20. 0w20 was specified from the start, in the 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee, where it first appeared, and Jeep has said that specifically the valve train requires 0w20. We can debate all day whether that's true or not, but I know this: The 0w20 oils I've run have performed very well. I've had the factory fill, Mobil 1 EP, AP, and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum and all UOA's came back fine. The Jeep runs great, and the Mobil 1 AP survived a big trip to Moab with slow speed (1-2mph) rock crawling in hot conditions without any apparent negative impact. I've got 26k on the Jeep now, and it currently has Mobil 1 AP in it with 5k on it, moving toward probably an 8k or 8.5k OCI.
I don't think you can go wrong with Pennzoil Platinum, Mobil 1 EP/AP, or any major brand of 0w20.
I personally like to run a higher PAO content, so I go with M1 AP. It has a higher flash point than any 5w30 I've seen, along with a ridiculously low pour point. I believe it is a very high performance oil and that a great deal of engineering went into its development. EP performs very closely to it, as well.
That said, I doubt 5w30 would have an ill effect on this engine. The only question I would have is why? I personally don't believe there is a benefit. While I do believe the move to thinner oils was motivated by fuel economy, I believe the oil technology has kept pace. The average age of vehicles on the road is higher than ever. You'd think the move toward thinner oils would cause the opposite to happen. In fact, think about how much engineering of cars since the 1970's has been in the pursuit of fuel efficiency and cleanliness. Yet probably the worst car in the US market today would outlast the very best from the few years before emissions controls and fuel economy standards. Advancements in oil technology, I believe, has made today's 0w20 a far better oil in every way than the 5w30's or 10w30's we ran in our cars in the 80's.
My 2008 Jeep JK has run 90% of its 138k miles on 5w20. I remember everyone telling me that 5w20 would wear that engine out prematurely and that I should run 5w30 or even thicker oil or I'd be sorry. Well, the engine runs like new. (I did do a couple of OCI's with 10w30 and even 0w40 to combat oil consumption, but they didn't really make any difference. The Chrysler 3.8 is a heavy drinker, no matter what. And it does just fine on 5w20. I know a guy with an 07 on a Jeep forum with one with 290k on it and he ran 5w20 from day 1. His uses oil just like mine, but runs great.)
Run 0w20 with confidence!
Originally Posted by BLND1
Originally Posted by PimTac
Any major brand.....
Definitely.
I believe FCA specs 6-quarts - the Havoline smart change 6-qt box seems like a good candidate from a value perspective.
5 quarts in the Pentastar Upgrade, not 6. Dealers across the country have been making this mistake and overfilling them.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Any major brand.....
Definitely.
I believe FCA specs 6-quarts - the Havoline smart change 6-qt box seems like a good candidate from a value perspective.
5 quarts in the Pentastar Upgrade, not 6. Dealers across the country have been making this mistake and overfilling them.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Any major brand.....
My opinion is it would be very hard to go wrong with this philosophy.
Any major brand.....
My opinion is it would be very hard to go wrong with this philosophy.
Originally Posted by IndyFan
Originally Posted by BLND1
Originally Posted by PimTac
Any major brand.....
Definitely.
I believe FCA specs 6-quarts - the Havoline smart change 6-qt box seems like a good candidate from a value perspective.
5 quarts in the Pentastar Upgrade, not 6. Dealers across the country have been making this mistake and overfilling them.
Well, then sky is the limit.
Originally Posted by BLND1
Originally Posted by PimTac
Any major brand.....
Definitely.
I believe FCA specs 6-quarts - the Havoline smart change 6-qt box seems like a good candidate from a value perspective.
5 quarts in the Pentastar Upgrade, not 6. Dealers across the country have been making this mistake and overfilling them.
Well, then sky is the limit.
How cold does it get where you live ... ?
The first number in the oil grade description is the WINTER rating, not weight or viscosity.
Simply put, the 0w oil will work better at EXTREME cold temps. And by extreme, think -40*F ...
The 5w oil will work fine down to about -20*F.
Otherwise, your engine won't know the difference between a 5w20 and a 0w20. Both are the same viscosity when hot, and very close in viscosity all the way down to about -20*F, where the 0w starts to become LESS THICK than the 5w oil. Note I didn't say " thinner ... " because at those temps, neither grade is " thin ".
The first number in the oil grade description is the WINTER rating, not weight or viscosity.
Simply put, the 0w oil will work better at EXTREME cold temps. And by extreme, think -40*F ...
The 5w oil will work fine down to about -20*F.
Otherwise, your engine won't know the difference between a 5w20 and a 0w20. Both are the same viscosity when hot, and very close in viscosity all the way down to about -20*F, where the 0w starts to become LESS THICK than the 5w oil. Note I didn't say " thinner ... " because at those temps, neither grade is " thin ".
Originally Posted by Jackson_Slugger
^^ What he said, use RGT 0W-20 (assuming it meets the spec) with the ongoing rebate and check AutoZone if you have any near you...
Unless the rebate has been extended for a DIY purchase, the offer expired on 12/31/19 If you have it changed at a participating location you can get up to $10.00 of your next change, valid offer until 1/31/20
Shell Oil Rebate/Savings Offers
^^ What he said, use RGT 0W-20 (assuming it meets the spec) with the ongoing rebate and check AutoZone if you have any near you...
Unless the rebate has been extended for a DIY purchase, the offer expired on 12/31/19 If you have it changed at a participating location you can get up to $10.00 of your next change, valid offer until 1/31/20
Shell Oil Rebate/Savings Offers
Unless it's changed, you need to meet spec MS6395(?) "taxi cab test". There are not a lot of oils meeting this. The thickest, at the time I decided on what to run in our 2016 which specs 5w20, was Castrol Edge Titanium EP.
My logic is I want the thickest oil that meets specs until warranty is out, because as stated this engine started out as a 5w30 engine.
My logic is I want the thickest oil that meets specs until warranty is out, because as stated this engine started out as a 5w30 engine.
Again, just to be clear, the 2017 and up Grand Cherokee and the 2018+ JL (Not 2018 JK, but JL) Wrangler, and the Gladiator, 100% for certain, have the Pentastar Upgrade that specifies 5 quarts of 0w20. It never had, even overseas, a weight specification greater than 20. The previous generations of the Pentastar, which may still be showing up in some new FCA models, specifies 6 quarts of 0w20, but has in the past or overseas specified up to a 5w30. (Overseas, it could have even gone heavier, but I've not seen that. 5w30 was a sure thing, though, so no doubt that weight would be perfectly suited for them.)
The newer Pentastar Upgrade has confused the heck out of even the dealerships, many of whose techs have gone so far as to argue with customers who knew better that 6 quarts is overfilling them.
So are the engines really that different? Yes and no. They put out, on paper, the same horsepower and torque, in the JK Wrangler, for instance. That makes people think they are the same. The Pentastar Upgrade, or PUG, has a completely redesigned top end. Even though similar, it has been described by FCA engineers as all new and even Mark Allen, the JL Wrangler's chief designer, said it absolutely requires 0w20. The PUG has significantly reduced internal friction, according to Allen, and produces around 15% more torque at lower rpm's, even though the peak stays the same. It is clearly a flatter torque curve and you can feel it if you drive them back to back, which I've done in similar Rubicons. The PUG is noticeably stronger at certain places in the powerband, but it isn't by much. The engines sound and feel the same in normal driving. The fact my JL Rubicon, even with 35" tires, can get 21.5 mpg is significant evidence this engine is different. When traveling with two 2 door JK's with Pentastars, which were lighter and had the same size tires and final drive gearing, we saw nearly a 4mpg difference in gas mileage over 2000+ miles of driving the same trip together. Folks, that's not the 20 weight oil, that's a redesigned engine. (Ok, the aero is supposed to be better with the JL, but it isn't 4mpg better.)
I hope that helps clear up some of the confusion between these two generations of the Pentastar.
The newer Pentastar Upgrade has confused the heck out of even the dealerships, many of whose techs have gone so far as to argue with customers who knew better that 6 quarts is overfilling them.
So are the engines really that different? Yes and no. They put out, on paper, the same horsepower and torque, in the JK Wrangler, for instance. That makes people think they are the same. The Pentastar Upgrade, or PUG, has a completely redesigned top end. Even though similar, it has been described by FCA engineers as all new and even Mark Allen, the JL Wrangler's chief designer, said it absolutely requires 0w20. The PUG has significantly reduced internal friction, according to Allen, and produces around 15% more torque at lower rpm's, even though the peak stays the same. It is clearly a flatter torque curve and you can feel it if you drive them back to back, which I've done in similar Rubicons. The PUG is noticeably stronger at certain places in the powerband, but it isn't by much. The engines sound and feel the same in normal driving. The fact my JL Rubicon, even with 35" tires, can get 21.5 mpg is significant evidence this engine is different. When traveling with two 2 door JK's with Pentastars, which were lighter and had the same size tires and final drive gearing, we saw nearly a 4mpg difference in gas mileage over 2000+ miles of driving the same trip together. Folks, that's not the 20 weight oil, that's a redesigned engine. (Ok, the aero is supposed to be better with the JL, but it isn't 4mpg better.)
I hope that helps clear up some of the confusion between these two generations of the Pentastar.
For caution, yeah, go ahead and stick with MS6395 if you want. You can't go wrong. I just prefer the M1 EP/AP. In all the Jeep forums in which I've participated, I've not seen one single case of a warranty claim being denied because of the use of Mobil 1 or any other non-MS6395 rated oil.
I think that spec is low hanging fruit compared to Dexos 1 Gen 2 or others, but FCA keeps it from Mobil 1 for political reasons. A Mobil 1 rep told me the fact they did allow Supersyn to have it is proof they view M1 as an arch rival to their their good friends at Shell.
The language in some FCA manuals indicates that the proper API approval is the real requirement.
As for me, it would be hard for FCA to deny a warranty claim for use of M1 because the Jeep/Ram/Dodge/Chrysler dealership where I purchased mine offers premium oil changes with M1.
I think that spec is low hanging fruit compared to Dexos 1 Gen 2 or others, but FCA keeps it from Mobil 1 for political reasons. A Mobil 1 rep told me the fact they did allow Supersyn to have it is proof they view M1 as an arch rival to their their good friends at Shell.
The language in some FCA manuals indicates that the proper API approval is the real requirement.
As for me, it would be hard for FCA to deny a warranty claim for use of M1 because the Jeep/Ram/Dodge/Chrysler dealership where I purchased mine offers premium oil changes with M1.
Last edited:
Our Wrangler Pentastar is a little older but it seems happiest on QSUD.
Originally Posted by IndyFan
Again, just to be clear, the 2017 and up Grand Cherokee and the 2018+ JL (Not 2018 JK, but JL) Wrangler, and the Gladiator, 100% for certain, have the Pentastar Upgrade that specifies 5 quarts of 0w20. It never had, even overseas, a weight specification greater than 20. The previous generations of t The fact my JL Rubicon, even with 35" tires, can get 21.5 mpg is significant evidence this engine is different. When traveling with two 2 door JK's with Pentastars, which were lighter and had the same size tires and final drive gearing, we saw nearly a 4mpg difference in gas mileage over 2000+ miles of driving the same trip together. Folks, that's not the 20 weight oil, that's a redesigned engine. (Ok, the aero is supposed to be better with the JL, but it isn't 4mpg better.)
I hope that helps clear up some of the confusion between these two generations of the Pentastar.
FTR I'm sure you already know this. I'm not sure if you're talking 6 speed stick, which the JK and JL have. The JL 6 speed is not the same as the JK 6 speed, it is supposed to be an improvement. With regard to the automatic, the JK uses the NAG1 5 speed, the JL the ZF 8 speed. I'm pretty sure that would account for most of that 4 mpg difference.
Again, just to be clear, the 2017 and up Grand Cherokee and the 2018+ JL (Not 2018 JK, but JL) Wrangler, and the Gladiator, 100% for certain, have the Pentastar Upgrade that specifies 5 quarts of 0w20. It never had, even overseas, a weight specification greater than 20. The previous generations of t The fact my JL Rubicon, even with 35" tires, can get 21.5 mpg is significant evidence this engine is different. When traveling with two 2 door JK's with Pentastars, which were lighter and had the same size tires and final drive gearing, we saw nearly a 4mpg difference in gas mileage over 2000+ miles of driving the same trip together. Folks, that's not the 20 weight oil, that's a redesigned engine. (Ok, the aero is supposed to be better with the JL, but it isn't 4mpg better.)
I hope that helps clear up some of the confusion between these two generations of the Pentastar.
FTR I'm sure you already know this. I'm not sure if you're talking 6 speed stick, which the JK and JL have. The JL 6 speed is not the same as the JK 6 speed, it is supposed to be an improvement. With regard to the automatic, the JK uses the NAG1 5 speed, the JL the ZF 8 speed. I'm pretty sure that would account for most of that 4 mpg difference.
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Thanks for the input. The new JLU with the 8 speed is so much better than my JKU 5 speed set up. The JL is peppier and more quiet. It is almost a day and night difference. The manual does call for 5 quarts, which is great! I can now just buy a 5 qt jug and not have to buy the extra sixth qt. I will get the oil changed at the dealership but I always provide the oil and filter. In my JK, I used either a NAPA gold or Fram Ultra. I will continue to use one of those filters.
Jackson_Slugger
$50 Site Donor 2022
Originally Posted by ls973800
Originally Posted by Jackson_Slugger
^^ What he said, use RGT 0W-20 (assuming it meets the spec) with the ongoing rebate and check AutoZone if you have any near you...
Unless the rebate has been extended for a DIY purchase, the offer expired on 12/31/19 If you have it changed at a participating location you can get up to $10.00 of your next change, valid offer until 1/31/20
Shell Oil Rebate/Savings Offers
It's a seperate, new rebate. See this thread: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...otella-truck-suv-18-5-qt-jug#Post5319550
To the OP if you have a TSC store, they have a great sale on...
Originally Posted by Jackson_Slugger
^^ What he said, use RGT 0W-20 (assuming it meets the spec) with the ongoing rebate and check AutoZone if you have any near you...
Unless the rebate has been extended for a DIY purchase, the offer expired on 12/31/19 If you have it changed at a participating location you can get up to $10.00 of your next change, valid offer until 1/31/20
Shell Oil Rebate/Savings Offers
It's a seperate, new rebate. See this thread: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...otella-truck-suv-18-5-qt-jug#Post5319550
To the OP if you have a TSC store, they have a great sale on...
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