"Sludger" engine change intervals

[ledslinger]

I have a 2000 Concorde with the dreaded 2.7 engine, which has a rep as a sludger.

I got it with 60K on it and have used Chevron Supreme, Schaeffer 7000, and Castrol Edge. Has almost 70K on it, 3K on the Castrol Edge. My next change is GC.

The wisdom on these motors is quick intervals of sythetic oil. A peek in the oil cap indicates my engine is very clean inside. As clean as most of the clean engine photos posted on this forum.

Known sludger, still clean, very well maintained, easy usage engine. How far do you suggest I go with quality synthetics?

 

[znode]

I suggest there isn't a need. 3k dino should be fine for any sludger.

 

[BigNick]

I have the 2.7L in my Sebring. Not necessarily a sludger in this vehicle but still a concern to me as I will drive the car till it goes to car heaven.
I stock up with Synthetic Oil when there are some really good deals (usually with rebates). Change the oil ever 5500Km (3400 miles).
Had the car since new. Did 5000km (3000mile) OCI with Dealer bulk till about 120,000km. Switched to synthetic and now has 155,000km. I've used PP, Q-Torque, Q-Horsepower, and now Synpower.

Key thing is to check the oil level! Top off as necessary.
I think you'll be fine up to 4,000miles with any synthetic. Many will chime in and say even that's overkill, but it's your car, and peace of mind. (and this site is great for synthetic deals). Spending an extra 5 to 10 dollars for synthetic is well worth it in my opinion.

 

[ekpolk]

Strictly in the case of a known sludgemaker, I'd suggest relatively short OCIs with a good quality synthetic oil. Very obviously, not all engines need the expanded performance envelope of a good syn, but if your engine pushes boundaries with temperatures, shear, contamination, or some combo of all three, then perhaps you need to be careful about oil choice. Znode, it's easy to recommend the use of a basic oil in a challenging engine -- if you don't own one. Are you a sludge-era 1MZ (or Chrysler 2.7) owner? If not, I would not be so casual in advising others to lower their guard with their sludge-prone engines.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: ledslinger
I have a 2000 Concorde with the dreaded 2.7 engine, which has a rep as a sludger.

I got it with 60K on it and have used Chevron Supreme, Schaeffer 7000, and Castrol Edge. Has almost 70K on it, 3K on the Castrol Edge. My next change is GC.

The wisdom on these motors is quick intervals of sythetic oil. A peek in the oil cap indicates my engine is very clean inside. As clean as most of the clean engine photos posted on this forum.

Known sludger, still clean, very well maintained, easy usage engine. How far do you suggest I go with quality synthetics?


For a known sludger, I would go 6-7k/12mo with regular synthetics such as M1, PP, Synpower ... and 9-10k/12mo with extended drain synthetics Castrol Edge, M1 EP, Pennzoil Ultra ...

 

[znode]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Strictly in the case of a known sludgemaker, I'd suggest relatively short OCIs with a good quality synthetic oil. Very obviously, not all engines need the expanded performance envelope of a good syn, but if your engine pushes boundaries with temperatures, shear, contamination, or some combo of all three, then perhaps you need to be careful about oil choice. Znode, it's easy to recommend the use of a basic oil in a challenging engine -- if you don't own one. Are you a sludge-era 1MZ (or Chrysler 2.7) owner? If not, I would not be so casual in advising others to lower their guard with their sludge-prone engines.


Ah, the old "I don't want to hear facts, you're not qualified" attack. Well, I'm a sludge 5SFE owner, but that doesn't matter, facts do. This is an oil forum, after all.

Any modern baseline starburst oil must have, by any standard only a few decades ago, an absurd amount of detergency and sludge protection. As oil is contaminated and oxidized it is immediately pulled into the base oil by detergents. Top-shelf synthetic or Super Tech, no new sludge formation on an already clean engine is possible before the oil is fully saturated of its detergency. Having a quality synthetic will protect you for longer, but absolutely not better.

In that regard, show me a sludged engine made in the last 15 years maintained with 3k starburst OCIs, and I'll show you a unicorn.

 

[ZZman]

Syn Oil.

5,000 mile changes

Keep eye on coolant level

Make sure it has newer designed PCV valve.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: znode
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Strictly in the case of a known sludgemaker, I'd suggest relatively short OCIs with a good quality synthetic oil. Very obviously, not all engines need the expanded performance envelope of a good syn, but if your engine pushes boundaries with temperatures, shear, contamination, or some combo of all three, then perhaps you need to be careful about oil choice. Znode, it's easy to recommend the use of a basic oil in a challenging engine -- if you don't own one. Are you a sludge-era 1MZ (or Chrysler 2.7) owner? If not, I would not be so casual in advising others to lower their guard with their sludge-prone engines.


Ah, the old "I don't want to hear facts, you're not qualified" attack. Well, I'm a sludge 5SFE owner, but that doesn't matter, facts do. This is an oil forum, after all.

Any modern baseline starburst oil must have, by any standard only a few decades ago, an absurd amount of detergency and sludge protection. As oil is contaminated and oxidized it is immediately pulled into the base oil by detergents. Top-shelf synthetic or Super Tech, no new sludge formation on an already clean engine is possible before the oil is fully saturated of its detergency. Having a quality synthetic will protect you for longer, but absolutely not better.

In that regard, show me a sludged engine made in the last 15 years maintained with 3k starburst OCIs, and I'll show you a unicorn.


Easy there, unicorn dude. If you'd taken the time to actually and carefully read the previous posts, you might have noticed that I too have been a "sludgemaker" owner. That said, I'm not so confident that ALL such cars are automatically immune from the problem if only the owner just follows basic rules. You may do what you wish with your vehicle, but if I still owned one, I'd prefer to keep a fat margin between myself and my engine and a sludge problem. When I was still driving a 1MZ car, I simply didn't care about spending a few extra dollars per ~5qt oil change so that I could be SURE that my otherwise superb engine was not killing itself by killing its own oil. Again, you do whatever floats your boat.

 

[chet2]

i would go 6k on synthetic or dino

 

[bmwtechguy]

My brother-in-law went 6-7000 miles on dino or whatever the dealer was using and had a perfectly sludged up Avalon V6 by 135k miles. Engine was choked out and oil screen plugged shut. He may have missed one oil change as well at some point, according to him. So, my point is, ignore foolish advice to use conventional oil for anything beyond 3000 miles on a sludgemaker. That's just plain bad advice, in my experience.

My friend's sister has a 2000 Camry V6 and has had a continuous record of oil changes at 5-7000 miles using synthetic oil. Currently, it has Castrol Edge in there and the plan is to change at around 7000 miles. This has got to be the most quiet engine I have ever heard. The tire guy at Sams even commented on how quiet it ran, and with 120k+ miles.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
My brother-in-law went 6-7000 miles on dino or whatever the dealer was using and had a perfectly sludged up Avalon V6 by 135k miles. Engine was choked out and oil screen plugged shut. He may have missed one oil change as well at some point, according to him. So, my point is, ignore foolish advice to use conventional oil for anything beyond 3000 miles on a sludgemaker. That's just plain bad advice, in my experience.

My friend's sister has a 2000 Camry V6 and has had a continuous record of oil changes at 5-7000 miles using synthetic oil. Currently, it has Castrol Edge in there and the plan is to change at around 7000 miles. This has got to be the most quiet engine I have ever heard. The tire guy at Sams even commented on how quiet it ran, and with 120k+ miles.


I would (and did) only use synthetics in my two 1MZ engines, even though the second one was made well after the end of the sludge vulnerability era. Yep, say what you will about its one unfortunate, yet important, weak spot, the MZ series engines are absurdly smooth and quiet. I loved both of mine (and my care of them reflected that).

 

[fdcg27]

Good example.
I think you also wrote of all of the work you did to clean up BIL's Avalon, as well as how it met its demise, and your BIL's attempt to stiff you on your labor.
Anyway, if I owned a known sludger, I'd spend the few extra pence to use at least a Grp III every time, and I'd not run any oil past 5K.
Heck, I'd probably do 3K changes.
Alternatively,I wonder if a HDEO, like Rotella T5, would be a good pick?
The consequences of neglect in a known sludger are simply too great, while the cost of avoiding those consequences is minimal.

 

[sangyup81]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Good example.
I think you also wrote of all of the work you did to clean up BIL's Avalon, as well as how it met its demise, and your BIL's attempt to stiff you on your labor.
Anyway, if I owned a known sludger, I'd spend the few extra pence to use at least a Grp III every time, and I'd not run any oil past 5K.
Heck, I'd probably do 3K changes.
Alternatively,I wonder if a HDEO, like Rotella T5, would be a good pick?
The consequences of neglect in a known sludger are simply too great, while the cost of avoiding those consequences is minimal.


I like the T5 in my brother's 5s-fe!

 

[ChiTDI]

Originally Posted By: ledslinger
I have a 2000 Concorde with the dreaded 2.7 engine, which has a rep as a sludger.

I got it with 60K on it and have used Chevron Supreme, Schaeffer 7000, and Castrol Edge. Has almost 70K on it, 3K on the Castrol Edge. My next change is GC.

The wisdom on these motors is quick intervals of sythetic oil. A peek in the oil cap indicates my engine is very clean inside. As clean as most of the clean engine photos posted on this forum.

Known sludger, still clean, very well maintained, easy usage engine. How far do you suggest I go with quality synthetics?



I've gone 130k with 5k OCI using GC in a Toyota sludger. Frequent PCV valve changes and keep a watchful eye on the coolant.

 

[dishdude]

If I had this 2000 Concorde with the 2.7, I would go 3k on a quality synthetic. Maybe run a UOA if you think it is overkill?

Supposedly they fixed some of the issues in 2001, and a few more in 2004, so you have the worst design of this engine that there was. Even after the 2001 "fix" I still see a ton for sale with less than 100k and blown engines.

I'd be very interested to see a UOA on a 3k run of a good synthetic.

 

[JCCADILLACMOBILE]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Good example.
I think you also wrote of all of the work you did to clean up BIL's Avalon, as well as how it met its demise, and your BIL's attempt to stiff you on your labor.
Anyway, if I owned a known sludger, I'd spend the few extra pence to use at least a Grp III every time, and I'd not run any oil past 5K.
Heck, I'd probably do 3K changes.
Alternatively,I wonder if a HDEO, like Rotella T5, would be a good pick?
The consequences of neglect in a known sludger are simply too great, while the cost of avoiding those consequences is minimal.


I concur.

I also seem to recall that an Indication of Sludge is "Black" or Very Dark oil within the first 1000 miles...

Idd Add MMO, put SeaFoam in 100 miles before OCI, and yes go 3000 miles on a "Sludger" OR Sludged Engine. Particularly if it makes the Oil dark fast.. even if it "Runs Smooth," it could be really badd inside.

I also believe in not checking, as "ssume it is Bad and Change Oil every 3k accordingly," Based on what your Dipstick says..

Interestingly enough, if it doesnt reallly consume...

But yeah. id LOVE to go more than 3k, but if youre not sure.. Play it Safe.

 

[ledslinger]

ZZman- Newer design PCV valve? How would I recognize that? It has fancy PCV plumbing with a manifold and I assume a condensate drain to the coolant tank. The PCV valve stays like new.

Supposedly they fixed some of the issues in 2001, and a few more in 2004, so you have the worst design of this engine that there was.

Dishdude- Do you know what changes were made in 2001 and 2004?

 

[rewote500]

I have the same engine in a Dodge Intrepid. I use Mobil 1 at 5K OCI and the engine is spotless at 156K miles. Had valve cover gaskets replaced recently and it was sparkling clean. Just now went to changing every 6 months with Mobil 1 regardless of mileage.

 

[ledslinger]

ZZman- Newer design PCV valve? How would I recognize that? It has fancy PCV plumbing with a manifold and I assume a condensate drain to the coolant tank. The PCV valve stays like new.

I thought a bit about my PCV plumbing and I suppose it has coolant flowing through a heat exchanger to prevent condensation.

 

[CharBaby]

Wife and I are the owners of an 01 RX-300 1MZ motor with 67,000 miles on the clock. Although I haven't pulled the valve cover, I beleive there is no sludge in this engine. I have changed the oil/filter at no more than 5,000 OCI's.
Dino for the first 10-11,000 miles then 3qts of syn with 2qts of dino for a couple of years SL/GF-3, now it 2qts syn w/ 3qts dino since SM/GF-4. All oils(both syn/dino) have been held in high reguard here at BITOG/too many brands to name.
Oil is never black when I change it even at the longer OCI's such as 5,000 miles, which could take 8 months. Low miles on all of our vehicles(3 cars always and a 4th if I get the itch)! So, many cars and not alot of distance to drive as we live near everything(friends/family, shopping/grocery/mall, work).
Kids are gone and no more trevel sports, school events and long distance driving family vacations. We do travel but, now we fly and rent a car because where we'er going, it's too far to drive these days.
I've always been concerned about the sludge issues with these motors so I have been diligent with maintenance. RX runs great!