Smallest Oil Pan? (Mine = 2.4 quarts)

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Originally posted by troy_heagy: My Honda Insight's 1.0 liter engine has a 2.4 quart pan. Just wondering if any other car had a smaller pan? Troy
My lawnmower has a 1 quart sump [LOL!] ..I must be old..what's a Insight?
 
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Look at it this way ...per liter of displacement ...you're ahead of the rest of the motoring public [Big Grin] Heck ..you're up there with me (9.5 quarts for a 4.0 Jeep). Isn't the Insight the hybrid?? I think it uses the engine as the primary powerplant using the electric as a booster for accelleration and then syphons off power to recharge the batteries. So ...I guess it would be basically a really small engine with electric boost. [ May 25, 2003, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
 
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Originally posted by Gary Allan: Isn't the Insight the hybrid?? You actually run off of electric and have the engine provide the generation power (or recharge power if you're in a coast situation) ....but not directly???
Not quite. It is a hybrid, but works like this: It's a highly efficient 1 liter gasoline powered inline 3. (VTEC-E) In place of the flywheel is an electric motor that kicks in when the car needs a little more power. The electric motor runs off a stack of NiMH batteries in the trunk. The engine can keep the batteries charged. While the car is braking, the electric motor uses "regenerative braking" to keep the batteries charged. And the electric motor acts as the starter motor. When the car is stopped at a red light (tranny in neutral, foot off clutch), the gasoline engine cuts off, and then comes back on when you press the clutch. Those are the main highlights of how it works. They did some major weight saving tricks on that car, it's 1800-1900 lbs. The oil pan is Magnesium, and considering it is only a 1 liter engine, 2.4qts sounds like plenty. [Smile] [ May 25, 2003, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: acranox ]
 
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The electric starts it off the line from a dead stop right? If you have the electric motor running all the time I guess that would mean less oil contamination. How long can you go between oil changes on those cars?
 
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Not quite. It is a hybrid, but works like this:
I just called my son's friend (who has one) between my editing and your post ...hence I got a short lesson. Sounds like a great vehicle ...but @ 295 lb. I don't think it's the vehicle for me [Big Grin]
 

Jay

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The sump seems very small even for the engine size. Most 600cc motorcycles have 3L sumps or larger. But then, you're not making nearly as much horsepower as they are.
 

troy_heagy

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Originally posted by Gary Allan: Isn't the Insight the hybrid?? I think it uses the engine as the primary powerplant using the electric as a booster for accelleration and then syphons off power to recharge the batteries. So ...I guess it would be basically a really small engine with electric boost.
100% correct. Oil drain is 7500 miles maximum. Troy
 
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I wish they would have taken the route of an electric train and turned it into 100% electric drive with an internal combustion engine to *charge* the batteries or capacitors. When they do that, I'll look into getting one. Oh and I want mine to be a small diesel too, not small gasoline. [Cheers!] my oil pan is 5qts for my 3.8L V6, not small at all. My Tacoma held 6qts for a 3.4L V6, huge!
 

troy_heagy

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Huh? I can not parse your sentence. Well anyway, don't overfill your pan. It will cause hydrolock which will (1) decrease MPGs or (2) destroy your engine.
quote:
Originally posted by Dominic: I wish they...turned it into 100% electric drive with an internal combustion engine to *charge* the batteries or capacitors.
I'm glad they didn't. Burning gasoline, converting it to electric, storing it chemically (battery), and then converting it back to electric is very inefficient. Better to burn the gasoline and use it directly to the wheels. Troy
 
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Originally posted by Hankster: I think my old '72 Volkswagen bettle had a 2 Quart oil sump. No oil filter. Hank
The old air-cooled VW's had 2.5, and yes, no filter. Those cars were well under 2000lbs, but not very efficient by today's standards, 27mpg. Why do they need to make and expensive and complex hybrid at all? If that 1L engine has at least 60hp on its own, then that is all you need for a car that light and aerodynamic. You would get the same mpg or better and the car would not cost so much.
 
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[Off Topic!] If they ditched the electric part of it and put in a slightly bigger gas engine to compensate they'd have a lighter car that gets the same highway mileage and almost the same city mileage, and it would be very affordable instead of ridiculously expensive. So what's the point?
 
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quote:
Originally posted by troy_heagy: Huh? I can not parse your sentence. Well anyway, don't overfill your pan. It will cause hydrolock which will (1) decrease MPGs or (2) destroy your engine.
quote:
Originally posted by Dominic: I wish they...turned it into 100% electric drive with an internal combustion engine to *charge* the batteries or capacitors.
I'm glad they didn't. Burning gasoline, converting it to electric, storing it chemically (battery), and then converting it back to electric is very inefficient. Better to burn the gasoline and use it directly to the wheels. Troy

However a steady state diesel engine is FAR more efficient than trying to run a gasoline engine in multiple RPMs to propel the car! The loss of conversion to electric energy and back is nothing like the loss of an internal combustion engine running multiple RPMs. Also, with this, they could run a very tiny steadystate diesel... 200cc or so, and have plenty of power capability with 100+mpg. I had to design a fuel efficient go-kart a few semesters ago, many people took the insight approach and I took my approach. I used a 150cc diesel engine, a bank of capacitors (lighter weight), one electric motor, and a simple drivetrain. My go-kart had nearly double the fuel economy of most others [Smile]
 

troy_heagy

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Originally posted by rpn453: [Off Topic!] If they ditched the electric part of it and put in a slightly bigger gas engine to compensate they'd have a lighter car that gets the same highway mileage and almost the same city mileage, and it would be very affordable instead of ridiculously expensive. So what's the point?
I don't know. Your paragraph doesn't make much sense. Removing the electric motor/installing a larger engine would cause lower MPGs for the Insight. So you're paragraphic does not make much sense to me. Perhaps you can explain it?
 

troy_heagy

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Originally posted by Dominic: However a steady state diesel engine is FAR more efficient than trying to run a gasoline engine in multiple RPMs to propel the car! The loss of conversion to electric energy and back is nothing like the loss of an internal combustion engine running multiple RPMs.
Diesel eh? The I revise my statement: "I'm glad they didn't. Burning [diesel], converting it to electric, storing it chemically (battery), and then converting it back to electric is very inefficient. Better to burn the [diesel] and use it directly to the wheels." Eliminating conversion losses will produce better results. I base that opinion on my Insight which gets its highest MPGs when I do *not* use the electric portion. Troy
 
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Our diahatsu Mira has a 660cc motor and a 2.3L oil requirement (incls filter). Fuel economy running around town between 5.1 -5.6 L/100km. Something like 50-55mpg. I wonder too the benefit of electric / petrol hybrids. Very expensive and I think the only ones here in Oz buying them are Govt Depts. Very few sold. Resale value almost non existant. Seen designs/ production of small diesels (maybe Mercedes?) with great fuel economy. eg 2-3L/100k.
 

troy_heagy

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We are having a debate about that very topic (does the electric motor help MPGs?) here: tdiclub The most fuel-efficient car in the world is the Volkswagen Lupo "3L" which 90 mpg on the highway. It's a 45hp diesel. Volkswagen also has a 2-seat spacecar that gets 240mpg, but that's not for sale. (Bummer. I'd like to buy one!) Troy [ May 28, 2003, 06:00 AM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]
 
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